ZF8 Automatic transmission Vs. the manual 6 speed

[BMWAF]

Sure, there are the "are you crazy?" scenarios like choosing the auto over the manual like in a Miata or BRZ/86.

I'm not really sure how you divorce this mentality for arguably much nicer cars. The Miata and 86 are the most overrated cars in history.

I don’t think the market for manuals will disappear anytime soon. I also don’t think the manual Supra will be significantly more desire than the auto in 10 years.

I guess we have all placed our bets.

Of course, if you took a straw poll of non-owners (so as to avoid confirmation bias that is rife) I think you will find the manual is more desirable right now. I'll go further and say again: If the Supra was manual only for the first few years and was then released as an automatic, these threads would all look vastly different! In fact, it might actually have been a shrewd marketing strategy on Toyota's part as they literally created a market for the automatic which before release, lets face it, pretty much didn't exist!

Sponsored

 

[BA9092]

I'm not really sure how you divorce this mentality for arguably much nicer cars. The Miata and 86 are the most overrated cars in history.

Don't shoot the messenger. You're just disagreeing with countless automotive journalists and professional drivers worldwide.

 

[BMWAF]

Don't shoot the messenger. You're just disagreeing with countless automotive journalists and professional drivers worldwide.

LOL. Unlike some snowflakes, I go my own way and couldn't give a fuck what the media or anyone else has to say on the matter. I've driven them both and found them to be under powered and underwhelming. Good for the price maybe, but otherwise pretty pedestrian. As for the opinion of journalists, lets not forget that arguably the most famous car journalist of our time described the Supra as just, whelming.

Also, if "countless journalists and professional drivers" includes spastics from YouTube.. well, defense rests. ?

 

[djf]

LOL. Unlike some snowflakes, I go my own way and couldn't give a fuck what the media or anyone else has to say on the matter. I've driven them both and found them to be under powered and underwhelming. Good for the price maybe, but otherwise pretty pedestrian. As for the opinion of journalists, lets not forget that arguably the most famous car journalist of our time described the Supra as just, whelming.

Also, if "countless journalists and professional drivers" includes spastics from YouTube.. well, defense rests. ?

Man you are miserable.

 

[FLtrackdays]

LOL. Unlike some snowflakes, I go my own way and couldn't give a fuck what the media or anyone else has to say on the matter. I've driven them both and found them to be under powered and underwhelming. Good for the price maybe, but otherwise pretty pedestrian. As for the opinion of journalists, lets not forget that arguably the most famous car journalist of our time described the Supra as just, whelming.

Also, if "countless journalists and professional drivers" includes spastics from YouTube.. well, defense rests. ?

Dude…. you gotta drive one fast. They’er like flying gocarts (or annoying mosquitos - depending on your take) on track! Those fuckers don’t even brake in areas I’m fighting drifting vs trail braking. It’s fun watching a 3500lbs + car sink in the rear view mirror coming out of an apex. It’s a completely different experience.

Even in town (which I shouldn’t be doing ?), I’ll dive into a corner knowing some fat muscle car behind me doesn't have a chance of staying close or catching up. Once you’ve come out of a corner with much higher exit speed, it’s hard for even the biggest HP car to catch up. They eventually will if the runway is long enough. But knowing there’s another corner ahead ? - so much fun my brotha from down under ?

 

[BMWAF]

Man you are miserable.

You should see me on a bad day.

Dude…. you gotta drive one fast. They’er like flying gocarts (or annoying mosquitos - depending on your take) on track! Those fuckers don’t even brake in areas I’m fighting drifting vs trail braking. Absolute blast on track!! It’s fun watching a 3500lbs + car sink in the rear view mirror coming out of an apex. It’s a completely different experience.

Even in town (which I shouldn’t be doing ?), I’ll dive into a corner knowing some fat muscle car behind me doesn't have a chance of staying close or catching up. Once you’ve come out of a corner with much higher exit speed, it’s hard for even the biggest HP car to catch up. They eventually will if the runway is long enough. But knowing there’s another corner ahead ? - so much fun my brotha from down under ?

Haha.. Years back I test drove a first generation 86 (automatic) and it was seriously awful. Slow. Boring. Dull, cheap interior. I hated it. Now, I hear they've come a long way since then but meh, they're just not for me. And here in Australia they're really our 2.0 Supra.

A few years later, I test drove an MX-5 and then an MX-5 RF and was genuinely hoping either could replace my Type R. I went on a long, spirited test drive (no sales guy onboard) on roads I knew and loved to drive and I just wasn't feeling it. Even with the top down at speed I just felt wanting. After the test drive, I re-drove the same roads in my FN2 and found it to be a lot more fun. While the Type R is also under-powered, the turn in was much better, as was the noise from the 8600rpm gear changes. It felt makedly faster too. Now I know Type-Rs are also under-powered (and the FN2 is literally the most hated variant), but I found that the Miata just couldn't hold a candle to it.

Just to round out the story, I wanted to test drive a FK8 Type R which I really liked, but Honda Australia thought they were Ferarri's and made test driving them very diffiult so I passed on it. I dare say, if they had've given me a test drive I'd be posting in a different forum and saving a lot of people here from my unpopular opinons, lol.

It wasn't until the manual Supra presented itself that I finally found a car I wanted to upgrade to, albeit a few tiers beyond where I was coming from.

 

[vlad]

it will be interesting to see the future.
I think the newer autos 2023+ are going to be fairly rare and will hold there value well. Majority of cars coming out are manual trans. Prob by end of production say it will be 70/30 auto/ manual. Right now there's prob a $3-5k price difference in the market manuals being more.

That’s a good point. When I was waiting for an auto to appear earlier this year, Toyota’s inventory page was 80% manual within a 500 mile range of me. I counted them. New autos are now hard to find, especially if you’re picky about the color and options.

 

[vlad]

Lol, it's also a car that gets more attention than a Ferrari. It catches a lot of attention, regardless of the transmission inside. Both are fun.

EDIT: The goal for me would be to have the Supra auto and have something else as manual - purpose built to be manual, i.e. FK8/FL5 Type R or a BRZ/FRS with a blower.

The FL5 is an awesome car. If I needed to buy a 4 door, that’s what I’d get. A combo of auto Supra + FL5 would complement each other very nicely.

 

[XtremeMaC]

You should see me on a bad day.



Haha.. Years back I test drove a first generation 86 (automatic) and it was seriously awful. Slow. Boring. Dull, cheap interior. I hated it. Now, I hear they've come a long way since then but meh, they're just not for me. And here in Australia they're really our 2.0 Supra.

AT on 1st gen FRS/BRZ sucks big time. 0-60 is 1 sec slower than MT. It has 80s AT, not the modern ZF8. I'm sure everyone regretted the AT, including Toyota. ?

It still lacked like at least 40hp but autocross was where it shined and I loved power sliding with it.

It's like a ton lighter and sits lower than Supra and with the right mods it gave you what you wanted..

 

[Kujiwara]

I went thru the same debate last year and ended up with an AT, keep in mind I'm in Vancouver Canada and it's fairly easy to get MT at MSRP so price was not the decision factor, I've had just short of a dozen MT cars and still currently have 2 fun MT cars so that affected decision too. I did not look into the Supra at all until the MT was unveiled but everyday when I drive my AT I've been happy, even weekend drives it's plenty fun. But here is a list to consider

Pricing: MT vs AT (what's the situation like at your place), are you gonna regret paying X amount for either?
Do you have other fun MT cars? Especially similar power and RWD
Anyone else in the family driving it regularly? Are they proficient with MT
Track regularly? MT may need clutch upgrade if you're a track rat, AT has been very reliable and it is faster
Do you use it for commuting regularly in a big city?
MT and AT cars do deliver power in a different feel, which do you prefer? aka test drive both for at least 15mins
If it's purely weekend driver, MT will be more enjoyable from an engagement perspective, and it's slightly lighter but you'll need a very sensitive driver to feel it

In terms of "street cred" it's a sexy and fast B58 Zuprrrraaa, a lot of people will love it regard less of if you twist your own knob or now. Those who say "oh it's not even a MT" after taking a peek at a car meet aren't gonna be people who you should care about anyways, they'll probs hate on something else even if you have a MT, like they'll say their stage 9 Golf R is quicker to 60.

 

[BA9092]

I went thru the same debate last year and ended up with an AT, keep in mind I'm in Vancouver Canada and it's fairly easy to get MT at MSRP so price was not the decision factor, I've had just short of a dozen MT cars and still currently have 2 fun MT cars so that affected decision too. I did not look into the Supra at all until the MT was unveiled but everyday when I drive my AT I've been happy, even weekend drives it's plenty fun. But here is a list to consider

Pricing: MT vs AT (what's the situation like at your place), are you gonna regret paying X amount for either?
Do you have other fun MT cars? Especially similar power and RWD
Anyone else in the family driving it regularly? Are they proficient with MT
Track regularly? MT may need clutch upgrade if you're a track rat, AT has been very reliable and it is faster
Do you use it for commuting regularly in a big city?
MT and AT cars do deliver power in a different feel, which do you prefer? aka test drive both for at least 15mins
If it's purely weekend driver, MT will be more enjoyable from an engagement perspective, and it's slightly lighter but you'll need a very sensitive driver to feel it

In terms of "street cred" it's a sexy and fast B58 Zuprrrraaa, a lot of people will love it regard less of if you twist your own knob or now. Those who say "oh it's not even a MT" after taking a peek at a car meet aren't gonna be people who you should care about anyways, they'll probs hate on something else even if you have a MT, like they'll say their stage 9 Golf R is quicker to 60.

Luckily I bought mine back in August of 2020 that came with a $3k rebate on top of the invoice. Both MT and AT became more expensive since and with ADM's everywhere.

The only car I've owned that felt anything remotely like the Supra was my 370Z. Yes, it was an MT. So was my '11 Mustang GT, but only in terms of power. Everything else about that car sucked.

I've driven manual since I was 20, but sadly never taught myself how to heal-toe. To my defense I grew up in NY and now live in Dallas. Neither are MT friendly cities. Lol.

The only thing I've tracked was a friend's GTR. Too big, too heavy and too much power for a 1.5 mile winding track.

But I probably differ with a lot of people. I bought my cars for fun and pleasure. I never had intentions of racing or competitive driving so that never interfered with my decisions.

I've always commuted in manual cars until now. Never really had any issues as I actually enjoyed it.

15 minutes is hardy a test drive though. Nowadays, especially with Turo, we can relatively easily drive it for much longer. I actually rented a Supra in my city for a weekend from Turo and spent the whole weekend with it driving in different streets, scenarios, daytime, night time, highway, heavy traffic, etc. That helped a lot in firming my decision.

MT and AT definitely deliver power differently. I can't speak for the Supra, but especially turbo cars tend to fall off boost if you don't shift quick enough. I had that issue with my DSG Golf R compared to my MT GTI.

If it's your only car or you drive it daily in commuter traffic, I'd seriously consider the AT. But if it's simply a fun addition to your collection, I'd definitely consider the MT.

There's going to be a lot of opinions on street cred. I think it maybe too early to determine whether it'll someday show up in a car meet and have people praise it like they do the MK4 nowadays. Lots of JDM cars took time before they became icons. That's not to say the MK5 will become one though. Time will tell...

I honestly haven't seen this much "hate" for the AT since the MK5 was first introduced with "but it's a BMW?!" initial cumbrance. Unlike some people, I do welcome both. We have nearly 300 members here in Texas, some MT but most AT, who all get along and we don't talk shit about one another because of our transmission choices. But people love to hate, love to stir the pot and create drama for nothing. It's why reality TV is so popular. A little banter and discussion is fun, as long as we don't take it too far.

Car enthusiasts should come together to celebrate every car and every build. It's the one thing we can all share and enjoy in a world divided with politics and religions.

 

[FLtrackdays]

AT on 1st gen FRS/BRZ sucks big time. 0-60 is 1 sec slower than MT. It has 80s AT, not the modern ZF8. I'm sure everyone regretted the AT, including Toyota. ?

It still lacked like at least 40hp but autocross was where it shined and I loved power sliding with it.

It's like a ton lighter and sits lower than Supra and with the right mods it gave you what you wanted..

I’d agree the MX5 with auto sucks as well. Any lower HP car just isn’t the same. They almost have to be manuals to be serious fun, imo. And you’ve got to throw some aftermarket sway bars on the MX5 to get the most out of her.

Not hating, just sayin…

Car enthusiasts should come together to celebrate every car and every build. It's the one thing we can all share and enjoy in a world divided with politics and religions.

Amen from one car lovin brotha to anotha ?

Haha.. Years back I test drove a first generation 86 (automatic) and it was seriously awful. Slow. Boring. Dull, cheap interior. I hated it. Now, I hear they've come a long way since then but meh, they're just not for me. And here in Australia they're really our 2.0 Supra.

A few years later, I test drove an MX-5 and then an MX-5 RF and was genuinely hoping either could replace my Type R. I went on a long, spirited test drive (no sales guy onboard) on roads I knew and loved to drive and I just wasn't feeling it. Even with the top down at speed I just felt wanting. After the test drive, I re-drove the same roads in my FN2 and found it to be a lot more fun. While the Type R is also under-powered, the turn in was much better, as was the noise from the 8600rpm gear changes. It felt makedly faster too. Now I know Type-Rs are also under-powered (and the FN2 is literally the most hated variant), but I found that the Miata just couldn't hold a candle to it.

Just to round out the story, I wanted to test drive a FK8 Type R which I really liked, but Honda Australia thought they were Ferarri's and made test driving them very diffiult so I passed on it. I dare say, if they had've given me a test drive I'd be posting in a different forum and saving a lot of people here from my unpopular opinons, lol.

It wasn't until the manual Supra presented itself that I finally found a car I wanted to upgrade to, albeit a few tiers beyond where I was coming from.

If they didn’t come out with the ND (so fucking lightweight) and I didn’t have friends racing these little things, I’d probably think differently as well.

Then Honda introduced the S2000 - OMG…. I was in REV heaven ? We had Mustangs as well. All mandatory manuals. The S2K really hit the sweet spot. Gutted and made it a dedicated track car. We should have bought two of them. One OEM to keep… So the ND MX5 manual we said we’ll never do that again. Only 3 cars we regret we sold; the S2K, RX7, and 4 door manual M3. The others, not so much.

 

[mdpalmer]

Car enthusiasts should come together to celebrate every car and every build. It's the one thing we can all share and enjoy in a world divided with politics and religions.

Your post resonates with me, but this last statement you made is something I really believe in. A real enthusiast would understand that every owner has their preferences and it doesn't make their choices objectively better or worse. If anyone gives you crap about your car and how its setup thats their problem, not yours.

I never understood why people hate on others choices, other than its a projection of their own insecurities or character flaws.

I voted MT only because I absolutely love them, I don't care that they are "slower". I enjoy working the gearbox and 3rd pedal it really puts the biggest smile on my face. I've never owned an AT, driven plenty. My girlfriend has an AT A90.

The AT A90 is absolutely the best driving AT experience I've ever had. Its almost too good, in that I feel it takes no effort to go fast. That's the difference between someone who prefers MT versus AT. I enjoy having to put some effort and deliberate thought into gathering speed. This is a personal preference and also reflects my overall approach to life.

I would have voted 70/30 in favor of the MT for your poll OP. I enjoy both cars. As long as you're happy with the car all good. A true enthusiast shouldn't care about someone else's transmission choice IMO.

Happy motoring, the car is really a blast either way.

 

[Natedawg]

LOL. Unlike some snowflakes, I go my own way and couldn't give a fuck what the media or anyone else has to say on the matter. I've driven them both and found them to be under powered and underwhelming. Good for the price maybe, but otherwise pretty pedestrian. As for the opinion of journalists, lets not forget that arguably the most famous car journalist of our time described the Supra as just, whelming.

Also, if "countless journalists and professional drivers" includes spastics from YouTube.. well, defense rests. ?

You must have drove them on the street. which ya is boring.

Go drive one in the smoky mountains or road course. a miata or brz has more than enough power.
BTW is coming from someone that has a Spec miata still. Ran time attack in another miata. And had a 750whp mkiv supra. You don't need much hp to have fun on proper roads. Shit I just got back from a trip from tail of the dragon on my 900lbs harley bagger with 90hp. For a motorcycle it's slow but on the right roads Its great.

 

[Eastwood]

I got a manual bc I liked it and it's in blue.

Hope that helps.

Sponsored