Several HPDEs in, looking into mild track upgrades

[Rocksandblues]

Well it just started snowing and I'm about 10 laps into my car control clinic lolololol

Hope you are not posting and driving on lap 11. ?!

Sponsored

 

[decodeddiesel]

Hope you are not posting and driving on lap 11. ?!

It's the infield course at Lime Rock so only a few cars at a time are on the track.

The skidpad is.... interesting lmao

 

[decodeddiesel]

It was a complete mud bath by the end of the day thanks to a few Mustangs that showed up for the afternoon, but all in all that was by far the most fun auto-X I've ever done...even though it really wasn't an auto-X at all.

The skidpad stomped my ass. Initiating, correcting, and sustaining a drift was a challenge. I got it a few times, but spun the hell out of the car far more times lol. Even the instructors I let drive my car had trouble.

All in all, it was a great day. I had a ton of fun, and I'm excited for this season.

 

[Bubbajo]

I’ve done a lot of track days but only 3 in my Z4 M40i.
How are the DWS holding up? I’m actually thinking about going that direction. Used them on a mustang and they held up very well.

a square setup is good for tire rotation

camber is good for allowing lower tire pressure in the front and maintaining even wear.

the seats, of all the things you list, will improve your enjoyment the most. Much less fatigue. More control. Better concentration.

everything else is really really down the rabbit hole if you aren’t racing for points.

so if it were me, I’d go.

camber plates.

then seats.

then wheels

dirty secret. You can run 275 on the front wheels. You can’t run the rear wheels on the front without rubbing. With lifetime mounting and balance at discount tire you can rotate your square tires without rotating the wheels front to back.Choose unidirectional tire designs for even wear on both edges with rotation.

 

[decodeddiesel]

I’ve done a lot of track days but only 3 in my Z4 M40i.
How are the DWS holding up? I’m actually thinking about going that direction. Used them on a mustang and they held up very well.

a square setup is good for tire rotation

camber is good for allowing lower tire pressure in the front and maintaining even wear.

the seats, of all the things you list, will improve your enjoyment the most. Much less fatigue. More control. Better concentration.

everything else is really really down the rabbit hole if you aren’t racing for points.

so if it were me, I’d go.

camber plates.

then seats.

then wheels

dirty secret. You can run 275 on the front wheels. You can’t run the rear wheels on the front without rubbing. With lifetime mounting and balance at discount tire you can rotate your square tires without rotating the wheels front to back.Choose unidirectional tire designs for even wear on both edges with rotation.

Thanks for the advice! The Z4 is so sweet, it's cool to see a Z4 owner here. My wife is constantly trying to convince me to buy her a used 4-cylinder Z4.

As far as the Conti DWS tires, I think for a daily driver tire that sees 3 or 4 seasons but isn't driven in heavy snow the DWSs are perfect. Great dry and wet traction and they can handle very cold temps, light snow (up to 3" or so), and ice very well. I've had mine for close to 30,000 miles and through two New England winters. I'm on my 2nd set of rears and the first set of fronts. They're just about done, but they still have some life in them and tons of grip. They are definitely not a track tire, nor are they really comparable to a summer tire in performance.

Really the only reason I used the DWSs yesterday for a HPDE is because the temperature was in the low to mid 30s all day and it wasn't a true track day, it was a "car control clinic". I have a set of OEM PSSs with some life left in them I could have swapped on, but I'm really glad I didn't. My tire temps barely broke 90F after a 4 sessions of 5 hard lap sets with about 10 minutes between each set. The course went from dry and cold to wet and cold because it was snowing, sleeting, hailing, and raining throughout the day. The day went from ? in the morning to ? in the afternoon.

I've already pulled the trigger on several items and I am slowly installing them into my car as the weather warms up. I'm still waiting on my tires and wheels at the moment, but I have everything else.

I have the ability to rotate my tires and install all of the parts I purchased on my own. I am trying to find a good string alignment system so I can do my own alignments in my garage. I kinda live in the woods in a weird way so I have to do a lot more myself.

Below is an update from a few pages back in this thread. Basically I am following Jackie Ding's recommended suspension phases using my prefered parts. This will allow me to move to a 200tw square setup (275/35R18) and have the camber adjustability, toe stability, and brake improvements that will keep the suspension system balanced. I want to prepare my car for coilovers, 100TW tires, and aero down the road. Next year I will be adding camber plates, but they'll be on top of MCS coilovers.

So here's a rundown of what I've decided to go with:

Driver Upgrades (Purchased):

• 3-pack of SCDA Car Control Clinic at Lime Rock park. This includes a wet skidpad and a ~1 mile permanent AutoX course. First day scheduled for March 25th.
• 3-pack of SCDA track days with in-car instruction. Planning on doing 1 at Palmer, Lime Rock (full course), and Thompson.
• Still need to buy track insurance, but my CC needs a little break!

Brake Upgrades (Ordered):

• Project-µ Club Racer F+R Pads
• Castrol SRF (I'll try the Endless fluid next)
• Goodrich SS lines
• Verus MC Brace

200 tw tires and supporting mods (Ordered)

• Kumho Ecsta V730 275/35R18 (square)
• Titan 7 T-R10 18"x10.7"
• 15mm spacers front and rear (temporary until I upgrade to MCS 2-ways)
• Cusco Sway Bars
• Jackie Ding's Level 2 Handling Kit
  • SPL Front Lower Control Arms
  • SPL Adjustable Front Caster Rod Monoball Bushings
  • SPL Rear Toe Links + Eccentric Lockouts
  • SPL F&R Adjustable Swaybar links
  • PhD Racing Lab Setup Guide and Support
• Wheel Stud Conversion with 90mm studs
• TPMS for all 4 wheels

I completely agree with you on seats. I took a beating yesterday, especially on the skidpad. To the point where on my drive home I was seriously starting to consider getting a good drivers seat and just retaining the lap belt and stock passenger seat for the time being. I want to go to a 6-point harness, but I think a roll bar is really the only real option there because I doubt the integrity of the Cusco or similar harness bar in a serious collision. Suffice to say seats are very high my list as well as some safety items. I am putting a fire extinguisher into the car, and I will be installing seats, a 6-point harness with HANS, and some sort of roll bar hopefully over the winter when i do the coilovers.

Honestly though, I am trying to spend way more time and money on seat time than I am mods. I am planning on at least 10 HPDEs this year if not more. There are 3 tracks in my area and I would like to drive all 3 this season with an instructor if I can. I really like SCDA and I'm planning on doing a lot of days with them.

 

[Bubbajo]

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=270&tab=ResultCharts

Less difference than I might guess between summer and all season.

but measurable.

as a class they did better on a different day. Don’t know what that says about reproducibility of these tests.
https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=280&tab=ResultCharts


I’m planning to snag a set of Supra wheels for track tires.

definitely get a Z4 if your wife wants a convertible.

 

[decodeddiesel]

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=270&tab=ResultCharts

Less difference than I might guess between summer and all season.

but measurable.

as a class they did better on a different day. Don’t know what that says about reproducibility of these tests.
https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=280&tab=ResultCharts


I’m planning to snag a set of Supra wheels for track tires.

definitely get a Z4 if your wife wants a convertible.

I mean, in the conditions we were in on Saturday I probably had one of the fastest cars there, but these tires wouldn't deal with real heat very well because of the compound.

She's really torn between the Z4, a 981 Boxster, and the Fiata Abarth.

 

[razorlab]

I mean, in the conditions we were in on Saturday I probably had one of the fastest cars there, but these tires wouldn't deal with real heat very well because of the compound.

She's really torn between the Z4, a 981 Boxster, and the Fiata Abarth.

Yea, the DWS will get annihilated on the full track and 50F+ temps.

 

[Bubbajo]

DWS will get annihilated on the full track and 50F+ temps.

That wasn’t my experience. *shrug*

 

[razorlab]

That wasn’t my experience. *shrug*

Drive faster? ?

 

[FLtrackdays]

Nitto NT01 or Nankang CR-S would be my other tire choice if/when I can’t get my Maxxis Victra RC-1s. They’re mega popular and other BMW owners love em! Glad to hear you’re practicing a bit in the slush. It’s great when it’s a bit slippery early in the day, driving off line, feeling your limits and then as the day drys up = fantastic lap times. At least in my previous track cars.

Sounds like you’re right on track. Seat time being the most important factor. And @Bubbajo list spot on. Seats make a HUGE difference in confidence and feel. Hawk DTC 60/30s are worth a try as well. Can’t beat them for the price, imo. And ditto on the heat cycling. I get mine driving in town a bit, in route to the track, or going easy the 1st session.

 

[decodeddiesel]

Nitto NT01 would be my other tire choice if/when I can’t get my Maxxis Victra RC-1s. They’re mega popular and other BMW owners love em! Glad to hear you’re practicing a bit in the slush. It’s great when it’s a bit slippery early in the day, driving off line, feeling your limits and then as the day drys up = fantastic lap times. At least in my previous track cars.

Sounds like you’re right on track. Seat time being the most important factor. And @Bubbajo list spot on. Seats make a HUGE difference in confidence and feel. Hawk DTC 60/30s are worth a try as well. Can’t beat them for the price, imo. And ditto on the heat cycling. I get mine driving in town a bit, in route to the track, or going easy the 1st session.

NT01s are very popular in the P-car world as well.

 

[B58_ hwAyaq]

The skidpad stomped my ass. Initiating, correcting, and sustaining a drift was a challenge. I got it a few times, but spun the hell out of the car far more times lol. Even the instructors I let drive my car had trouble.

The Supra’s wheelbase is really, really short (shorter than 86s, 370Zs, caymans). Combined with a healthy amount of power (and grip), and it’s definitely a learning curve to play at the limits of traction.

 

[Rocksandblues]

The Supra’s wheelbase is really, really short (shorter than 86s, 370Zs, caymans). Combined with a healthy amount of power (and grip), and it’s definitely a learning curve to play at the limits of traction.

Have friends with a race team in the Pirelli GT4 America series. He drives a m4 gt4 but likes the Supra and was tempted. *partially because of me We have same little home track where he tests and drives his other track toys and he has driven my Supra several times including when i first got it in 2020
anyhoo- He says the Supra is a faster chassis than the m4 but is more of a handful. An intermediate race car driver can go faster in a M4 but a really good driver can go faster in the Supra. fwiw

 

[razorlab]

The Supra’s wheelbase is really, really short (shorter than 86s, 370Zs, caymans). Combined with a healthy amount of power (and grip), and it’s definitely a learning curve to play at the limits of traction.

The Supra wheel base is almost exactly the same as the Cayman, which makes sense since the Cayman was studied as the competition to the Supra. 97.2 vs 97.4.

Nitto NT01 would be my other tire choice if/when I can’t get my Maxxis Victra RC-1s. They’re mega popular and other BMW owners love em!

I used NT01's for about a decade. They where a great tire, fast to the cords. However, almost every single 200TW are faster than NT01's now. NT01 will last longer but you will be 2+ seconds off pace of pretty much any modern tire.

They are also loud as all hell. Car sounds like a tie-fighter with them. Here they are on my last track car:

Sponsored