Toyota "Preparing" Hotter Supra GRMN, Says Chief Engineer

PerformanceSound

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I can't understand how you're an engineer.
Simple, I went to school and got a degree. You?

Talking to an imbecile like yourself on a internet forum doesn't determine my qualifications as an engineer....but I'm sure your internet-based education taught you that right?
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jm6k

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Simple, I went to school and got a degree. You?
Same here. I thought I was special, but I guess anyone can do it.

You're asking someone to prove that something does not exist when the only evidence that it does exist is that you say that it does. The burden of proof is on you. How a college education has not taught you that is just a bit surprising.

I'm not saying that you're wrong as it seems clear that something more is happening, I'm just pointing out your interesting standpoint on how if something cannot be proven untrue then it must be true.
 

PerformanceSound

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Same here. I thought I was special, but I guess anyone can do it.

You're asking someone to prove that something does not exist when the only evidence that it does exist is that you say that it does. The burden of proof is on you. How a college education has not taught you that is just a bit surprising.

I'm not saying that you're wrong as it seems clear that something more is happening, I'm just pointing out your interesting standpoint on how if something cannot be proven untrue then it must be true.
...right, so when did I say it was true??? I said, “from my source, this is what I have heard.” I never said anything definitive, however, all information I had received from my source up to this point have been true and internal folks like A70TTR even mentioned the same things after I had brought them up. I even said “I don’t know what the serialized cars are for.” Racing, street, etc...??? I too am waiting to find out. I was told that something special was on the racecar at the autoshow, and to keep a close eye on it. Not sure what that was, but I will be in Detroit this weekend, so I am going to take a “closer” look myself.

The problem is everyone is so anxious to see this car fail, that they are not realizing the negative effects it can have and may lead to the manufacturer not even pursuing higher performance models for the US market. This is not some “urban legend”, it really happens....manufacturers can hold grudges worse than you think.
 

Daigor

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The only issue I see with the future GRMN models is the price. The base car should've started around $45K for what it is.

Sure, the future models will be amazing and probably offer a pure driving experience but I can only imagine what the pricing for those models will be. $50-70k range offers a lot of amazing cars from more "prestigious" brands and then on top of that you have BMW sourced parts so it does not offer the good old Toyota reliability that makes people buy these cars over German competition.

The R35 was significantly cheaper compared to all the rivals. The GR Supra not so much.
The GTR released in 2008 at a MSRP of $68,950 for base model. Each year after there was a considerable $4-6K increase in price. Today in 2019 The MSRP GTR starts at $99,990.

The one thing that concerns me is that Gazoo Racing Team does release a GRMN Supra but as far as performance it stays the same @335hp. The only difference is the Styling and look of the car. If you look at Toyota's track record with the FT-86 since its launch the HP has remained pretty much the same with maybe 5hp increase @205hp. If you look at the GRMN FT-86 specs the power was only increased by 15hp. It seems that all Toyota is relying on to sell their cars is the look and NOT performance which everyone wants.
 

Modal170

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The GTR released in 2008 at a MSRP of $68,950 for base model. Each year after there was a considerable $4-6K increase in price. Today in 2019 The MSRP GTR starts at $99,990.

The one thing that concerns me is that Gazoo Racing Team does release a GRMN Supra but as far as performance it stays the same @335hp. The only difference is the Styling and look of the car. If you look at Toyota's track record with the FT-86 since its launch the HP has remained pretty much the same with maybe 5hp increase @205hp. If you look at the GRMN FT-86 specs the power was only increased by 15hp. It seems that all Toyota is relying on to sell their cars is the look and NOT performance which everyone wants.
You can't use a cheap model relying on its chassis and fun factor with a manual to Toyota's true halo sports car and the first toyota to come to the states with a GR Badge, the GRMN team known on a global level and sticking a big middle finger to TRD.

I would also imagine the collab is far different with BMW than Subaru regarding Toyota's involvement
 

PerformanceSound

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The GTR released in 2008 at a MSRP of $68,950 for base model. Each year after there was a considerable $4-6K increase in price. Today in 2019 The MSRP GTR starts at $99,990.

The one thing that concerns me is that Gazoo Racing Team does release a GRMN Supra but as far as performance it stays the same @335hp. The only difference is the Styling and look of the car. If you look at Toyota's track record with the FT-86 since its launch the HP has remained pretty much the same with maybe 5hp increase @205hp. If you look at the GRMN FT-86 specs the power was only increased by 15hp. It seems that all Toyota is relying on to sell their cars is the look and NOT performance which everyone wants.
A Supra that "we" all want won't be cheap, let's just get that straight. Even if Toyota restarted their production of the MKIV exactly the same way it was in the 90's it would yield a $70k+ car....not even fully loaded because of material production and such. I think what everyone is "stuck" on or having a hard time understanding, is that the Supra we all saw at the Detroit Auto Show is one of a few models to hit production....not the only one. Toyota would be out of their mind to think that for the price, this is all they will offer. Sharing a BMW chassis and block for example from a Z4 isn't a bad thing....because I guarantee you 'WHEN' the GR team develops a revised head, internals, etc... everyone will be in awe and will eat their words later. Take it from someone who was completely against this collaboration...

Think about it, the car has been in R&D for 10 years....10 years!! There are other versions of this car with different hardware that will be available. Otherwise, I agree...it will not do well.....and Toyota knows that. Will there be a "GTR Killer?" No...and I don't think any Japanese manufacturer will even attempt that from now on, because Nissan has made it clear they will not let the GTR step down from the pedestal. Honestly though, do you want a "GTR Killer" for "GTR Killer" money? If so, a MKV Supra would hardly be the choice of car. Think long term, something very flexible in tuning and durability. That's why I keep saying, think MKIV TT 6spd, but of today.

People need to be patient, this isn't an overnight affair....the car was unveiled less than a week ago.
 

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The GTR released in 2008 at a MSRP of $68,950 for base model. Each year after there was a considerable $4-6K increase in price. Today in 2019 The MSRP GTR starts at $99,990.

The one thing that concerns me is that Gazoo Racing Team does release a GRMN Supra but as far as performance it stays the same @335hp. The only difference is the Styling and look of the car. If you look at Toyota's track record with the FT-86 since its launch the HP has remained pretty much the same with maybe 5hp increase @205hp. If you look at the GRMN FT-86 specs the power was only increased by 15hp. It seems that all Toyota is relying on to sell their cars is the look and NOT performance which everyone wants.
But here's the thing, the 86 can keep up with cars that have 2x the HP with only a tightened suspension
 

PerformanceSound

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But here's the thing, the 86 can keep up with cars that have 2x the HP with only a tightened suspension
Exactly!

If Toyota or Subaru put a 300hp engine in a GT-86, the audience they are aiming for would not have the financial means to buy it. a 300HP BRZ/GT-86 would do a few things to the overall cost or buying and owning. Purchase price would spike and insurance rates would probably double. Making the car unattainable to the audience Toyota and Subaru were aiming for. Same with the MKV, they kept HP lower for other reasons, and focused on lightweight and handling because they know more power can be had down the line. However, if they made a 500hp MKV Supra, the people Toyota is aiming for, would not be able to afford it. Look at the demographics of MKIV owners (primarily age)....they are not same demographic as Corvette, Viper, or GTR owners. That is why Dodge can make a 600HP+ Viper, and Chevy can make a 600HP+ Vette, etc... The audience is different.

Focus on long term tunability....it is what will make the MKV Supra stand out.
 

Bryster

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Exactly!

If Toyota or Subaru put a 300hp engine in a GT-86, the audience they are aiming for would not have the financial means to buy it. a 300HP BRZ/GT-86 would do a few things to the overall cost or buying and owning. Purchase price would spike and insurance rates would probably double. Making the car unattainable to the audience Toyota and Subaru were aiming for. Same with the MKV, they kept HP lower for other reasons, and focused on lightweight and handling because they know more power can be had down the line. However, if they made a 500hp MKV Supra, the people Toyota is aiming for, would not be able to afford it. Look at the demographics of MKIV owners (primarily age)....they are not same demographic as Corvette, Viper, or GTR owners. That is why Dodge can make a 600HP+ Viper, and Chevy can make a 600HP+ Vette, etc... The audience is different.

Focus on long term tunability....it is what will make the MKV Supra stand out.
Same goes for the 720S and the 911
 
 




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