All-new 2023 Nissan Z makes world debut!

[Dannyvandelft]

Why do you say that? A $5k increase sounds reasonable to me. It's just a 370z with a bodykit after all.

Yeah I guess that's a good point to look at it like that.

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[Sigg]

It's always welcoming to have more power but I think the Supra is fine the way it is for it's current chassis tune. There is always the possibility of a few more HP in future model years. I would not be surprised in the least if Toyota/BMW had a small power bump in the future to keep up with the competition. 2022 Supra announcements are still pending so there is probably a very small possibility for a HP bump.

Personally I am not as interested in a horsepower war between the Supra and the Z. It's the overall chassis balance, driving dynamics, steering feel and braking I would be interested in. The 2021 Supra's chassis tuning, steering, braking is much better than the 370Z I owned back in the day. The new Z would have to have a LOT better chassis tuning brakes than the 370Z. The brakes were pitiful. Then there is the transmission. I would consider the Supra's ZF automatic transmission the gold standard for torque converter transmissions. The A90 auto transmission is phenomenal, nearly as good as my 911's PDK.

All good points.
A little 5% increase of whp and wtq would be noticed on paper, and mainly for ego, but I still wish for it!

 

[Guff]

Based on dyno’s, the a90 3.0 easily makes 400+ crank horsepower. I think it’s important to note that when making a comparison with the (reported) 400hp in the new Z. But for advertising purposes, those that look on the surface level will see “382 vs 400”, which isn’t necessarily the entire story here.

It's worth mentioning, the Q60 Red Sport 400 dynos at about 350/350 to the wheels on a Dynojet.

https://www.sp-power.com/blog/infiniti-q60-redsport-dyno-pulls

 

[Dannyvandelft]

It's worth mentioning, the Q60 Red Sport 400 dynos at about 350/350 to the wheels on a Dynojet.

https://www.sp-power.com/blog/infiniti-q60-redsport-dyno-pulls

So that's already less than the 2021 supra

 

[Guff]

So that's already less than the 2021 supra

Hell, some 2020s were even making more whp on a Dynojet. B58 has always been a torque monster though.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Hell, some 2020s were even making more whp on a Dynojet. B58 has always been a torque monster though.

Yup. And torque wins races.

 

[supraboi]

@Guff, do you think Toyota will cut the 2.0 loose after the Z arrivals on the scene?

 

[Islindur]

1270kg 400Z? Sure lol. My 86 weights around 2800lbs lol. If 400Z is lighter than 1500kg in basic trim and manual with its twin turbo V6 it will be very good already.

 

[Axix23]

I have never been a fan of Nissans or been fascinated with 350z, 370z, or etc. I guess it’s never been my personal preference. I don’t care how much hp they come with. 400z looks like an ugly looking Telsa with a 2 door....

 

[max]

Elephant in the room......

Regardless of specs. such as: curb weight, HP, Torque, etc. who believes Toyota will make a price shift with the Supra to ensure these don't take away sales? Maybe 3 - 5 K more wiggle room at the dealer?

If Nissan does offer a manual, will this force Toyota's hand?

 

[Axix23]

Elephant in the room......

Regardless of specs. such as: curb weight, HP, Torque, etc. who believes Toyota will make a price shift with the Supra to ensure these don't take away sales? Maybe 3 - 5 K more wiggle room at the dealer?

If Nissan does offer a manual, will this force Toyota's hand?

nope lol Sorry, the car won’t be cheaper so you can afford it.....

 

[max]

Statement wasn't made for the sake of "affordability". It was based upon the founding principles of business; supply and demand. Economics 101 or as it was called when I took it in college, "Eco. 101".

If Nissan offers a manual/similar or better performance at a cheaper price point (supply), then some of the desire (demand) for the Supra may disappear.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

Elephant in the room......

Regardless of specs. such as: curb weight, HP, Torque, etc. who believes Toyota will make a price shift with the Supra to ensure these don't take away sales? Maybe 3 - 5 K more wiggle room at the dealer?

If Nissan does offer a manual, will this force Toyota's hand?

Statement wasn't made for the sake of "affordability". It was based upon the founding principles of business; supply and demand. Economics 101 or as it was called when I took it in college, "Eco. 101".

If Nissan offers a manual/similar or better performance at a cheaper price point (supply), then some of the desire (demand) for the Supra may disappear.

It wouldn't be the first time Toyota lower the MSRP.

https://www.autotrader.com/toyota/supra/1996

Hatchback	Original MSRP / Price	Engine	Horsepower	City MPG / Hwy MPG	Transmission	Drive
Supra 3dr LB Base Auto	$39,500 / N/A	6 Cylinder		N/A	5-Speed Manual / 4-Speed Automatic	RWD
Supra 3dr LB Base Auto w/Sport Roof	$42,000 / N/A	6 Cylinder		N/A	5-Speed Manual / 4-Speed Automatic	RWD
Supra 3dr LB Base Manual	$38,600 / N/A	6 Cylinder		N/A	5-Speed Manual / 4-Speed Automatic	RWD
Supra 3dr LB Base Manual w/Sport Roof	$41,100 / N/A	6 Cylinder		N/A	5-Speed Manual / 4-Speed Automatic	RWD
Supra 3dr LB Turbo Auto w/Sport Roof	$50,400 / N/A

https://www.autotrader.com/toyota/supra/1997

Hatchback	Original MSRP / Price	Engine	Horsepower	City MPG / Hwy MPG	Transmission	Drive
Supra 3dr LB 15th Anniv Auto	$30,400 / N/A	6 Cylinder	220	18 / 24	5-Speed Manual / 4-Speed Automatic	RWD
Supra 3dr LB 15th Anniv Manual	$29,500 / N/A	6 Cylinder	220	N/A	5-Speed Manual / 4-Speed Automatic	RWD
Supra 3dr LB 15th Anniv Sport Roof Auto	$34,900 / N/A	6 Cylinder	220	18 / 24	5-Speed Manual / 4-Speed Automatic	RWD
Supra 3dr LB 15th Anniv Sport Roof Manual	$34,000 / N/A	6 Cylinder	220	N/A	5-Speed Manual / 4-Speed Automatic	RWD
Supra 3dr LB 15th Anniv Turbo Auto	$38,200 / N/A	6 Cylinder Turbo	210	18 / 23	6-Speed Manual / 4-Speed Automatic	RWD
Supra 3dr LB 15th Anniv Turbo Manual	$39,900 / N/A

 

[Axix23]

Statement wasn't made for the sake of "affordability". It was based upon the founding principles of business; supply and demand. Economics 101 or as it was called when I took it in college, "Eco. 101".

If Nissan offers a manual/similar or better performance at a cheaper price point (supply), then some of the desire (demand) for the Supra may disappear.

A lot of the Supra fan base has been following the Supra from the beginning of time. And so does the Nissan Z followers. Regardless of the other car, Supras and the Nissan Z’s will sell regardless of the price...

I am really hoping the Nissan Z will filter out some of the non Supra enthusiasts who just want the next best new sports car with power for the cheapest price.......

 

[max]

It wouldn't be the first time Toyota lower the MSRP.

Darn good research! Kind of in the ballpark of what I was saying. Remember this because I bought a 13B RX7 Turbo which hit the market same time as the Supra Mk4 and the 300Z turbo and Mitsu - 3000GT turbo.

Major war with dealers at the time for good reason: marketplace competition!! but then came a silent corvette killer known as the GMC Cyclone...................

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