All-new 2023 Nissan Z makes world debut!

JoeDaMechanic

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F1 Silver Arrows

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The pricing on the 2.0 GR Supra was a mistake and should have been ~$38k USD at most.

I see a lot of people thinking that the Z is going to spank the 3.0 but I think otherwise. The new Z's dry weight is 32XX lbs. I don't know how much fluids would change everything but it would definitely creep it closer to the GR Supra. Also note that the new Z is longer and wider than the Z34 which should increase its mass, while keeping the old platform, and slapping in a new twin-turbocharged V6 engine which adds a lot of weight.

The GR Supra has an all-new platform that was specially designed for this car and it's twin, the Z4. The B58 is also way torquier and the Toyota-tuned ZF 8-Speed is objectively better than the Mercedes-Benz 9-Speed. Mind you, the Mercedes-Benz 9-Speed is a REALLY good transmission, it's just that the ZF8HP51 is better.

The only thing going for the Z is the cleaner exterior styling with the lack of fake vents and the manual. Other than that, I fail to see what else it objectively does better as an enthusiast other than price as well, but that's because it's using a platform that dates back to the early 2000's and isn't a brand-spanking new platform that the GR Supra sits on. I'll touch on this later.

I see so many people bitching that the GR Supra is a "reskinned or rebadged BMW", to which they're wrong, but is it worse than a 20 year old platform? I guess some edgy dudes think so. I think what people fail to realize is that both of these cars come with their compromises.

For me, I love the new Z, and I think this dick-measuring contest is childish. Both of these cars are made the way they are because they were given certain parameters to work within. Toyota's beancounters had a bigger say than the CEO and the enthusiast-minded executives, and Nissan is on the brink of extinction but they want to still keep the fire going. Nissan simply has the advantage of having their own dedicated RWD sports car platform. Toyota has nothing viable, and please, don't start saying that the RC or the LC should've been what the new GR Supra should've been based on for FUCKS sakes, because then the GR Supra would've weighed ~400 and ~1000 lbs heavier respectively and all they would've had was their dick in their hands and still the same broke bitches who "got what they wanted" wouldn't have the thing on their driveway because they live in their dad's basement.

My point is this, the new Z is going to be an insane value and given how much I love capitalism, it's going to do its magic and will encourage Toyota to do better with the GR Supra. However, I do not think that the Z will match the GR Supra 3.0 in performance whatsoever. I think people take for granted how insanely strong the GR Supra 3.0 is on paper and on the streets. I do think that the new Z will force Toyota to cut the price of the 2.0 by at the very least ~$5k to make it competitive.
 
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AHP

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However, I do not think that the Z will match the GR Supra 3.0 in performance whatsoever. I think people take for granted how insanely strong the GR Supra 3.0 is on paper and on the streets.



TBH, I for the most part agree/expect that, stock for stock. However.... I'll happily bang gears in the 'slower' car, rather than simply hold the wheel straight in the moderately 'faster' car. We're still out there, and chomping at the bit...
 

F1 Silver Arrows

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TBH, I for the most part agree/expect that, stock for stock. However.... I'll happily bang gears in the 'slower' car, rather than simply hold the wheel straight in the moderately 'faster' car. We're still out there, and chomping at the bit...
I'm with you on that fam. That's why I'm advocating so hard for the manual. That's why I'm also a little bit annoyed that A70TTR or itichaka just fell off the face of the Earth as there isn't anyone to tell Toyota directly what we were thinking. Before it was really him that gave them our thoughts.

Toyota has the sales they wanted now to justify spending money on a manual. We forced the ball towards their side of the court. They can't say that nobody bought their cars because it's one of the most popular selling sports cars even though it's such a niche vehicle.
 

Dannyvandelft

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I'm with you on that fam. That's why I'm advocating so hard for the manual. That's why I'm also a little bit annoyed that A70TTR or itichaka just fell off the face of the Earth as there isn't anyone to tell Toyota directly what we were thinking. Before it was really him that gave them our thoughts.

Toyota has the sales they wanted now to justify spending money on a manual. We forced the ball towards their side of the court. They can't say that nobody bought their cars because it's one of the most popular selling sports cars even though it's such a niche vehicle.
And that's exactly why it won't be coming, because it doesn't need to. They sell. You don't see Nissan putting a manual in the GT-R, or Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini putting them in ANY vehicle they make. They don't need to. They sell anyway. There's absolutely no need to spend however much money on adding a manual when the vast majority buy the DCT/auto version anyway. And the few sales they do lose, are less of a loss than adding a manual would be.

This might come as a shocker, but when the ICE goes, so will the manual. So pray to the car gods that Porsche is successful with synthetic fuels.
 

2JZ-No-Sh*t

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I feel a lot of us keep repeating ourselves, but here it goes again. Nissan will offer the Z35 in a manual because half of Z's will opt for one. Toyota stated in their poll that only 20% of potential buyers said they wanted a manaul. I wondered who they polled, woman and millennials? ? All jokes aside the only sales stats I have are from the U.S. market A80 which shows 6,128 MT vs 5,111 AT. Do I believe Toyota/BMW will ever offer the J29 with a manual? Probably not, but instead of whining and complaining about it we can will just go buy something else if a stick is a must.
 

Dannyvandelft

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I feel a lot of us keep repeating ourselves, but here it goes again. Nissan will offer the Z35 in a manual because half of Z's will opt for one. Toyota stated in their poll that only 20% of potential buyers said they wanted a manaul. I wondered who they polled, woman and millennials? ? All jokes aside the only sales stats I have are from the U.S. market A80 which shows 6,128 MT vs 5,111 AT. Do I believe Toyota/BMW will ever offer the J29 with a manual? Probably not, but instead of whining and complaining about it we can will just go buy something else if a stick is a must.
Couple key points though: the auto in the A80 was the ancient slow-as-f@#k transmission. Not a current day performance auto. If the mk5 got the same type of auto the mk4 did, we ALL would pick a manual. So that comparison doesn't fly.
Here's some numbers to put it in perspective, the Ferrari 360 had one of the earliest DCT available, the F1 transmission. Ferrari sold roughly 25% with manuals. The next model, the F430, only sold 10% with manuals, and the model after that, the 458 Italia, didn't have a manual at all. That's what manufacturers look at. 10% of buyers choosing a manual is not worth the effort.
Second, I'm willing to bet you're younger than 40, because someone 40 or over wouldn't use a line from F&F as a name (I hope), so you are very probably a millennial yourself ;)
 
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gymratter

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If that's the new GT-R in red, I like!
imo its still ugly as sin ??

I feel a lot of us keep repeating ourselves, but here it goes again. Nissan will offer the Z35 in a manual because half of Z's will opt for one. Toyota stated in their poll that only 20% of potential buyers said they wanted a manaul. I wondered who they polled, woman and millennials? ? All jokes aside the only sales stats I have are from the U.S. market A80 which shows 6,128 MT vs 5,111 AT. Do I believe Toyota/BMW will ever offer the J29 with a manual? Probably not, but instead of whining and complaining about it we can will just go buy something else if a stick is a must.
exactly, if rowing your gears is that important then there are still plenty of choices out there.
 

2JZ-No-Sh*t

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Couple key points though: the auto in the A80 was the ancient slow-as-f@#k transmission. Not a current day performance auto. If the mk5 got the same type of auto the mk4 did, we ALL would pick a manual. So that comparison doesn't fly.
Here's some numbers to put it in perspective, the Ferrari 360 had one of the earliest DCT available, the F1 transmission. Ferrari sold roughly 25% with manuals. The next model, the F430, only sold 10% with manuals, and the model after that, the 458 Italia, didn't have a manual at all. That's what manufacturers look at. 10% of buyers choosing a manual is not worth the effort.
Second, I'm willing to bet you're younger than 40, because someone 40 or over wouldn't use a line from F&F as a name (I hope), so you are very probably a millennial yourself ;)
Correct, but that's the only sales numbers we have from Toyota. Any guesses on a hypothetical manual J29 is just that, a guess. How about we use something closer and more intune to the Supra. Manuals make up roughly half of M2 sales. While the C7 debut half of buyers chose a manul. Granted that did shrink down to 30%-25% towards the end. Regardless, I'm not here to persuade Toyota or anyone that they should release manaul. It is what is, and as I say there are other choices out there. I am, and most people I know around my age can't drive stick. :lol:
 

Dannyvandelft

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Correct, but that's the only sales numbers we have from Toyota. Any guesses on a hypothetical manual J29 is just that, a guess. How about we use something closer and more intune to the Supra. Manuals make up roughly half of M2 sales. While the C7 debut half of buyers chose a manul. Granted that did shrink down to 30%-25% towards the end. Regardless, I'm not here to persuade Toyota or anyone that they should release manaul. It is what is, and as I say there are other choices out there. I am, and most people I know around my age can't drive stick. :lol:
Makes sense the M2 gets a manual, that's their entry level M car, kinda what the GR86 is for Toyota. BMW is just a more costly entry lol. Next few years will be great for car enthusiasts. New Z, New GR86, New STI, Supra refresh, New Lotus, another GR model, New Boxster/Cayman. Gonna be great.
 

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No argument, just talking. Conversations would be awfully short if we all thought the same.

"Should have a manual"

"Yup"

/thread.
Maybe saying argument was a little off maybe. I’m just saying that this topic is rehashed over and over again.

F1 Silver Arrows pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as the Supra v. 370z 3.0
 

vb22

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Do I believe Toyota/BMW will ever offer the J29 with a manual? Probably not, but instead of whining and complaining about it we can will just go buy something else if a stick is a must.
Same here, I think it's just way too late in the product life cycle for any major changes. There are only 3 model years left before production ends. I doubt Toyota would pour $XXX into R&D for just a 20-30 percent return rate on a niche product.
Sponsored

 
 




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