Several HPDEs in, looking into mild track upgrades

[razorlab]

I've run the RE-71RS and Continental ECF. They're both what I would consider an Endurance 200 vs a Super 200. The RE warm up quicker, wear quicker and are faster. They seem a bit more tolerant of higher pressures but do get greasy after extended lapping. The ECF wear like iron, warm up a bit slower, a bit more communicative and predictable in my experience. They prefer lower pressures so your starting cold pressure will be lower, hence the extended warm up time. They are not as fast as the RE but they will last at least 50% longer in my estimation, so this is an either/or proposition. I don't have an apples to apples lap comparison but I have driven on both 180 miles to VIR, ran all weekend and drove back home. The ECF show a comically low amount of wear.

Yea, I second that the Conti ECF wear like iron. I was 2+ seconds faster at Lime Rock with Nankang CR-S, which is a short 1.5 mile track, but I only get about 4-5 track days with them.

These is what my Conti ECF looked like after seven track days:

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[decodeddiesel]

RE: Brake fluid -- I would suggest Castrol SRF because 1) it's awesome and 2) it's ubiquitous on paddock.

I've always had really good luck with Motul, but I've certainly seen the Castrol discussed a lot here. I have Motul in my car now, I'll likely flush again when I swap in the Project-µ pads. Is there something I should know about Motul, or is it more of a preference? Just curious. I'll probably swap it over soon regardless.

I've run the RE-71RS and Continental ECF. They're both what I would consider an Endurance 200 vs a Super 200. The RE warm up quicker, wear quicker and are faster. They seem a bit more tolerant of higher pressures but do get greasy after extended lapping. The ECF wear like iron, warm up a bit slower, a bit more communicative and predictable in my experience. They prefer lower pressures so your starting cold pressure will be lower, hence the extended warm up time. They are not as fast as the RE but they will last at least 50% longer in my estimation, so this is an either/or proposition. I don't have an apples to apples lap comparison but I have driven on both 180 miles to VIR, ran all weekend and drove back home. The ECF show a comically low amount of wear.

Really good observations even without your "apples-to-apples" data , thank you. I like Continental tires a lot and this is what I was hoping to hear.

 

[razorlab]

@decodeddiesel

I would look at the Kumho V730's as well. They are faster than the Conti ECF, wear better and tolerate heat better than the Super 200's but are VERY close to the Super 200's in pace. Also, they are a F'in bargain. $195/each for 275/35/18

 

[decodeddiesel]

Yea, I second that the Conti ECF wear like iron. I was 2+ seconds faster at Lime Rock with Nankang CR-S, which is a short 1.5 mile track, but I only get about 4-5 track days with them.

These is what my Conti ECF looked like after seven track days:

Dang! I'm really hoping to get 5-10 track days in this summer. It looks like these would have enough life to where I could get away with one set.

I'm still not too concerned with my times just yet. I am monitoring them, however I'm still just learning the car and the tracks around me.

ETA: Looking into the Kumho V730s now.

 

[nibble]

My advice has always been "Invest on yourself more than car." when it comes to track driving. So doing minimal changes to make the car reliable and worry-free should be the goal, in my opinion. Also, you may learn more by adding less variables.

having said that, below are what i changed for track past years.

- brake pad, rotor, steel braid line, & fluid - performance index on these combined are either matches stock or very slightly better.
- wheels : square on 18.
- suspension - anti rollbar on front & rear.
- engine - none. only frequent oil change.
- aero - have wing in the back but don't know if it does anything. purely for look. diffuser in the back... again, not sure if it does anything but more of headache as screws were falling off or ripped from bottom mount. I may run it few more times to see but most likely I will be taking it off as this has been againt my philosophy.

so as you can see, very minimal change for me. hope it helps you as reference to build your car.

 

[decodeddiesel]

My advice has always been "Invest on yourself more than car." when it comes to track driving. So doing minimal changes to make the car reliable and worry-free should be the goal, in my opinion. Also, you may learn more by adding less variables.

having said that, below are what i changed for track past years.

- brake pad, rotor, steel braid line, & fluid - performance index on these combined are either matches stock or very slightly better.
- wheels : square on 18.
- suspension - anti rollbar on front & rear.
- engine - none. only frequent oil change.
- aero - have wing in the back but don't know if it does anything. purely for look. diffuser in the back... again, not sure if it does anything but more of headache as screws were falling off or ripped from bottom mount. I may run it few more times to see but most likely I will be taking it off as this has been againt my philosophy.

so as you can see, very minimal change for me. hope it helps you as reference to build your car.

That's good advice. Honestly I'm really more interested in spending my money on seat time with an instructor, but I've pretty much reached the limit of the car on stock tires. During my last HPDE I really cooked the brakes and tires.

I'm currently purchasing items to run upgraded pads/fluid/lines/MC brace so I can run brake pads that are better matched to track driving with 18x10 square wheels with 200tw tires. I'll probably run a couple of HPDEs with this setup before I move to MCS coilovers. This is where the car will stay more or less for a long time I imagine. I will likely end up adding aero and 100tw tires before I add power.

I've gotten some great suggestions and knowledge from this thread. I really appreciate all of it. I'm looking at a 10-pack of HPDEs now, but oooof, it's a lot for the group I like driving with lmao.

 

[nibble]

That's good advice. Honestly I'm really more interested in spending my money on seat time with an instructor, but I've pretty much reached the limit of the car on stock tires. During my last HPDE I really cooked the brakes and tires.

I'm currently purchasing items to run upgraded pads/fluid/lines/MC brace so I can run brake pads that are better matched to track driving with 18x10 square wheels with 200tw tires. I'll probably run a couple of HPDEs with this setup before I move to MCS coilovers. This is where the car will stay more or less for a long time I imagine. I will likely end up adding aero and 100tw tires before I add power.

I've gotten some great suggestions and knowledge from this thread. I really appreciate all of it. I'm looking at a 10-pack of HPDEs now, but oooof, it's a lot for the group I like driving with lmao.

I usually attend all NASA NE events so hope to cross our path in near future.

 

[razorlab]

As far as brake fluid, I just put a brake fluid chart in this thread: https://www.supramkv.com/threads/a90-supra-brake-pads-brake-fluid.16899/

I currently use Endless and it's been great. I used SRF prior and it worked but I feel the pedal feel is better with Endless.

Torque RT-700 is by far the best fluid I have ever used. They went out of business for a bit but are now back so I will probably move back to that.

I never liked Motul. On my previous platforms (Evos) I would have to maintenance bleed after every event and my pedal would still get soft.

I heard good things about the Project Mu G-Four as well.

 

[decodeddiesel]

As far as brake fluid, I just put a brake fluid chart in this thread: https://www.supramkv.com/threads/a90-supra-brake-pads-brake-fluid.16899/

I currently use Endless and it's been great. I used SRF prior and it worked but I feel the pedal feel is better with Endless.

Torque RT-700 is by far the best fluid I have ever used. They went out of business for a bit but are now back so I will probably move back to that.

I never liked Motul. On my previous platforms (Evos) I would have to maintenance bleed after every event and my pedal would still get soft.

I heard good things about the Project Mu G-Four as well.

That thread is a very impressive collection of knowledge that I plan to fully exploit lol.

 

[decodeddiesel]

Ok so a little update. I really want to thank everyone who contributed and offered to share knowledge, especially @razorlab. I have been reading a lot of your posts and threads and it's been immensely helpful. A lot of questions I had have been answered.

So here's a rundown of what I've decided to go with:

Driver Upgrades (Purchased):

• 3-pack of SCDA Car Control Clinic at Lime Rock park. This includes a wet skidpad and a ~1 mile permanent AutoX course. First day scheduled for March 25th.
• 3-pack of SCDA track days with in-car instruction. Planning on doing 1 at Palmer, Lime Rock (full course), and Thompson.
• Still need to buy track insurance, but my CC needs a little break!

Brake Upgrades (Ordered):

• Project-µ Club Racer F+R Pads
• Castrol SRF (I'll try the Endless fluid next)
• Goodrich SS lines
• Verus MC Brace

200 tw tires and supporting mods (Ordered)

• Kumho Ecsta V730 275/35R18 (square)
• Titan 7 T-R10 18"x10.7"
• 15mm spacers front and rear (temporary until I upgrade to MCS 2-ways)
• Cusco Sway Bars
• Jackie Ding's Level 2 Handling Kit
  
  • SPL Front Lower Control Arms
  • SPL Adjustable Front Caster Rod Monoball Bushings
  • SPL Rear Toe Links + Eccentric Lockouts
  • SPL F&R Adjustable Swaybar links
  • PhD Racing Lab Setup Guide and Support
• Wheel Stud Conversion with 90mm studs
• TPMS for all 4 wheels

That's probably going to be it until I burn through the tires and track days. Next year I'll buy the coilovers and likely change tires to the Nankang CR-S in 275/40R18.

The only DIY install that doesn't look doable is the rear swaybar install. I don't have access to a lift and dropping the subframe without one seems like a royal PITA. I've done crazier stuff when I was younger and had able bodied friends willing to help, but being in my mid-40s with some health issues and doing this by myself it's a bit much.

After calling several shops in my area about the RSB install (and being outright rejected, even indy BMW shops) I found a "motorsports" shop near my work that can handle the install, alignment, and corner balancing when I upgrade to coilovers.

 

[Nugs]

You're talking my language when comparing to the P-cars. The whole reason I got the Supra was it was a competitor to the Cayman and used the Cayman as it's performance benchmark. That's really good to hear that when I don't suck as much I'll be a threat to some of those cars lmfao.

On my local track I'm faster than every P car I've come across except cup cars. I've seen one well driven 991 GT3 RS do similar times.

 

[decodeddiesel]

Whelp, I guess the Kuhmo 730s are popular because my tire rack order was delayed another month. I can't wait that long, so I'm looking into alternatives. Leaning towards the Conti ECF or possibly the Nankangs.

 

[razorlab]

Whelp, I guess the Kuhmo 730s are popular because my tire rack order was delayed another month. I can't wait that long, so I'm looking into alternatives. Leaning towards the Conti ECF or possibly the Nankangs.

What are you looking for in a tire? Straight lap times or?

 

[razorlab]

Looks like the 275/35/18 V730's are back in stock at Simpletire: https://simpletire.com/brands/kumho...=Del3&curationSource=none&productPos=1&rad=EE

 

[decodeddiesel]

Looks like the 275/35/18 V730's are back in stock at Simpletire: https://simpletire.com/brands/kumho...=Del3&curationSource=none&productPos=1&rad=EE

Bryan, part of the reason why I ordered through Tire Rack is for their heat cycling service.

How necessary is heat cycling on these tires?

I'd probably lean more towards the Contis because I'm willing to give up lap times for a little more durability. I want to eventually go to the Nankangs once I have my suspension more dialed in and I'm more comfortable with the car on track.

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