- Banned
- #871
Who said BMW?...hmmm...your right, I guess that's why the 90's era Japanese cars are skyrocketing in value while 3yr old BMW's are rotting away in parking lots begging to be sold. Maybe I got it all wrong then
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PerformanceSound
Well-Known Member
No one, I was just using BMW as an example due to their high-priced "sports car like" nature. Did you want me to compare it against a Cadillac Escalade?
Bimyota
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2017
- Threads
- 0
- Messages
- 28
- Reaction score
- 69
- Location
- Upstate NY
- Car(s)
- 1994 Toyota Supra Turbo, 1999 BMW Z3 M Roadster
The legacy of the MKIV isn't something which can be replicated. I've had mine for 19 years, and I was around when the single turbos started to hit in numbers. It was as if someone had unleashed a WMD on the car scene. . Within maybe 18 months, it went from "what kind of Toyota is that?" to "fuckin' Supras everywhere, I need a 250 shot on my GTS just to keep up", and all of the car mags went from having endless Honda B motor cover cars to all Supras, all the time. It was a revolution in the streets, and that's even before The Fast and The Furious turned it into every high school kid's dream car.
Having said that, bone stock the car wasn't anything all that special. It was heavy expensive and had power inline with it's class, but nothing extraordinary. I looked at one brand new when I was a senior in college and about fell over when I saw the sticker ($55k in 1994). Among my friends at the time, the FD RX-7 and the NSX were the cars we sweated. Of course, no one had any idea what the power potential was, at least not yet.
(Five years later, the same friend who went to the dealership with me called me up almost out of breath - he'd just ridden in a modded Supra and kept saying "holy fuck holy fuck that was the fastest fucking car I've ever been in. If you find one, BUY IT!" I found one the next day and did. $18.5k with a six speed)
I've owned a lot of the fast cars from the 90s - DOHC Cobra, AMG E55, Ferrari 355, C5 Z06, Camaro LS1, Stealth RT/TT, Porsche 911 Turbo, and shopped plenty more - FD RX-7, Viper GTS, NSX, 300ZX TT, and can tell you for a fact that the MKIV trounces every one of them. It's the only one I kept. (Though that 355 sounded like pure magic...and the gated shifter was automotive sex)
With what's out there now, what would a MKIV successor need to be to live up to that legacy? jdmuscle has pretty much the modern dream garage, (though he needs to trade that Z06 in on a ZR-1) and just look at the power, performance and sheer specialness of those rides. Throw in Hellcats, which are everywhere, past and future GT500s, ZL1 Camaros....then there's the exotics, McLarens, Ferrari 488, Huracan, not to mention people boosting Gallardos and R8s. It's a totally different landscape. Hell, even Jag has the F-Type R.
So what could Toyota possibly do to follow up on that legacy, to be a complete game changer? What's that car even look like? Forget price. 500+hp? 600+? 1000hp+ potential on the stock block? That's just playing catch up. Is it even an inline six anymore, or do you go for a boosted V8? Do you go bold on weight and try for all carbon fiber like the Alfa 4C? The answer is going to look a lot like an LC-F.
I agree with whoever said that the real successor to the MKIV was the LFA. The closest thing to a modern MKIV right now is probably the crazy ZL1 1LE, in the sense that it punches way out of it's weight class, or the ZR1, though the price is eye watering. Tuning shops are already talking about stage kits to get it past 1000hp without touching a valve cover. It's going to be a legend.
I gave up on a direct MKIV successor the day the car was cancelled in Japan without a replacement. I'm still interested in this car, but under no illusions that it will have the impact on the car world the MKIV had. I'm not even sure that's possible for any car. Not every legend bears an even greater legend; Bob Marley had Ziggy, Bruce Lee had Brandon, and the MKIV has the MKV.
I've liked every Supra going back to the MK1, and I've driven all of them (owned a MK2 race car and a MK3 Turbo briefly). Each one is a very a different car. This one will be also, and that's okay. It's not as if Toyota (err...I mean, BMW) decided to make a crossover and label it a Supra (anyone remember the RSC concept?) If the car is quick, fun, looks good, is high quality and can handle some healthy power mods, then it might be worth the coin, especially if that 'ring time is legit. I've been optimistic about the MKV, and I think there are very good reasons to be. It won't be a MKIV, but it may still be a special car.
Let this car have it's identity, whatever that turns out to be. Times change and so do cars. The Corvette guys are losing their minds arguing over the mid engine car. Porsche guys engage in religious wars over air cooled versus water cars, or mid engine versus rear (or front engined cars, which are suddenly collectible despite decades of scorn). Having back seats and a third door on the RX-8 was turning a sports car legend into a baby mobile. Even the MX-5 guys complain about how the RF isn't a "real" Miata. Let's not even go into what the old school GTO guys thought about their badge going on a Holden.
At least this new Supra will still have a turbo, unlike the Nissan Z abominations, amirite?
Shit happens. It's not as if the old cars vanish when a new one comes out. If anything, they become even more special.
Keeping in theme with the thread, I'm at 5 based on known facts. If everything A70 has posted turns out to be true, I might go to 8.
Having said that, bone stock the car wasn't anything all that special. It was heavy expensive and had power inline with it's class, but nothing extraordinary. I looked at one brand new when I was a senior in college and about fell over when I saw the sticker ($55k in 1994). Among my friends at the time, the FD RX-7 and the NSX were the cars we sweated. Of course, no one had any idea what the power potential was, at least not yet.
(Five years later, the same friend who went to the dealership with me called me up almost out of breath - he'd just ridden in a modded Supra and kept saying "holy fuck holy fuck that was the fastest fucking car I've ever been in. If you find one, BUY IT!" I found one the next day and did. $18.5k with a six speed)
I've owned a lot of the fast cars from the 90s - DOHC Cobra, AMG E55, Ferrari 355, C5 Z06, Camaro LS1, Stealth RT/TT, Porsche 911 Turbo, and shopped plenty more - FD RX-7, Viper GTS, NSX, 300ZX TT, and can tell you for a fact that the MKIV trounces every one of them. It's the only one I kept. (Though that 355 sounded like pure magic...and the gated shifter was automotive sex)
With what's out there now, what would a MKIV successor need to be to live up to that legacy? jdmuscle has pretty much the modern dream garage, (though he needs to trade that Z06 in on a ZR-1) and just look at the power, performance and sheer specialness of those rides. Throw in Hellcats, which are everywhere, past and future GT500s, ZL1 Camaros....then there's the exotics, McLarens, Ferrari 488, Huracan, not to mention people boosting Gallardos and R8s. It's a totally different landscape. Hell, even Jag has the F-Type R.
So what could Toyota possibly do to follow up on that legacy, to be a complete game changer? What's that car even look like? Forget price. 500+hp? 600+? 1000hp+ potential on the stock block? That's just playing catch up. Is it even an inline six anymore, or do you go for a boosted V8? Do you go bold on weight and try for all carbon fiber like the Alfa 4C? The answer is going to look a lot like an LC-F.
I agree with whoever said that the real successor to the MKIV was the LFA. The closest thing to a modern MKIV right now is probably the crazy ZL1 1LE, in the sense that it punches way out of it's weight class, or the ZR1, though the price is eye watering. Tuning shops are already talking about stage kits to get it past 1000hp without touching a valve cover. It's going to be a legend.
I gave up on a direct MKIV successor the day the car was cancelled in Japan without a replacement. I'm still interested in this car, but under no illusions that it will have the impact on the car world the MKIV had. I'm not even sure that's possible for any car. Not every legend bears an even greater legend; Bob Marley had Ziggy, Bruce Lee had Brandon, and the MKIV has the MKV.
I've liked every Supra going back to the MK1, and I've driven all of them (owned a MK2 race car and a MK3 Turbo briefly). Each one is a very a different car. This one will be also, and that's okay. It's not as if Toyota (err...I mean, BMW) decided to make a crossover and label it a Supra (anyone remember the RSC concept?) If the car is quick, fun, looks good, is high quality and can handle some healthy power mods, then it might be worth the coin, especially if that 'ring time is legit. I've been optimistic about the MKV, and I think there are very good reasons to be. It won't be a MKIV, but it may still be a special car.
Let this car have it's identity, whatever that turns out to be. Times change and so do cars. The Corvette guys are losing their minds arguing over the mid engine car. Porsche guys engage in religious wars over air cooled versus water cars, or mid engine versus rear (or front engined cars, which are suddenly collectible despite decades of scorn). Having back seats and a third door on the RX-8 was turning a sports car legend into a baby mobile. Even the MX-5 guys complain about how the RF isn't a "real" Miata. Let's not even go into what the old school GTO guys thought about their badge going on a Holden.
At least this new Supra will still have a turbo, unlike the Nissan Z abominations, amirite?
Shit happens. It's not as if the old cars vanish when a new one comes out. If anything, they become even more special.
Keeping in theme with the thread, I'm at 5 based on known facts. If everything A70 has posted turns out to be true, I might go to 8.
- Banned
- #880
@Bimyota .. your story sounds similar to mine! I drove a MKIV while at work and fell in love. Bought my current Supra roughly 17yrs ago (TT 6spd Sport roof) for about 13k.
As for trading the Z06 for the ZR1, I almost near hate the front end of the ZR1. Its so out of place and such an after thought. GM failed in this design instance IMO. Very happy with my Z06, itās a blower upgrade from blowing the doors of the ZR1. So wonāt ever be doing that trade. If I do sell it, it would be for a 991.2 GT3 Touring.
RX8 was a disaster and IMO, MKV is turning out to be the RX8 of the Supra world. At least the RX8 was in house and Mazda didnāt go begging for a platform and a motor elsewhere. 370Z is probably the only one of the bunch that came close to living up to the Z32 legend even though it lacked the forced induction aspect. ND Miata is a marvel from Mazda and kudos to them.. yeah the RF weighs a bit more but itās still an awesome car. I really want a regular ND Club with the Brembos as a daily.
As for the MKV, I really think itās actually a damn MK1 Zupra. Doesnāt really feel like we have a Supra sequel here besides Toyota trying to capitalize on its past by a pathetic attempt at protraying itself to be sporty. Market perception is everything when it comes to a carās success and youāll see that this car will be looked up as a bimmer more than a Toyota by everyone. Much like the 86 as a Subaru more than a Toyota. In an attempt to saving money.. Toyota is just selling its soul to have others make the cars that people actually cherish. No one gives a damn about a Corolla.. or a Camry. JV in those segments and cash in.. why JV on a car that everyone is looking forward to and in the process loose your identity.
Here is our halo car with a BMW motor and itās made in Austria.... sounds like a perfect recipe for disaster. Nothing JDM about it.. nothing Supra about it besides the name plate.
As for trading the Z06 for the ZR1, I almost near hate the front end of the ZR1. Its so out of place and such an after thought. GM failed in this design instance IMO. Very happy with my Z06, itās a blower upgrade from blowing the doors of the ZR1. So wonāt ever be doing that trade. If I do sell it, it would be for a 991.2 GT3 Touring.
RX8 was a disaster and IMO, MKV is turning out to be the RX8 of the Supra world. At least the RX8 was in house and Mazda didnāt go begging for a platform and a motor elsewhere. 370Z is probably the only one of the bunch that came close to living up to the Z32 legend even though it lacked the forced induction aspect. ND Miata is a marvel from Mazda and kudos to them.. yeah the RF weighs a bit more but itās still an awesome car. I really want a regular ND Club with the Brembos as a daily.
As for the MKV, I really think itās actually a damn MK1 Zupra. Doesnāt really feel like we have a Supra sequel here besides Toyota trying to capitalize on its past by a pathetic attempt at protraying itself to be sporty. Market perception is everything when it comes to a carās success and youāll see that this car will be looked up as a bimmer more than a Toyota by everyone. Much like the 86 as a Subaru more than a Toyota. In an attempt to saving money.. Toyota is just selling its soul to have others make the cars that people actually cherish. No one gives a damn about a Corolla.. or a Camry. JV in those segments and cash in.. why JV on a car that everyone is looking forward to and in the process loose your identity.
Here is our halo car with a BMW motor and itās made in Austria.... sounds like a perfect recipe for disaster. Nothing JDM about it.. nothing Supra about it besides the name plate.
- Banned
- #881
Yes sir.. I have seen it. Iām in truck country brutha.. this stuff is all over the place.
- Banned
- #885
They did soften the styling a bit but itās a ton more refined. NAIAS 2019 will be the debut platform for he new HD RAM.. letās see how that pans out. Love the Cummins ISBs best HD 1 Ton truck motor in the industry.looks less aggressive now
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