What's the PID for flex fuel tune e%?

Thraxbert · Aug 8, 2022

underdonk said:
Got it. Thank you. So it seems that @Thraxbert has arrived at the logical conclusion that the software is the limiting factor in this case. There are all sorts of open source CAN sniffing tools available as long as one has the hardware to support them. I have experience with this stuff on the industrial control system side of the shop (toxic and nuclear waste processing), but we use pretty specialized tools (hardware and software) for this purpose. I've seen the open source tools work, though. There are some good, general tools available on the commercial market I've used for this purpose (outside of automotive work) in the past as well. At the risk of stating the obvious, that seems like what's needed here? The answer could be yours for $14,999.

I think it's less complicated than this.

1) The true CAN bus flex fuel solutions for the Supra already tap into CAN and send messages on CAN. Hardware side is done.

2) ECUTek and BM3 already read/support the CAN messages the Zeitronix ethanol box is sending. The software is already using it.

3) Zeitronix publishes sparse details of their CAN frame and data structure. The instructions are public.

4) Torque and other OBD applications can already read any CAN message, provided you know the right ID. The tools are there.

5) Therefore: All the pieces are already there in front of me, I'm just too stupid to figure out the puzzle.

razorlab · Aug 8, 2022

This write-up from Ecutek might be helpful for people that have wired in Flex Fuel sensors to the CAN network:

https://ecutek.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/SUPPORT/pages/382468112/B58+A90+Supra+RaceROM+Supplement

Also this:

https://ecutek.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/SUPPORT/pages/327725/BMW+F-Series+CAN+Sensor+Input

underdonk · Aug 8, 2022

Thraxbert said:
I think it's less complicated than this.

1) The true CAN bus flex fuel solutions for the Supra already tap into CAN and send messages on CAN. Hardware side is done.

2) ECUTek and BM3 already read/support the CAN messages the Zeitronix ethanol box is sending. The software is already using it.

3) Zeitronix publishes sparse details of their CAN frame and data structure. The instructions are public.

4) Torque and other OBD applications can already read any CAN message, provided you know the right ID. The tools are there.

5) Therefore: All the pieces are already there in front of me, I'm just too stupid to figure out the puzzle.

Well what the fuck, man. Come on. Do better.

razorlab · Aug 8, 2022

If people are looking for data logging via CAN and not just OBD2 port, here is a list of the CAN items I have so far:

Channel Name	Short Name	Units	Precision	Min Value	Max Value	Rate	CAN ID	Mask	Sub ID	CAN Bus	Offset	Length	Source Type	Bit Mode	Endian	Multiply	Divide	Add	Units Conversion
Accelertor Pedal	Pedal	%	1	0	100	25Hz	217	0	Disabled	2	2	2	Unsigned		Little	0.025	1	-102.4	No Conversion
Throttle Position (RAW)	TPS_Raw		0	0	65535	25Hz	217	0	Disabled	2	4	2	Unsigned		Little	1	1	0	No Conversion
Brake	Brake	%	1	0	100	25Hz	239	0	Disabled	2	3	1	Unsigned		Little	-2	1	250	No Conversion
Steering	Steering	Degrees	1	-360	360	25Hz	769	0	Disabled	2	2	2	Unsigned		Little	-0.03955	1	1295.93005	No Conversion
RPM	RPM	1/min	0	0	10000	25Hz	165	0	Disabled	2	5	2	Unsigned		Little	0.25	1	0	No Conversion
Gear	Gear		0	0	10	25Hz	1017	0	Disabled	2	52	4	Unsigned	Yes	Little	1	1	-4	No Conversion
Coolant Temp	ECT	Deg F	1	0	300	10Hz	1017	0	Disabled	2	4	1	Unsigned		Little	1	1	-48	C --> F
Oil Temp	EOT	Deg F	1	0	300	10Hz	1017	0	Disabled	2	5	1	Unsigned		Little	1	1	-48	C --> F
Ambient Temp	AAT	Deg F	1	0	300	1Hz	714	0	Disabled	2	0	1	Unsigned		Little	0.5	1	-40	C --> F
Wheel Speed	WheelSpeed	MPH	0	0	200	25Hz	417	0	Disabled	2	2	2	Unsigned		Little	0.01562	1	0	Kph --> MPH
Wheel Speed - Left Rear	WSLR	MPH	0	0	200	25Hz	596	0	Disabled	2	0	2	Unsigned		Little	0.01562	1	-511.98001	Kph --> MPH
Wheel Speed - Right Rear	WSRR	MPH	0	0	200	25Hz	596	0	Disabled	2	2	2	Unsigned		Little	0.01562	1	-511.98001	Kph --> MPH
Wheel Speed - Left Front	WSLF	MPH	0	0	200	25Hz	596	0	Disabled	2	4	2	Unsigned		Little	0.01562	1	-511.98001	Kph --> MPH
Wheel Speed - Right Front	WSRF	MPH	0	0	200	25Hz	596	0	Disabled	2	6	2	Unsigned		Little	0.01562	1	-511.98001	Kph --> MPH
Brake Pressure - Front	BrakeF	PSI	0	0	2000	25Hz	239	0	Disabled	2	2	2	Unsigned		Little	-0.015	1	480	bar --> PSI
Brake Pressure - Rear	BrakeR	PSI	0	0	2000	25Hz	239	0	Disabled	2	5	2	Unsigned		Little	-0.015	1	480	bar --> PSI
Engine Torque (RAW)	EngTq_Raw		0	0	65535	25Hz	165	0	Disabled	2	2	2	Unsigned		Little	1	1	0	No Conversion
Gearbox Torque (RAW)	GbxTq_Raw		0	0	65535	25Hz	165	0	Disabled	2	3	2	Unsigned		Little	1	1	0	No Conversion
Maximum RPM	MaxRPM	1/min	0	0	10000	25Hz	1017	0	Disabled	2	6	2	Unsigned		Little	1	1	50	No Conversion
Fuel Range	FuelRange	Miles	0	0	500	1Hz	816	0	Disabled	2	6	2	Unsigned		Little	0.0625	1	0	Kph --> MPH
Fuel Used	FuelUsed	Gallons	0	0	20	1Hz	816	0	Disabled	2	4	1	Unsigned		Little	0.26	1	0	No Conversion
Vehicle Acceleration - X Axis	AccelX_CAN	g	2	0	3	25Hz	409	0	Disabled	2	2	2	Unsigned		Little	-0.0002	1	6.6259	No Conversion
Vehicle Acceleration - Y Axis	AccelY_CAN	g	2	0	3	25Hz	410	0	Disabled	2	2	2	Unsigned		Little	-0.0002	1	6.6259	No Conversion
Vehicle Yaw Rate	Yaw_CAN	deg/s	2	-300	300	25Hz	415	0	Disabled	2	2	2	Unsigned		Little	-0.005	1	163.84	No Conversion

Thraxbert · Aug 8, 2022

@razorlab The Supra also has PIDs for EGT, coolant temp, trans fluid temp. Trying to find out what they are, but OBDLink can read them.

razorlab · Aug 8, 2022

Coolant is in post #11

EGT I believe is PID 78 and 79, if equipped. Also 98 and 99

Trans temp I'm not sure yet.

Surebob · Aug 8, 2022

razorlab said:
You are looking for OBD2 addresses? Here you go:

Channel OBDII PID CAN ID Match Raw Value Mapping Formula Units Conversion
PID Channel Name Short Name Units Precision Min Value Max Value Rate OBDII PID Mode Passive Mode 29 Bit Mode CAN ID Match Mask Sub ID CAN Bus Offset Length Source Type Bit Mode Endian Multiply Divide Add Units Conversion
04 Calculated Load CalcLoad % 1 0 100 10Hz 4 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 100 255 0 No Conversion
05 Engine Coolant Temp ECT °F 1 0 300 10Hz 5 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 1 1 -40 °C --> °F
06 Short-Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1 STFTB1 % 2 -100 100 10Hz 6 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 100 128 -100 No Conversion
07 Long-Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1 LTFTB1 % 2 -100 100 10Hz 7 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 100 128 -100 No Conversion
0B Intake Manifold Pressure MAP psia 1 0 255 25Hz 11 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 14.696 101.325 0 No Conversion
0C Engine Speed RPM 1/minutes 0 0 16383.75 25Hz 12 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 2 Unsigned Big 1 4 0 No Conversion
0D Vehicle Speed WheelSpeed miles/hr 0 0 255 25Hz 13 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 1 1 0 kph --> MPH
0E Timing Advance Advance degrees 2 -64 63.5 25Hz 14 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 1 2 -64 No Conversion
0F Intake Air Temperature IAT °F 1 0 300 25Hz 15 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 1 1 -40 °C --> °F
11 Throttle Position TPS % 1 0 100 25Hz 17 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 100 255 0 No Conversion
15 O2 Sensor 2 - Bank 1 (volts) O2S2B1A volts 3 0 1.275 25Hz 21 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 1 200 0 No Conversion
15 O2 Sensor 2 - Bank 1 (%) O2S2B1B % 2 -100 100 25Hz 21 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 4 1 Unsigned Big 100 128 -100 No Conversion
1F Time Since Engine Start RunTime seconds 0 0 65535 1Hz 31 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 2 Unsigned Big 1 1 0 No Conversion
21 Mileage With MIL On MilDistance miles 0 0 65535 1Hz 33 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 2 Unsigned Big 1 1 0 kph --> MPH
2E Commanded Evap Purge EvapPurge % 1 0 100 1Hz 46 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 100 255 0 No Conversion
2F Fuel Level FuelLevel % 1 0 100 1Hz 47 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 100 255 0 No Conversion
30 Warmups Since Code Clear ResetWarmups 0 0 255 1Hz 48 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 1 1 0 No Conversion
31 Mileage Since Code Clear ResetDistance miles 0 0 65535 1Hz 49 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 2 Unsigned Big 1 1 0 kph --> MPH
33 Barometric Pressure AAP psia 1 0 255 1Hz 51 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 14.696 101.325 0 No Conversion
3A O2 Sensor 1 - Bank 1 - Air/Fuel (lambda) AFR lambda 3 0 2 25Hz 58 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 2 Unsigned Big 2 65535 0 No Conversion
3A O2 Sensor 1 - Bank 1 - Air/Fuel (mA) AFRmA mA 1 -128 128 25Hz 58 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 5 2 Unsigned Big 1 256 -128 No Conversion
3C Catalyst Temp - Bank 1 S1 CatTemp °F 0 0 3000 1Hz 60 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 2 Unsigned Big 1 10 -40 °C --> °F
42 ECU Voltage ECUVolts volts 1 0 65535 1Hz 66 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 2 Unsigned Big 1 1000 0 No Conversion
43 Absolute Engine Load AbsLoad % 1 0 25700 25Hz 67 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 2 Unsigned Big 100 255 0 No Conversion
44 Commanded Air/Fuel Ratio AFRCommanded lambda 3 0 2 25Hz 68 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 2 Unsigned Big 2 65535 0 No Conversion
45 Relative Throttle Position RTP % 1 0 100 25Hz 69 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 100 255 0 No Conversion
46 Ambient Air Temperature AAT °F 1 0 300 1Hz 70 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 1 1 -40 °C --> °F
47 Absolute Throttle Position B ATPB % 1 0 100 25Hz 71 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 100 255 0 No Conversion
49 Accelerator Pedal Position D APPD % 1 0 100 25Hz 73 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 100 255 0 No Conversion
4A Accelerator Pedal Position E APPE % 1 0 100 25Hz 74 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 100 255 0 No Conversion
4C Throttle Actuator Throttle % 1 0 100 25Hz 76 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 100 255 0 No Conversion
55 Short-Term Fuel Trim 2 - Bank 1 STFT2B1 % 1 -100 100 25Hz 85 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 100 128 -100 No Conversion
56 Long-Term Fuel Trim 2 - Bank 1 LTFT2B1 % 1 -100 100 25Hz 86 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 100 128 -100 No Conversion
5C Engine Oil Temperature EOT °F 1 0 300 10Hz 92 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 1 1 -40 °C --> °F
62 Actual Torque Torque % 1 -125 130 25Hz 98 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 1 1 -125 No Conversion
67 Engine Coolant Temp - Sensor 1 ECTS1 °F 1 0 300 25Hz 103 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 1 1 -40 °C --> °F
67 Engine Coolant Temp - Sensor 2 ECTS2 °F 1 0 300 25Hz 103 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 4 1 Unsigned Big 1 1 -40 °C --> °F
68 Intake Air Temperature - Sensor 1 IATS1 °F 1 0 300 25Hz 104 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 3 1 Unsigned Big 1 1 -40 °C --> °F
68 Intake Air Temperature - Sensor 2 IATS2 °F 1 0 300 25Hz 104 01h 2024 0 Disabled 1 4 1 Unsigned Big 1 1 -40 °C --> °F

nice thank you! i dont see boost and HP i only see torque, those havent been mapped yet?

razorlab · Aug 8, 2022

Surebob said:
nice thank you! i dont see boost and HP i only see torque, those havent been mapped yet?

0B "Intake Manifold Pressure"

Surebob · Aug 9, 2022

razorlab said:
0B "Intake Manifold Pressure"

how would one go about getting real time data from the can bus for example intake manifold pressure, how do apps report a real time number like boost pressure, do they send requests every second?

zrk · Aug 9, 2022

Surebob said:
how would one go about getting real time data from the can bus for example intake manifold pressure, how do apps report a real time number like boost pressure, do they send requests every second?

It's broadcast over the network, you just listen.

Surebob · Aug 9, 2022

zrk said:
It's broadcast over the network, you just listen.

some things yes, but for example intake manifold pressure isn't broadcasting all the time, looks like I can send queries to get the can buss to send me the values I'm after. I know how can buss works in general, just thought that someone might already have an implementation, ill probably mess around with an Arduino and ill cut up this obd2 extension i have see what I can come up with. would be cool if I can make a OLED with boost/temp gauges

Deighvid · Aug 10, 2022

Subbed for shit that's way over my head

underdonk · Aug 10, 2022

Surebob said:
some things yes, but for example intake manifold pressure isn't broadcasting all the time, looks like I can send queries to get the can buss to send me the values I'm after. I know how can buss works in general, just thought that someone might already have an implementation, ill probably mess around with an Arduino and ill cut up this obd2 extension i have see what I can come up with. would be cool if I can make a OLED with boost/temp gauges

Sounds like a fun project. <wistfully remembers when I had time to do this kind of thing>

Surebob · Aug 10, 2022

underdonk said:
Sounds like a fun project. <wistfully remembers when I had time to do this kind of thing>

Yea definitely gonna have some fun with this one, I also don’t have much time for it though hahah

razorlab · Aug 10, 2022

Surebob said:
some things yes, but for example intake manifold pressure isn't broadcasting all the time, looks like I can send queries to get the can buss to send me the values I'm after. I know how can buss works in general, just thought that someone might already have an implementation, ill probably mess around with an Arduino and ill cut up this obd2 extension i have see what I can come up with. would be cool if I can make a OLED with boost/temp gauges

Are you sure? I get pretty close to the max 25hz rate if I’m just logging that item.

As you know, the more obd2 items logged, the lower overall rate.

I prefer to log as much as I can over CAN as the rates are much much higher.

What's the PID for flex fuel tune e%?

Thraxbert

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