Why I'm NOT Hyped About The New Toyota Supra

[formsracing]

As much as I would like to partake in the wet dream that OP has provided us with, that entire list is obscenely unrealistic. The curb weight alone is ridiculous. Also, with an 86x86 engine, you'll be very hard pressed to make that kind of power at 20psi. My Supra is 10.5:1 at 3.0L and made 620hp at 23psi with a 67mm turbo. Sounds more like you're looking for a McLaren 675LT or similar, and that costs a little bit more than 80k. But none of that matters, really. This is a spec discussion for the sake of appeasing a superficial argument that amounts to nothing but numbers on a paper.

Honestly, we need to get off of specs. I completely understand that at this point we can only compare numbers in order to make estimations about what the car will be like but in the end that matters very little. Toyota will give this car the specs it needs to satisfy drivers, not armchair warriors.

This car needs to feel good. The MKIV is, and always has been, a unique experience. Very different to an R33, or an NSX, or a 3000GT, etc. The Supra was the perfect balance of GT and driver's car. It took long drives well, the steering was easy to maneuver and predictable, and it was very balanced, despite its fairly heavy curb weight. People have all but forgotten what that even means. I see complaints about the 86 all day long, but I dare anyone to show me a new car even close to it's MSRP that is even half as balanced, let alone has a chassis as well sorted. Complain about power all you want, you just don’t get it. I’ve driven 86s and Supras on and off track for years now, along with a litany of other cars, and there’s always a distinctive line that can be drawn from the MKIV to the 86. It’s the feel of the thing. It’s the attention to detail in creating chassis feel and tuning damping, the cars’ ease of rotation and predictability, and the quintessentially satisfying rear-drive experience.

Toyota knows how to make a driver’s car, of this I am vehemently sure. And I have no doubt that they will provide that for us in the MKV Supra. Haters and doubters be damned.

I have to respectively agree and also disagree. I agree this must have the feel and balance Toyota is capable of, that is unquestionable. However, I disagree that feel alone would suffice. In today's world of performance cars, this car needs to not only have the feel, but also the numbers to back it up. If this is just going to be a moderately faster 86, then it will be a failure no matter what price.

We're not in the 90s anymore. What the Supra was and what it's competitors were in that era are no more now. Realistically, if Toyota is really positioning the Supra at the top of its 3 model performance tier, this car at the very minimum needs to compete favorably in objective performance metrics with the likes of the current gen Cayman S, M4, and base C7.

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[Sun Devil]

I find it difficult to like cars that blur the line between luxury and performance. I like one or the other .... not some mix that tries to be both. The rawness and simplicity is why I loved the FR-S. Especially the 13. It was raw and decidedly built for fun. The shift light is so cool. Center tach.

I prefer manuals, exposed carbon fiber, exposed aluminum, noisy interior with less sound deadening, great seats with extra bolstering, light weight, decent sounding exhaust, etc. etc. What I don't need is more cup holders, nav, heated seats, dual zone temp, etc. Obviously I just want a weekend car that isn't numb. If you want a car to do double duty ..... sure .... Lexus has it.

 

[Guff]

I have to respectively agree and also disagree. I agree this must have the feel and balance Toyota is capable of, that is unquestionable. However, I disagree that feel alone would suffice. In today's world of performance cars, this car needs to not only have the feel, but also the numbers to back it up. If this is just going to be a moderately faster 86, then it will be a failure no matter what price.

We're not in the 90s anymore. What the Supra was and what it's competitors were in that era are no more now. Realistically, if Toyota is really positioning the Supra at the top of its 3 model performance tier, this car at the very minimum needs to compete favorably in objective performance metrics with the likes of the current gen Cayman S, M4, and base C7.

Definitely. It needs the power as well to supplement good driving character. The MKIV was a fast car as well, especially for it's time, and I'm sure Toyota understands that the MKV will have a fair few very potent competitors. The Z51 Corvette especially, at just $~51k. But I still believe that the power number will be derived by constant testing and retesting with various power levels and configurations in order to achieve a cohesive package, rather than "It needs to have more horsepower than xxx car, otherwise it's a total failure" That line of thinking stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of how cars drive in general. A car with less horsepower (to a reasonable extent ofc) is more than capable of being not only better-driving, but also plain faster, than another car, through a variety of factors (weight, gearing, torque curve etc).

Toyota, of course, has a brilliant engineering team; and very smart project leaders, whom myself and my peers have been lucky enough to speak to on multiple occasions. They are very much tapped into our community and are constantly reading forum posts just like this in order to steer development in the right direction. That's why I have so much confidence in their ability to pull this off for us. So, I'll stay optimistic until either I have egg on my face or I'm giggling away in the driver's seat of a new Supra.

 

[Sun Devil]

Definitely. It needs the power as well to supplement good driving character. The MKIV was a fast car as well, especially for it's time, and I'm sure Toyota understands that the MKV will have a fair few very potent competitors. The Z51 Corvette especially, at just $~51k. But I still believe that the power number will be derived by constant testing and retesting with various power levels and configurations in order to achieve a cohesive package, rather than "It needs to have more horsepower than xxx car, otherwise it's a total failure" That line of thinking stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of how cars drive in general. A car with less horsepower (to a reasonable extent ofc) is more than capable of being not only better-driving, but also plain faster, than another car, through a variety of factors (weight, gearing, torque curve etc).

Toyota, of course, has a brilliant engineering team; and very smart project leaders, whom myself and my peers have been lucky enough to speak to on multiple occasions. They are very much tapped into our community and are constantly reading forum posts just like this in order to steer development in the right direction. That's why I have so much confidence in their ability to pull this off for us. So, I'll stay optimistic until either I have egg on my face or I'm giggling away in the driver's seat of a new Supra.

Well said.

 

[Sunspot]

yes Exactly!!! If they give us a gutless 2+2 bimyota, I'm going to buy a spider monkey.......train him to squeeze oranges until they burst..command him to rupture my gonads...and mail said gonads to the new Toyota headquarters.

 

[vb22]

More people ranting about how this car is going to suck.

 

[Jesse]

As much as I would like to partake in the wet dream that OP has provided us with, that entire list is obscenely unrealistic. The curb weight alone is ridiculous. Also, with an 86x86 engine, you'll be very hard pressed to make that kind of power at 20psi. My Supra is 10.5:1 at 3.0L and made 620hp at 23psi with a 67mm turbo. Sounds more like you're looking for a McLaren 675LT or similar, and that costs a little bit more than 80k. But none of that matters, really. This is a spec discussion for the sake of appeasing a superficial argument that amounts to nothing but numbers on a paper.

Honestly, we need to get off of specs. I completely understand that at this point we can only compare numbers in order to make estimations about what the car will be like but in the end that matters very little. Toyota will give this car the specs it needs to satisfy drivers, not armchair warriors.

This car needs to feel good. The MKIV is, and always has been, a unique experience. Very different to an R33, or an NSX, or a 3000GT, etc. The Supra was the perfect balance of GT and driver's car. It took long drives well, the steering was easy to maneuver and predictable, and it was very balanced, despite its fairly heavy curb weight. People have all but forgotten what that even means. I see complaints about the 86 all day long, but I dare anyone to show me a new car even close to it's MSRP that is even half as balanced, let alone has a chassis as well sorted. Complain about power all you want, you just don’t get it. I’ve driven 86s and Supras on and off track for years now, along with a litany of other cars, and there’s always a distinctive line that can be drawn from the MKIV to the 86. It’s the feel of the thing. It’s the attention to detail in creating chassis feel and tuning damping, the cars’ ease of rotation and predictability, and the quintessentially satisfying rear-drive experience.

Toyota knows how to make a driver’s car, of this I am vehemently sure. And I have no doubt that they will provide that for us in the MKV Supra. Haters and doubters be damned.

I am optimistic but I am also a realist. We all know that this is going to be conservative. And no doubt it will be a driver's car but will it be a "Industry Changer?".

I feel that this horsepower is possible with 86x86 square with 20psi. I think the technology in Otto and Atkinson Cycle makes it possible.

Also your 2JZ does not have Direct injection. This alone will add power gains.

I believe in "having your cake and eating it too". Yes the original $84,850.00 is maybe a little cheap for what I listed, but look at Nissan's achievement with the GT-R. The numbers alone for the GT-R suggest a $200,000.00 Price range and yet when it was released it MSRP'ed for $69,850.00. This shocked the whole super car world. The GT-R was a total success.

Toyota needs to change the common thinking with the staple of the Supra and what it is. This would confirm and make the name of "Toyota the Greatest car Manufacture in the World".

I am a true Toyota fan and if it has a Toyota Logo I will follow it no matter how disappointing it might be, but I don't feel like I will refinance my house to buy a Supra because of how amazing it will be.

 

[mas921]

My estimation, price range will be same as Lexus RC350.

i Really hope so..

 

[mas921]

More people ranting about how this car is going to suck.

i smell click baits; in any case i won't feed the trolls

 

[Jesse]

Let me know what you guy's think?

Curb Weight

• 3050 lbs / 1385 kg
• Distribution F/R % : 48/52

Yes this seem very light but

Does the Supra need a tone of Sound Deadening? (My Opinion - No)
Does it need Lane departure control? (My Opinion - No)
Does it need Electric Seats? (My Opinion - No)
Does it need Climate Control? (My Opinion - No)
Does it need a Fancy Stereo? (My Opinion - No)
Does it need Active Aero? (My Opinion - No)

I think the interior of the Supra doesn't have to be fancy at all. The true concept of a Supra is a Race Car made road legal.

LFA

LFA Weight : 3,263 lbs

177 inches long | 75 inches wide | 48 inches tall

LC500

LC500 Weight : 4,435 lbs

187.5 inches long | 75.6 inches wide | 53 inches tall

My Suggestion

Fantasy Supra : 3,050 lbs

176 inches long | 72 inches wide | 48 inches tall

The Math

LFA Comparison

So if we were to take the weight of the LFA and divide it by width

3,263/75 = 43.50 lbs per Inch Width

Now times that by my width

43.50 x 72 = 3,132 lbs

Now take 3,132 lbs divide that by the length of the LFA

3,132/177 = 17.69 lbs per Inch Length

Now times that by my length

17.43 x 176 = 3,113.44 lbs

Weight to lose : 63 lbs

(Now take out all the luxuries the LFA has and we now have what I originally came to 3,050 lbs)

LC500 Comparison

So now if we were to take the weight of the LC500 and divide it by width

4,435/75.6 = 58.66 lbs per Inch Width

Now times that by my width

58.66 x 72 = 4,223.52 lbs per Inch Width

Now take 4,223.52 lbs divide that by the height of the LC500

4,223.52/53 = 79.69 lbs per Inch Height

Now times that by my height

79.69 x 48 = 3,825.12 lbs

Now take 3,825.12 lbs divide that by the length of the LC500

3,825.12/187.5 = 20.40 lbs per Inch Length

Now times that by my length

20.40 x 176 = 3,590.40 lbs

Weight to lose : 540 lbs

(Now take out all the luxuries the LC500 has and add more Carbon Fiber we now have what I originally came to 3,050 lbs)

Use Design Cues from the LC500 and LFA.

 

[Guff]

I think I should make a video rant about how great the Supra is going to be to balance this out.

 

[mas921]

as much as i love the JZA80 Supra; but it had a torsional rigidity of ~8100 nm/deg (IIRC it was on some jap. magazine eons ago). the F82 M4 has a ridiculously high rigidity of ~40,000 nm/deg. i bet the J29 would be at least 5x as rigid as the A80.(1st reason why am glad BMW is involved)

and it's not just the chassis, the suspension (geometry not simply the springs/shocks) of old cars are ancient to say the least. on one of MotoIQ builds they were building a R32 GT-R, and the cosworth guy on the team emphasized how bad the front suspension geometry was -by today's standards-. and this is the, then race winning R32 GT-R.

IMHO the 2JZ is a T-Rex!! its the King, but from 65M. years ago... Formula-D pro Ryan tureck on one of his recent youtube videos stated that he can't use his 2jz-swapped-86 show car much, because that one overheats its front -race- radiator in 2 laps! his competition car has a rear mounted radiator. The 2jz can hold a lot of power, and traps a lot of heat too. Iron blocks are the 90's technique for reliable big power. BMW's N54 was good for +800whp without touching the long block, and its ~150lb's lighter than a 2jz. (2nd reason why am glad BMW is involved). if the J29 will be powered by the B58/S58 engine, then that's great news as its the replacement of the N54, with a fricken closed deck!

 

[vb22]

More hate videos

 

[Guff]

Ugh, yuck. Maybe I will make that pro-Supra video after all.

If I don't have it done in a week, please harass me about it. I need to defend our honor!

 

[Villa Jonny]

These hate videos are ridiculous. These JDM fanboys need to calm down and wait to bash the car when it's officially released and driven.

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