Why I'm NOT Hyped About The New Toyota Supra

Jabba

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A good 1/3 of this forum's problems could had been avoided if Toyota would had named this car differently (FT-??? :dunno:).

For me, driving experience is everything. I'm a fan of smaller sport coupes and so far, this car is checking off a good amount of wants on my list, but I agree with the manual arguments and pricing could be an issue.

The nay-sayers here are pretty funny to read. Not spoiling my fun and it's good to see where the car could be lacking potentially. I would had loved to see Toyota release this car to their 100k taste and not buy the car lol. I know I wouldn't.
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The nay-sayers here are pretty funny to read. Not spoiling my fun and it's good to see where the car could be lacking potentially. I would had loved to see Toyota release this car to their 100k taste and not buy the car lol. I know I wouldn't.
I agree with this 100%.

Everyone wants a GTR competitor from Toyota, their favorite automaker, so they can have a false sense of pride that their company has the better flagship car. This is all while there are very few who can actually afford the car and even less who take advantage of the performance. For whatever reason, some people think the mk4 is (subjectively) better than the R33/R34 that it justifies their purchase of an IS300/SC300 over the guys in 240s/G35s, and vise versa
 

Syed Shah

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A good 1/3 of this forum's problems could had been avoided if Toyota would had named this car differently (FT-??? :dunno:).

For me, driving experience is everything. I'm a fan of smaller sport coupes and so far, this car is checking off a good amount of wants on my list, but I agree with the manual arguments and pricing could be an issue.

The nay-sayers here are pretty funny to read. Not spoiling my fun and it's good to see where the car could be lacking potentially. I would had loved to see Toyota release this car to their 100k taste and not buy the car lol. I know I wouldn't.
I dont think so. If you call it the FT-?? then people who have been waiting for a new supra for all these years will be unhappy that they didnt get a supra..

Its a case of you cant impress everyone for toyota
 

boodjohn

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You say that like $2-9 billion isnt a lot of money to a company. The risk of introducing a new Supra is major itself. You canā€™t just decide to start gunning for the market leader (Porsche 718 Cayman) when you havenā€™t made an engine in the same calibre since 2002.. The Supra isnā€™t going to be sold to every Tom, Dick and Harry and we all know that. They will never recoup their initial investment into the the R&D funds of the inhouse Inline 6, so it makes no sense for them to even bother with it..
Let me tell you something - Toyota is top Dog. In terms of price, power, research and development. They have the most equity of all car manufacturers.

How long has the supra been in development?
Lets say since 2014 when the Ft-1 came out, but sources say 2012. Since 2014, a company that brings in a revenue of $200 billion yearly, deems a corporate engine development is a risk? Since 2014, they have amassed over $800 billion globally. BILLION. They are pouring millions into R&D everyday! So, dont tell me $2-9 billion isnt a lot of money to a company because to toyota - its nothing. Remind you, this is over the course of many years. They have financial analyst, BANKS, hedge funds, and more that bring in money on top of +$200 Billion/yearly.

Open your eyes, man.

You canā€™t just decide to start gunning for the market leader (Porsche 718 Cayman) when you havenā€™t made an engine in the same calibre since 2002..
Nice jab at Toyota.

Until you realize the level of power Toyota has in this world market is when you realize Toyota is giving us the short end of the stick.


So, go ahead and stand along side with Goliath.
 

Syed Shah

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Let me tell you something - Toyota is top Dog. In terms of price, power, research and development. They have the most equity of all car manufacturers.

How long has the supra been in development?
Lets say since 2014 when the Ft-1 came out, but sources say 2012. Since 2014, a company that brings in a revenue of $200 billion yearly, deems a corporate engine development is a risk? Since 2014, they have amassed over $800 billion globally. BILLION. They are pouring millions into R&D everyday! So, dont tell me $2-9 billion isnt a lot of money to a company because to toyota - its nothing. Remind you, this is over the course of many years. They have financial analyst, BANKS, hedge funds, and more that bring in money on top of +$200 Billion/yearly.

Open your eyes, man.



Nice jab at Toyota.

Until you realize the level of power Toyota has in this world market is when you realize Toyota is giving us the short end of the stick.


So, go ahead and stand along side with Goliath.
& you think because they have made 800 billion since then, its wise to splash billions knowingly that they will never recuprate this back? As a business decision, itā€™s not at all wise.

Yes they invest in R&D, but just a basic guess when looking at projects like the mirai can tell you they are preparing for life without combustion engines.. thats where the R&D money is most valuable for them.

Even if they created their own I6 as many of you are asking for, when its not achieiving the numbers you guys are hoping for, the critisim will still be there. Tada-san has been very clear in saying that the A90 is perfectly powered, so you wont be happy then either..

A business like Toyota only remains profitable when they look at what makes sense on a business level.. The business decision to partner with BMW (who create unrivalled straight 6 petrol engines and have the best ZF8 as well) is a job well done.

Now its down to you to get to grips with the facts and realise that the B58 (i think many forget its tuned by Toyota) will power the supra.

Its not a bad engine at all, its reputable and tuneable.
 

boodjohn

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& you think because they have made 800 billion since then, its wise to splash billions knowingly that they will never recuprate this back? As a business decision, itā€™s not at all wise.

Yes they invest in R&D, but just a basic guess when looking at projects like the mirai can tell you they are preparing for life without combustion engines.. thats where the R&D money is most valuable for them.

Even if they created their own I6 as many of you are asking for, when its not achieiving the numbers you guys are hoping for, the critisim will still be there. Tada-san has been very clear in saying that the A90 is perfectly powered, so you wont be happy then either..

A business like Toyota only remains profitable when they look at what makes sense on a business level.. The business decision to partner with BMW (who create unrivalled straight 6 petrol engines and have the best ZF8 as well) is a job well done.

Now its down to you to get to grips with the facts and realise that the B58 (i think many forget its tuned by Toyota) will power the supra.

Its not a bad engine at all, its reputable and tuneable.
They have amassed more than $800 billion.

Mirai is a R&D project with expectations of spear heading further hydrogen powered vehicles. It is a stepping stone. A project that costed them millions when there are so few hydrogen stations in America. (like what, under 30 in California specifically?)
Mirai is a foundation for other vehicles to be built upon.

So, I guess toyota makes no sense to develop i6s.

What is surprising is that Mercedes is going back to i6s, Chevy going back to i6s, Ford is r&ding i6s. FCA is going back to i6s.
Even more surprising is Toyota is r&ding i6s in diesel form for their BOF.

You can create an inline six and it can have many applications in many other cars/vehicles. How? Bore it. Stroke it. Tune it.
Coporate engines are made with the fact to save the company money on developing further engine developments.
The JZ? It was a updated engine from previous blocks. LC used it. LX used it. Supra used it. SC used it.
What are you trying to say? Develop an engine for one car use? You think that makes sense?
Those V6 back in the day? 2.5V6, 3.5V6, 4.0V6. Same engine. Bored Differently. Some have longer strokes. Different tune.
Those V8?back in the day? 4.0 V8, 4.5V8, 4.7 V8, 4.8V8, 5.7V8. Same engine. Bored Differently. Some have longer strokes. Different tune.

Toyota isnt dumb.

Now its down to you to get to grips with the facts and realise that the B58 (i think many forget its tuned by Toyota) will power the supra.
It is also down to you to get a grip on the fact if someone said it is going to be under XXXXlbs are you going to believe it? That is hardly a fact. Has toyota published it? Therefore, it is a rumor.

Patience is a bitch.
 

Syed Shah

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They have amassed more than $800 billion.

Mirai is a R&D project with expectations of spear heading further hydrogen powered vehicles. It is a stepping stone. A project that costed them millions when there are so few hydrogen stations in America. (like what, under 30 in California specifically?)
Mirai is a foundation for other vehicles to be built upon.

So, I guess toyota makes no sense to develop i6s.

What is surprising is that Mercedes is going back to i6s, Chevy going back to i6s, Ford is r&ding i6s. FCA is going back to i6s.
Even more surprising is Toyota is r&ding i6s in diesel form for their BOF.

You can create an inline six and it can have many applications in many other cars/vehicles. How? Bore it. Stroke it. Tune it.
Coporate engines are made with the fact to save the company money on developing further engine developments.
The JZ? It was a updated engine from previous blocks. LC used it. LX used it. Supra used it. SC used it.
What are you trying to say? Develop an engine for one car use? You think that makes sense?
Those V6 back in the day? 2.5V6, 3.5V6, 4.0V6. Same engine. Bored Differently. Some have longer strokes. Different tune.
Those V8?back in the day? 4.0 V8, 4.5V8, 4.7 V8, 4.8V8, 5.7V8. Same engine. Bored Differently. Some have longer strokes. Different tune.

Toyota isnt dumb.



It is also down to you to get a grip on the fact if someone said it is going to be under XXXXlbs are you going to believe it? That is hardly a fact. Has toyota published it? Therefore, it is a rumor.

Patience is a bitch.
Exactly, Mirai is a foundation for other vehicles to be built upon. When a company explores a new segment of the market with success (like Toyota and the Mirai) it put's them in a better position for the future and on investment terms, they will recoup back every penny of it when the world turns towards cars such as the Mirai. When the combustion engine is gone, Toyota will reap the benefits of this investment.. which was most probably in the billions and not in the millions imo.

Creating a new Inline 6 doesn't make much sense in comparison to using the B58 engine. The B58 is a solid engine and has a great tunability factor to it also. It's more than good enough for most competitors within it's class, for example when used in the M2, it was a very close competitior to the 718 Cayman.. is that not what Tada-San wanted? So it makes perfect sense.

Oh and Mercedes, Chevy and Ford are turning back to I6's which is great for them.. But you are forgetting that all of them have consisently had a sports car in their line up.. The Supra will be the flagship model for Toyota, and the risk of disappointing because the inline 6 is not as expected is FAR greater. They took minimal risk and built upon an already reputable platform that BMW is famed for.. the B58 (which many already consider the B58 the modern day 2JZ). I mean a lot of you guys are acting like Toyota has sourced an engine from Renault.. (Mercedes use a Renault 1.5 in the A180 ffs lol)

Oh and they aren't creating a new engine for 1 car.. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. They have just tuned a B58 and made good use of it.

I understand you are on the otherside of the spectrum, but get to grips man. It's not as bad as you are making yourself believe it is.. Oh and earlier you said I was taking a jab at Toyota.

Let's be honest, Toyota haven't created an engine on the same level as Porsche. If you think otherwise then boy do I have news for you.
 

boodjohn

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Exactly, Mirai is a foundation for other vehicles to be built upon. When a company explores a new segment of the market with success (like Toyota and the Mirai) it put's them in a better position for the future and on investment terms, they will recoup back every penny of it when the world turns towards cars such as the Mirai. When the combustion engine is gone, Toyota will reap the benefits of this investment.. which was most probably in the billions and not in the millions imo.

Creating a new Inline 6 doesn't make much sense in comparison to using the B58 engine. The B58 is a solid engine and has a great tunability factor to it also. It's more than good enough for most competitors within it's class, for example when used in the M2, it was a very close competitior to the 718 Cayman.. is that not what Tada-San wanted? So it makes perfect sense.

Oh and Mercedes, Chevy and Ford are turning back to I6's which is great for them.. But you are forgetting that all of them have consisently had a sports car in their line up.. The Supra will be the flagship model for Toyota, and the risk of disappointing because the inline 6 is not as expected is FAR greater. They took minimal risk and built upon an already reputable platform that BMW is famed for.. the B58 (which many already consider the B58 the modern day 2JZ). I mean a lot of you guys are acting like Toyota has sourced an engine from Renault.. (Mercedes use a Renault 1.5 in the A180 ffs lol)

Oh and they aren't creating a new engine for 1 car.. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. They have just tuned a B58 and made good use of it.

I understand you are on the otherside of the spectrum, but get to grips man. It's not as bad as you are making yourself believe it is.. Oh and earlier you said I was taking a jab at Toyota.

Let's be honest, Toyota haven't created an engine on the same level as Porsche. If you think otherwise then boy do I have news for you.
Its funny how they are trying to force the government to open more hydrogen plant stations. However, this topic is done.

There are always reasons why you want to develop an engine in comparision to B58. Every company wants to one up. That is why they are going back to i6s. This is business. This is competition. Also, you do realize that this "tunability factor" is still "grey area." No one has hands on this car to tune it. People dont realize how difficult it is to MAP a car.

Go ahead Tune you car. Toyota wants you to do that. VOID WARRANTY :)

A basic search shows that the development of i6s from mercedes, chevy and ford are going into cars not sports car related.
Toyota Supra is not their flagship. It is the TS050. Lets make that clear.

Oh and they aren't creating a new engine for 1 car.. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. They have just tuned a B58 and made good use of it.
Where did i say it? Did i not provide you facts on engine applications?

You did jab toyota. Havent developed an engine since 2002. Nice one. I agree on it too.
Toyota doesnt need to create an engine on the same level of Porsche because they have it already. 1GR. 2GR. 3GR

:dunno:
 

Syed Shah

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Its funny how they are trying to force the government to open more hydrogen plant stations. However, this topic is done.

There are always reasons why you want to develop an engine in comparision to B58. Every company wants to one up. That is why they are going back to i6s. This is business. This is competition. Also, you do realize that this "tunability factor" is still "grey area." No one has hands on this car to tune it. People dont realize how difficult it is to MAP a car.

Go ahead Tune you car. Toyota wants you to do that. VOID WARRANTY :)

A basic search shows that the development of i6s from mercedes, chevy and ford are going into cars not sports car related.
Toyota Supra is not their flagship. It is the TS050. Lets make that clear.


Where did i say it? Did i not provide you facts on engine applications?

You did jab toyota. Havent developed an engine since 2002. Nice one. I agree on it too.
Toyota doesnt need to create an engine on the same level of Porsche because they have it already. 1GR. 2GR. 3GR

:dunno:
We in the UK donā€™t get the 1,2 or 3GR. Biggest Toyota engine sold here (from a new Toyota) is the 2.8l diesel in the Land Cruiser Prado.

So a lot of what I refer to is based upon the UK market.. (which would be very similar to Europe overall). So on that basis, Toyota stand no chance vs Porsche engine wise (in the UK and Europe anyways).

As for this discussion, I will just agree to disagree on your points. I personally feel that the B58 will be epic in the Supra, and its only time until someone figures it out for tuning.

Enjoy
 

MA617M

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been pondering this a bit more. I mentioned earlier that I enjoy the differences of each generation of supra (except my A40, it's still in pieces and I haven't driven it)

But the one thing they all do - is feel special when you drive them. even around town the A80 feels like a japanese supercar from the 90s. The A60 is the 80s hero car time warp. My A70... well it's a track car so it feels special in that way. Plus it has the minolta livery so that makes it fun.

I loved my GT86. it was a really fun car. but just cruising around town... it didn't feel special. it only felt special when you were driving it hard. that was the thing that just didn't do it for me.

Whatever the A90 does, i really hope when you sit in it, it feels like something special... and personally, it's something only driving one can determine. (example - the A45 AMG is an awesome car on paper - but it didn't feel special at all to me - but the Renault RS265 on the other hand...)
 

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That was the intention of the 86 though, it was economic practical sporty car, it felt special enough for me when I used to own it and drive it, the sitting position was fantastic, the driver's view was on point, the fuel economy was good, although the cabin felt cheap, but you can justify it by its price tag. Then come the times where and when you take it for a spirited drive around curvy roads and it was like hot knife through butter.

The 86 won many awards for a reason and it was applauded by many professional drivers


The one thing I wished it had was..... en extra 40-50% more torque to get that ooomp boost off stops
 

MA617M

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don't get me wrong - i loved the car! seating position and driving was fantastic. i'd still love one. I was lucky to swap mine for a 1999 RZ Supra in factory original spec, so just before A80 prices went sky high and GT86 dropped :p
 

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I'd also argue that a lot of hate for the new A90 comes from people who have either

a) never owned a stock A80 TT and just youtube/meme'd them their whole life (news flash a stock turbo 2JZ isn't exciting and runs out of puff at 6300)

b) have never owned more than one generation of supra


The A90 is the next chapter in the whole supra story, not a direct modern day A80.

A supra is more than just one generation. It's a series. I'm keen to see what the A90 adds to the series.

Ps. Moto San hinted that on some tracks the A90 is keeping up with the R35. Interesting. (he responded to me on FB around the goodwood car)
It's just like when Klinghoffer first joined the Red Hot Chili Peppers, fans said he wasn't fit for the band because they missed Frusciante(they still do), then fast forward to The Getaway 5 years later, and now he has a following, i believe the same applies here.:popcorn:

Which R35 was the MKV keeping up with?
PicsArt_09-27-02.35.55.jpg
 
 




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