Toyota Supra to be launched in 2019 under Gazoo performance brand GR / GRMN related topics

[soundman414]

"The Supra will be by Gazoo," stated Shigeki Tomoyama, the man in charge of the sub-brand, while Akio Toyoda himself insisted that the new Supra needed to be more aggressive than what was originally planned, a conclusion he arrived at after driving a pre-production model."

This indicates that a possible reason for the delay was the re-definition of the performance benchmarks. The statements clearly show that the Supra was initially intended to aim at a more low-level performance, something that changed later on during development. This was based on the fact that the CEO wants to attract the classic Supra audience having in mind the 3.0; Twin Turbo RWD JZA80.
Something similar happened with the Honda NSX as well during development. Initially intended to be an FR V10 NA platform, then changed to its current layout with a 3.5V6 NA , then performance wasnt satisfying and went on turbocharging.
This can only be good. I would be dissapointed if i saw a Toyota badged Z4. This seems to have changed....

My fear has been that these legacy icons are being reborn without the built reputation they need to go upmarket, and the NSX proved to be a perfect example. It is a magnificent piece of quality engineering, fast and pretty good looking... But it's not selling well. There are a few reasons behind this, and some of the big concerns for buyers that spend that sort of cash, is prestige, collectibility, value retention, social status, exoticness, etc. No one yearns for a new $150k NSX, instead, they'd want a Ferrari or Porsche — both of whom have received almost non-stop praise for the last 15 years and have steadily and iteratively improved upon their cars to the craze worthy status they have now. No one feels the new NSX will greatly go up in value, or that it will be a rare car that people lust for. It also doesn't scream exotic, especially if you looked inside. For these reasons and more, the NSX didn't live up to the expectations Honda/Acura set out to meet. Had they focused on a $50-60k car, that the everyday person could obtain with hard work, and it delivered on performance, we would be having a very different impression of the NSX.

The same can be said for the Supra now, with it being out of the minds and garages of people for almost 20 years — it has a reputation to rebuild. Very few people would consider a $70k+ Supra, even if it was given the best praise from every auto journalist out there (just look at the Alfa 4C). If you are going to buy a car that costs that much, you buy something that has the aforementioned qualities that can't be engineered, only earned; prestige, collectibility, value retention, social status and exoticness. These qualities come with time and are earned through continuous improvements and reaffirmations of those qualities through a variety of mediums.

Toyota needs a Porsche 996 moment to relaunch the Supra name with a value proposition to gain market share and the hearts of enthusiasts, and then they can march upmarket. The higher they try to place this car in the echelons of performance icons, the harder it is to sell this as a first offering. I also find it hard to believe that Toyota wants another super low production performance car in their lineup — as the 86 has proven that Toyota isn't willing to fix major shortcomings of a car to sell it better (e.g. power, non-Prius tires, etc), and proves that journalist praise can only go so far in selling a product.

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[Craigy]

NSX just got a $30k factory incentive, on top of whatever dealer discount you can negotiate, so hopefully those sales will spark up a bit. A few guys on NSXprime are reporting discounts $50-$60k off. Sounds promising.

IMO it would be more exciting for Toyota to release a high-po model with a bigger pricetag to start, and then wait until the next model year or so to roll out a cheaper, slower trim level. Other manufacturers have done that for awhile and it seems to work for them. The alternative is to debut with the underwhelming cheaper car, have poor sales, which causes the overly conservative japs to throw in the towel and say that the sales don't justify a higher performance model, and life goes on as if the car never really existed.

Being a Toyota and not a premium brand, sure they'd have a hard time justifying $70k, $80k, though Nissan does it and their marque carries a lot less weight than Toyota, and Toyota does it itself with the land cruiser. I hate using the C-word, but Corvette offers a ton of performance for just mid 50s, and even more impressive performance for not much more money in grand sport and z06. No reason Toyota couldn't be successful doing something similar with Supra.

This car was supposed to be a half price Porsche 911 from the start. That's what we should get. Waited this long, might as well wait awhile longer.

 

[mas921]

NSX just got a $30k factory incentive, on top of whatever dealer discount you can negotiate, so hopefully those sales will spark up a bit. A few guys on NSXprime are reporting discounts $50-$60k off. Sounds promising.

damn! now where are those dumb f*** bean counters at Honda? Meanwhile the -manual only- CTR is having up to $20k markup! fricken bean counters at other companies should take a lesson from this.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

TOYOTA PLOTTING NEXT GENERATION OF SPORTS CARS

Exec dishes on GR sub-brand, Supra, and next Toyobaru

Although the Supra sports car co-developed with BMW is no secret, Toyota this week revealed two next-generation sports cars that are likely to enter the lineup.

Although there were doubts whether Toyota and Subaru would continue their joint venture to make a second-generation 86 and BRZ, the two automakers “are already in discussion” to continue the rear-drive sporty coupe, said Shigeki Tomoyama, Toyota Motor Corp. senior managing officer.

Also raising eyebrows at the Tokyo Motor Show was Toyota’s GR HV Sports concept. Although some thought this targa-top coupe was a preview of the next 86/BRZ mashup, Tomoyama said this car was something further up the food chain, using the hybrid racing technology borrowed from the World Endurance Championship.

The WEC car, code-named TS050 in the LMP1 class, runs an engine with 45 percent thermal efficiency. Whereas Toyota used supercapacitors in previous WEC iterations, the TS050 has a motor-generator unit at each axle, with energy storage coming from cockpit-mounted, regenerative lithium-ion battery packs. When that feeds the 2.4-liter turbo V-6, total system output nears 1,000 hp.

But anyone can make horsepower. The real story, especially in endurance racing, is thermal efficiency. Most passenger cars are lucky if they reach 35 percent. But Toyota has a target of 50 percent thermal efficiency, said Tomoyama, who is president of Gazoo Racing and of Toyota’s connectivity efforts.

With a 173-inch length, 71-inch width, and 50.4-inch height, the GR HV Sports is about 7 inches longer than the Toyota 86 but about the same width and height.

Although no final decision has been made to build the car, Tomoyama said: “We would like to commercialize such kinds of sports vehicles with that kind of efficiency.”

As for the Supra, Tomoyama confirmed that Toyota wants the vehicle to have a straight-six layout and be “light and powerful.”

Tomoyama said Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda—driving under his racing alter ego “Morizo”—has been active in testing the Supra at the Nürburgring and elsewhere.

“We are focusing on rear tire traction and contact with the road,” Tomoyama said. “Cornering within smaller-diameter (tight) corners will be very important. The rear tires will need a little slip, and drivers need to know (the limit) of the slip.”

As for how much the Supra will be similar to the BMW Z4, Tomoyama said that Toyota utilized “some” parts from BMW, “but the model we are developing will be completely different. We will not disappoint.”

As a benchmark, Tomoyama has brought his personal 1997 Supra, tuned to 600 hp, into the Toyota executive parking lot. The Supra makes so much noise compared to most executives’ cars that the parking attendant tried to throw him out of the lot, determining that Tomoyama was a youthful imposter. Now, Tomoyama said: “He bows very deeply to me.”

Gazoo is now involved in tuning the Lexus “F” models, specifically the next-generation GS-F.

“We are looking at what kind of target audience the car has, what tone and manner, how much understeer and oversteer balance,”Tomoyama said. “The cars have to run faster, and that tuning is already (in place). Even within Lexus, we may have different models which have different tuning.”

As for whether Gazoo Racing will make specific inroads into the U.S. market, Tomoyama said that the brand will not interfere with the existing Toyota Racing Development group.

“TRD is a brand of parts, a customization brand. Gazoo Racing ranges from development of a car in production to sales. Of course, customization is part of Gazoo Racing. But Gazoo is going to launch a very pure sports vehicle in the future, and then you will know difference between GR and other companies.”

But for now, Gazoo is focused on the European and Japanese markets, where endurance and rally racing are more popular. In eyeing the American market, Gazoo is in early talks with folks interested in NASCAR and the IndyCar series.

But anyone lusting for a Gazoo Camry will have to wait a while, Tomoyama said: “We would rather launch a sports car with a dedicated special platform.”

http://www.motortrend.com/news/toyota-plotting-next-generation-of-sports-cars/

 

[zakira]

I think Honda, or Acura or whoever, should've named the new NSX something else, like HSX for hybrid, or NSX II or something, just not NSX.

It was too disappointing to be the successor of the original NSX. It may have succeeded had they named it something else, which would've cost them next to nothing to do.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

If anything, "The Supra will be by Gazoo" likely means that they are responsible for making it drive well, not that it will be a Gazoo Supra.

This, we have even seen the Toyota logo on the steering wheel.

 

[johnny_10196]

Supra Specifics

Instead, the first fruit of GR’s labor that we’re likely to see in the U.S. is the new Toyota Supra, due to be revealed sometime next year. The return of this revered sports-car nameplate has been in the news for years now, ever since Toyota entered into a partnership to develop a rear-wheel-drive sports-car platform with BMW. The Germans are further along in the process, having already shown a near-production concept version of the next-generation Z4 convertible. But the Supra, on which we’ve reported extensively, isn’t quite ready, even though it has been almost four years since Toyota showed the FT-1 concept (pictured at top), which was thought to preview its design.

What’s the holdup? Tomoyama explained that Toyota chief Akio Toyoda is personally involved in the project and that he has specific ideas about how the car should feel. The Gazoo Racing team is thus hard at work honing the Supra’s chassis tuning, with particular emphasis placed on rear-end grip. “It is important to have lots of feedback, because drivers have to know where the limit is,” Tomoyama explained. It’s also a priority for Toyota to make sure that the Supra is highly differentiated from its BMW equivalent. Tomoyama assured us that, despite sharing components with the BMW, the Supra will feel considerably different than the Z4. Given that his daily driver is a modified 1997 Toyota Supra with 600 horsepower, we’re inclined to trust Tomoyama’s car-enthusiast instincts.

https://blog.caranddriver.com/toyot...reet-cars-including-supra-and-new-lexus-gs-f/

 

[vb22]

Since they are going back to the drawing board/Gazoo involvement, how about throwing in a manual?

 

[A70TTR]

the car pretty much sucks for $150k lol; you can buy a GT-R which trades blows and even beats it in some areas for 40k less. that's also an old chassis at this point too, not that the NSX is all that recent either given the delays it experienced.

good thing they're considering the incentives...

 

[Mike]

DELETED THREAD

 

[vb22]

I think it could just be the GS-F?

 

[BrettS]

You can deff see the led strip from a Lexus under the headlights

 

[Zaki]

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2017/10/26/next-generation-lexus-gs-f-under-development/

 

[NYC_Supra]

Sporty Toyota line will make waves in U.S.

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Hans Greimel

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Toyota President Akio Toyoda burns rubber in the parking lot in his Gazoo Racing-spec Toyota 86. Photo credit: HANS GREIMEL

TOKYO — The U.S. may not get Toyota's new vehicle series, but it will get some of the line's sporty spirit.

Toyota has unveiled a sports car series for Japan and says it will take the line international. Dubbed GR, for Gazoo Racing, the series went on sale here last week and will expand to Europe.

The idea: Offer a pulse-pumping twist on the typical Toyota.

In Japan, the series kicked off with GR versions of the Prius Prime plug-in hybrid and Yaris subcompact hatchback, along with select domestic models. The models get sporty tuning, rigid bodywork and performance trim such as aluminum pedals, big air intakes and small-diameter steering wheels.

Toyota’s new GR sports car series gets special performance trim such as large air intakes and aluminum pedals. Photo credit: TOYOTA
The new venture also plans to develop a dedicated sports car platform, executives say. And Toyota wants to inject that sporty DNA into future products for the U.S. and elsewhere.

But don't expect the series to land stateside under the GR banner.

Part of the hang-up is that Toyota has an entrenched tuner line in the U.S. called Toyota Racing Development, or TRD. Executives see no need for new branding there.

Then there is the name itself. U.S. executives privately say they loathe the name Gazoo, which has no obvious Toyota tie-in. For some, the only image it conjures is the Great Gazoo, a green alien cartoon character from The Flintstones TV series in the 1960s.
Shigeki Tomoyama, president of Gazoo Racing Co., Toyota's motorsports and sports car division, said the company has no plans to use the GR name in America. But he said the treatment seen in the GR cars will be applied to future TRD entries and even production cars in North America.

"We are taking the challenge of adopting new tastes created in this process to stock cars as much as possible," Tomoyama said last week at the GR launch event here. "In its next phase, we will get a designated sports car platform and eventually — finally — we want to introduce a pure, genuine sports car, which can compete against top-class world competitors."

At a deeper level, Gazoo Racing pilots a new way of work for the company.


Gazoo Racing was cleaved off as a separate in-house subcompany of Toyota Motor Corp. in April with a mandate to cultivate a startup mentality and make streamlined decisions. It is supposed to take risks, act fast and bolster the brand image by injecting more emotion.

With a compact hand-picked staff of just more than 200 people, it handles all stages of product development, from design and engineering to production planning.

A key task is devising profitable ways to manufacture small batches of specialty cars.

The move comes as Japan's biggest automaker tries to cultivate a reputation for cars that are more emotional and aspirational, rather than simply reliable, utilitarian runabouts.

The new sports car line arrives ahead of an expected successor to the Toyota Supra, one of the brand's most storied sports cars. It could debut as early as next month's Tokyo Motor Show.

President Akio Toyoda, an accomplished race driver and the force behind Toyota's quest for zest, attended the GR launch and beguiled attendees afterward by doing doughnuts and burning rubber in the parking lot behind the wheel of his black and silver Gazoo Racing-spec Toyota 86.

"We have to show to the world that Toyota can actually make cars that are interesting," he said. "We want to satisfy customers for both mass produced cars and unique cars."

 

[SupraGuy19]

I like this CEO. He sounds cool.

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