Car excessively burning oil?

[wfujay]

That is what I found out too. Something about the sulfur in our gas compared to the EU. I ended up using Redline 5w-30 which is LL01 and exceeds every other criteria

Redline 5w30 is "suitable" for LL01, but it doesn't carry the official approval. It's a great oil though so I wouldn't worry about it.

But yes, LL04 is a spec mostly designed for diesels with particulate filters to keep the exhausts clean, but it doesn't protect against high sulfur content as well as LL01. Europe has low sulfur gas, and here in the US, we have high sulfur gas. I called Pennzoil directly to inquire about this, and they told me to NOT use the LL04 (L branded) Euro spec and instead use the non-L Euro spec in our engines which is LL01.

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[Munkeeboi]

Yup, you are right. The redline bottle says recommended for BMW LL-01

good info. As stated earlier, I could not find the Euro non-L 5w-30 version anywhere either

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w30 (non L spec) is impossible to find. I had to go with 5w40 for this reason. Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5w30 (LL04) is technically the wrong spec for a US gasoline BMW engine. I'm sure you can run it...but the non L spec (LL01) is the correct spec to get for our cars. I'm fine with 5w40 anyway as it gets extremely hot in the summers here and would hold up better.

That is what I found out too. Something about the sulfur in our gas compared to the EU. I ended up using Redline 5w-30 which is LL01 and exceeds every other criteria

Redline 5w30 is "suitable" for LL01, but it doesn't carry the official approval. It's a great oil though so I wouldn't worry about it.

But yes, LL04 is a spec mostly designed for diesels with particulate filters to keep the exhausts clean, but it doesn't protect against high sulfur content as well as LL01. Europe has low sulfur gas, and here in the US, we have high sulfur gas. I called Pennzoil directly to inquire about this, and they told me to NOT use the LL04 (L branded) Euro spec and instead use the non-L Euro spec in our engines which is LL01.

A few minor misconceptions. In 2017 the USA also switched to a low sulphur gasoline, low enough it's fine to use.
The LL-04 is an improved LL-01 so diesels can ALSO use it, not ONLY diesels. LL-04 meets, and exceeds LL-01.

 

[wfujay]

A few minor misconceptions. In 2017 the USA also switched to a low sulphur gasoline, low enough it's fine to use.
The LL-04 is an improved LL-01 so diesels can ALSO use it, not ONLY diesels. LL-04 meets, and exceeds LL-01.

Weird. I spoke to a Pennzoil engineer directly (out of uncertainty) and he specifically stated not to use the L brand. He also said it was discontinued. He never mentioned that it exceeded the LL01 spec, only that it was formulated for diesels with particulate filters and not to use it here.

Also, I found a BMW TIS document that states not to use it.

http://techtips.alleuro.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/BMW-Oil-Specs-and-Recs.pdf

Longlife-04 oils
These have been developed to guarantee an optimum service life for the particulate filter in diesel
engines. These oils are stipulated for all diesel engines with particulate filter, but may also be used in
almost all other BMW engines. Like Longlife-01 and Longlife-01 FE oils, they satisfy currently BMW's
most stringent quality requirements. Longlife-04 oils must not be used in BMW spark-ignition engines in
countries outside Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway and Liechtenstein).

I'll stick to the proper spec per BMW in 5w40 and not take any chances, which also carries the Porsche A40 approval and holds up better than the 5w30 in high temps.

 

[HookemNC]

Weird. I spoke to a Pennzoil engineer directly (out of uncertainty) and he specifically stated not to use the L brand. He also said it was discontinued. He never mentioned that it exceeded the LL01 spec, only that it was formulated for diesels with particulate filters and not to use it here.

Also, I found a BMW TIS document that states not to use it.

http://techtips.alleuro.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/BMW-Oil-Specs-and-Recs.pdf

Longlife-04 oils
These have been developed to guarantee an optimum service life for the particulate filter in diesel
engines. These oils are stipulated for all diesel engines with particulate filter, but may also be used in
almost all other BMW engines. Like Longlife-01 and Longlife-01 FE oils, they satisfy currently BMW's
most stringent quality requirements. Longlife-04 oils must not be used in BMW spark-ignition engines in
countries outside Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway and Liechtenstein).

I'll stick to the proper spec per BMW in 5w40 and not take any chances, which also carries the Porsche A40 approval and holds up better than the 5w30 in high temps.

That article is from 2005 it looks like. Our gasoline sulfur is now an average of 15ppm as of 2017 and ll04 is definitely good to go. There are posts all over Bob is the oil guy forums with supporting data from a bunch of guys much smarter than I. Granted ll01 is fantastic oil in itself so you can't go wrong either way.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

That article is from 2005 it looks like. Our gasoline sulfur is now an average of 15ppm as of 2017 and ll04 is definitely good to go. There are posts all over Bob is the oil guy forums with supporting data from a bunch of guys much smarter than I. Granted ll01 is fantastic oil in itself so you can't go wrong either way.

Exactly. And it's even down to 10 PPM now.

 

[satx_phantom]

You will not void your warranty! Did you read the GR Supra owners manual? Toyota is approving a heavier weight oil as a safe alternative. See manual excerpt below. Also as you can see from the graph the 0w-20 is better for below zero temperatures but falls short in the hotter climates.

Let’s be honest these cars will rarely see below zero use, most of the driving will be during warmer weather days. Be informed my friend and make your decisions based on facts and not internet hearsay.

-RJM

It may be important to refer to the beginning of the highlighted section on the preceding page (pg. 297) for context, as it explicitly limits use of the "Alternative engine oil types," including the one you mentioned (0W-30), to up to 1 US quart/liter if the Toyota Genuine Motor Oil SN 0W-20 C5 for GR Toyota Supra isn't otherwise available. I am by no means an expert, and I concede that there are others on here who may well be, but I personally wouldn't vary from the manual on this subject out of caution that it may be used against me should an engine problem develop in the future.

 

[wfujay]

That article is from 2005 it looks like. Our gasoline sulfur is now an average of 15ppm as of 2017 and ll04 is definitely good to go. There are posts all over Bob is the oil guy forums with supporting data from a bunch of guys much smarter than I. Granted ll01 is fantastic oil in itself so you can't go wrong either way.

Found a 2019 TIS manual for the G29 Z4 that says the same. I very seriously doubt it matters if our gas is that low in sulphur, but it seems BMW's standpoint on LL04 hasn't changed. I'll err on the side of caution still.

 

[SavageGTR34]

Guys I did a 10 year stint at a Toyota Dealership in northern IN and one of the things we pointed out constantly was 1. the pink coolant was crap and caused more harm then good and was constantly causing seal leaks and premature wear (yes WAY more then weeping) on water pumps an such even in the 2GR-FE an that v6 was a beast. An 2nd was that the 0-20 was a joke an customer even in the Camrys were consuming oil.

Now here's the rub. The regional tech that would have to come to the shop to approve certain warranty jobs was the one who told us DIRECTLY that using 0-20 was to appease the crap show we call the EPA. Not one damn customer of ours was told they could go 10k because frankly after 5k an oil that thin....the detergents were gone. We ALWAYS instructed them to change it every 5k vs 10k. Now for those on here talking about switching to 5W30....if you have a massive amount of oil consumption...you DO have a problem an just switching is going to mask a bigger issue. That being said im going to give you some information that can arm you with some bullets in your belt vs the dealer giving you that stupid "well WE need to do a consumption test" bull crap.

This is what I can tell you
1st make a spread sheet I dont care how but make one. Put the following in the upper brackets
Date, Time, Location, outside temp, Altitude/Elevation, miles, current oil level (full, 75%, 50%, 25%)
Lastly how much oil added and the time of when you rechecked level.
2nd TAKE A DAMN PICTURE OF THE OIL LEVEL ON THE infotainment screen. I CANNOT EXPLAIN THIS PART ENOUGH. YOU NEED BEFORE AND AFTER PICS AN IF POSSIBLE MAKE SURE THEY ARE TIME AN DATE STAMPED IF YOU PHONE OR CAMERA ALLOWS THIS OPTION.
(Guys this part is critical because once you hand all this info along with a cheap USB over to the deal with all the pictures and evidence the chances of them trying to say "well we need to do our own consumption test" is greatly reduced because you've done all the leg work and mostly swings in YOUR favor.

NOW for those who switched to 5w30 if you do this an I mean if....DO NOT get some cheap oil...what would I define as cheap...well anything you can get at Walmart. If you do this you need to go full premium such as Redline, Motul (my go to oil), Royal Purple but not a fan of this brand an etc. These are mostly if not all FULL SYNTHETIC blends are have better detergents and additives then most brands you can get at big box stores. If you do make the switch....still perform a consumption test just to cover your butt. Heres the crazy thing about switching that I will also let you know....one thing we were told an even able to verify was that the new Camry engines that take the 0-20 if you are in a warmer climate you can run 5w30 which is DOES show in the manual. Im not talking about the 2.4L they used for a while im talking the engine in the 15s an up.

The manual did specifically state if you were in a warmer climate or performed spirited driving (in a Camry hahahaha) you could switch to 5w30. Now this is where its a bit tricky. You will have people on here say they are nervous about switching an they will keep the original oil an refill with 5/30 or go buy the oil directly from Toyota an do it that way. I will say this a dealer CAN take an oil sample and send it off to a lab. Yes the DO perform this at times. They mostly look for contamination, metals, an I believe like 3 other things but they CAN test viscosity. So be careful because if you show up after having just run 5/30 an they send it off to the lab an see you either ARE currently running that or just did vs putting some miles on the oil, draining an refilling with new 0/20 (half a$$ oil flush) they can and WILL decline any an all coverage for consumption and yes that has happened on the FRS an 3 Camry's an 1 Avalon.

If the manual shows its possible (dont have mine in front of me and cant tell you) then you can switch but realize if you walk into the dealer an say "can I run 5/30" an they say sure won't hurt it but the manual specifically states 0/20....they have just played you an probably screwed you because if they get your info they WILL put a note in the info "customer asked about running 5/30" an once thats set....Toyota now has that info an you cant take it back. I get this consumption is a pain. Im honestly watching my 21 like a hawk but im stuck in a SEMI truck now all over the country with a Supra in storage with just 223 on the clock. But if you do switch to 5/30 its on your own risk guys.

Im not claiming to be an engineer or anything else. Im just sharing my experience an knowledge with you guys and my time of being a Toyota mechanic. You might even trying hitting up a guy named Scotty Kilmer on YT an maybe ask him for Further info. I think he even has a video on oil weights. Hell im only 36 an sort of half a$$ retired from being a mechanic in 2016 (dealer was a nightmare when his grandson took over as GM) but Scotty has been a mechanic long before I was even born an the guy is good.

Ill end this with good luck guys an keep all of us updated. Hope this is just a small number of cases but even 1-5 cases is bad. Also if you do switch make sure to post what oil you switched to and if you having anymore consumption issues, also if you do have a FULL exhaust with DP if you have oil splatters all over your rear bumper.

 

[Motorknut]

That article is from 2005 it looks like. Our gasoline sulfur is now an average of 15ppm as of 2017 and ll04 is definitely good to go. There are posts all over Bob is the oil guy forums with supporting data from a bunch of guys much smarter than I. Granted ll01 is fantastic oil in itself so you can't go wrong either way.

But why would you use LL01 on DI engines if you no longer have high sulphur concerns?

We use euro grade gas in my part of the world, and I make it a point to use LL04 spec oil in all my turbo DI BMWs. Reason being - Low SAPS.

Even when we were in the middle of moving to the lower sulphur fuel grades, most of the owners who obsess over engine oil changed theirs out every 5k km anyway, meaning TBN depletion on LL04 spec wasn’t an issue.

 

[HookemNC]

But why would you use LL01 on DI engines if you no longer have high sulphur concerns?

We use euro grade gas in my part of the world, and I make it a point to use LL04 spec oil in all my turbo DI BMWs. Reason being - Low SAPS.

Even when we were in the middle of moving to the lower sulphur fuel grades, most of the owners who obsess over engine oil changed theirs out every 5k km anyway, meaning TBN depletion on LL04 spec wasn’t an issue.

I don't. I use LL04 myself. Some still run LL01 with excellent results. It's also easier to find stateside.

 

[Throttle monkey]

Not in a supra yet but had a 240i with the b58 which never used a drop of oil and that car was driven hard. Doesn’t make sense for a newer version of the same engine to suddenly start drinking oil...

Has there been any word on the cause?

 

[dethred]

Somewhat of a side note, but for those that did their own first oil change, did you guys see a lot of copper glitter? It's been years since I've done the first oil change on a motor, and don't recall the amount of bearing material in the oil. I didn't see an alarming amount, but it was certainly there, especially on the drain plug. (FYI the only oil I appear to be consuming is blowing through the turbo seals and out my exhaust, but at 2000 miles since the last change the oil level is still at "MAX")

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Somewhat of a side note, but for those that did their own first oil change, did you guys see a lot of copper glitter? It's been years since I've done the first oil change on a motor, and don't recall the amount of bearing material in the oil. I didn't see an alarming amount, but it was certainly there, especially on the drain plug. (FYI the only oil I appear to be consuming is blowing through the turbo seals and out my exhaust, but at 2000 miles since the last change the oil level is still at "MAX")

I did mine. Didn't see anything unusual. Did a Blackstone report, all was normal. I love how easy the Supra is to service.

 

[Islindur]

Not in a supra yet but had a 240i with the b58 which never used a drop of oil and that car was driven hard. Doesn’t make sense for a newer version of the same engine to suddenly start drinking oil...

Has there been any word on the cause?

We in EU got different engine then USA spec 382hp B58. I havent seen complaints on 2020 2port B58 which is what we still got in EU in the Supra.

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