Toyota "Preparing" Hotter Supra GRMN, Says Chief Engineer

[McWicked]

OK, here's how I reached the $120K figure:

The base Toyota 86 went for $25K. The GRMN 86 sold for $54K and they only made 100 of them. For the $30K premium you received new wheels and tires, upgraded calipers and rotors, tuned suspension, intake, exhaust, ECU tuning, carbon fiber hood, new transmission, sport seats and a wing.

So if we tease out the logic we can infer that similar upgrades to the $50-$60K MKV would cost a similar amount. So about $80-90K all in. Which is doable, and it's maybe what we'll get. So where did I pull the extra $30K from? Simple, the $90K version doesn't include any serious engine modifications. Much less the fabled CGI blocked Yamaha-tuned wonder engine. Nor does it include any serious bodywork (custom front/rear fascia, diffuses/splitters, active wing, functional duct work... etc).

However, if Toyota is willing to subsidize the cost as a marketing/PR exercise.. then all bets are off. We'll see.

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[PerformanceSound]

Totally agree with you on the pricing. But if these cars are in fact amazing I can’t see used ones being any cheaper, it’ll deff be a sellers market.

Yeah, especially the limited production....

I feel like dealers will hoard them all for marketing reasons.

 

[PerformanceSound]

OK, here's how I reached the $120K figure:

The base Toyota 86 went for $25K. The GRMN 86 sold for $54K and they only made 100 of them. For the $30K premium you received new wheels and tires, upgraded calipers and rotors, tuned suspension, intake, exhaust, ECU tuning, carbon fiber hood, new transmission, sport seats and a wing.

So if we tease out the logic we can infer that similar upgrades to the $50-$60K MKV would cost a similar amount. So about $80-90K all in. Which is doable, and it's maybe what we'll get. So where did I pull the extra $30K from? Simple, the $90K version doesn't include any serious engine modifications. Much less the fabled CGI blocked Yamaha-tuned wonder engine. Nor does it include any serious bodywork (custom front/rear fascia, diffuses/splitters, active wing, functional duct work... etc).

However, if Toyota is willing to subsidize the cost as a marketing/PR exercise.. then all bets are off. We'll see.

Not disagreeing with your logic....I just think that would put the “desirable” MKV’s out of alot of potential buyers’ hands. Make the top tier cars attainable by the M3/M4 and RCF crowd, and it will be a home run.

 

[BrettS]

@A70TTR for the guys on the fence for buying the debut car or waiting for the top trim car, will any substantial info be released before the debut cars are hitting dealers?

 

[mkivalex]

Or even within the first little while. Ive been holding out for so long. If its a year. Sure ill wait. It its 3 years I will have to get something to hold me over in the meantime.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Or even within the first little while. Ive been holding out for so long. If its a year. Sure ill wait. It its 3 years I will have to get something to hold me over in the meantime.

I hear ya. If what I heard is true....it is definitely worth waiting for!

 

[Nurburgring]

My reasoning for the proposed base and GRMN models goes like this:
Porsche has been the benchmark throughout the MkV Supra development. From the first meeting, when Tada said to the BMW guys he wanted to build a Porsche killer, and they didn`t quite enjoy the mention of the P word, he had that target. They have been testing side by side with P cars. They have even stated Supra mules beating a 991. They will go after specific Stuttgart models, one very attainable, the other more on the Halo car side.

Supra base model = 718 Cayman S performance target, for non-S money (USD 60k). Besides the cheaper price it will have a better sounding engine and higher ultimate performance potential.

Supra GRMN = 911 GT3 performance target, for Carrera S money (USD 105k).

Why the GT3? Because that is the attainable track weapon on the Porsche stable, and Tada has been very track-focused on his approach to this project: a lot of development on Nordschleife, the mule debut at Goodwood festival of speed, their participation on the german VLN endurance Nurbugring race with Tada himself driving a Supra, the weird Fuji video, the dry sump oiling system suggested by A70, all while Toyota winning LeMans, I think it all points to a very serious track car in the making. I`m not so sure on the whole 2000whp, MkIV-beating performancesound wet dreams, I think that will clearly not be the main focus of the GRMN model.

 

[PerformanceSound]

I`m not so sure on the whole 2000whp, MkIV-beating performancesound wet dreams, I think that will clearly not be the main focus of the GRMN model.

Why are you like this? You make fun of me of stirring the pot!?!?! When did I ever say the MKV will have huge horsepower out of the box??? When? Show me that post please. The car I am waiting for, that everyone is waiting for, is not going to be a GTR out of the box....it’s the gear it will be packing that will make the top tier cars so special....just like the MKIV 6spd TT’s. The MKIV had 320hp out of the box, yet is that why everyone is paying stupid money for one? It’s the gear, it always has been and always will be with a Supra! If you wish to believe it won’t be anything special compared to a MKIV (both stock and modified), great....but I promise you 1000whp+ capable MKV’s will be around way sooner than anyone thinks.

 

[Nurburgring]

I was just messing with you. Agreed, not a big HP car out of the box, but my take is they`ll go big on handling - enough to challenge 911`s, Corvettes, GTR`s. As for 1000whp potential, sure, anything is possible with enough funds - at least the closed deck block and forged crankshaft should be able to handle that.

 

[A70TTR]

@A70TTR for the guys on the fence for buying the debut car or waiting for the top trim car, will any substantial info be released before the debut cars are hitting dealers?

Probably not, mostly because there is still a lot of work to be done and because they don't want to cannibalize sales.

 

[PerformanceSound]

I was just messing with you. Agreed, not a big HP car out of the box, but my take is they`ll go big on handling - enough to challenge 911`s, Corvettes, GTR`s. As for 1000whp potential, sure, anything is possible with enough funds - at least the closed deck block and forged crankshaft should be able to handle that.

You hurt my feelings .

There is more info for me to share, I just can’t out of respect to my source. I am confident 1000whp+ out of the “alpha” cars will be easier and sooner than most think. I will leave it at that....unless @A70TTR cares to add more .

...and all this time the Supra community was thrilled about 2JZ VVTi spooling turbo’s quickly....pffft...

 

[KahnBB6]

There is more info for me to share, I just can’t out of respect to my source. I am confident 1000whp+ out of the “alpha” cars will be easier and sooner than most think. I will leave it at that....unless @A70TTR cares to add more .

...and all this time the Supra community was thrilled about 2JZ VVTi spooling turbo’s quickly....pffft...

^^ Hey, the old stuff is still great even by today's standards Those GTE VVT-i heads with modern twin scroll turbos or quick spool valves and a good modern aftermarket ECU and tune are mighty impressive.

But I am eager to see what Toyota and Yamaha did with the B58 engine in standard and Alpha trim.

Now what would be really cool and surprising to learn Jan 14th is two things:

--CGI block on all the regular I6 MKV engines
--traditional individualized exhaust ports (rather than integrated) on all the regular I6 MKV cylinder heads

^^ This is me purely being wishful... but if they did just these two things... that would be a LOT of potential out of the box in just the non-GRMN Alpha cars.

I fully expect those tweaks on the Alpha cars... and MUCH more... but if those two things were made staples of the regular models then the tuning world will already have a lot to work with.

Then again, at least concerning the blocks, maybe the CGI version is just one of the reasons they'd use to separate the Alphas from the rest. The cylinder heads though... I hope just a difference in integrated vs non-integrated exhaust manifold isn't nearly the only trick Yamaha has had up its sleeve for the Alphas.

Oh yeah, and not to forget for the 14th: a 6-speed manual trans for model year two

 

[McWicked]

Now what would be really cool and surprising to learn Jan 14th is two things:

--CGI block on all the regular I6 MKV engines
--traditional individualized exhaust ports (rather than integrated) on all the regular I6 MKV cylinder heads

^^ This is me purely being wishful... but if they did just these two things... that would be a LOT of potential out of the box in just the non-GRMN Alpha cars.

Agreed on both accounts. It would mean a sharp increase in potential and it is wishful thinking.
In any case, I think Toyota management is going to need to see strong sales of the plain Jane MKV in the first 2 years or the GRMN version is toast.

 

[93Siro]

You guys sure love to throw iron block and Yamaha into your wet dreams, don't you? lol Not trying to be an asshole, but i don't find those assumption to be true; a new block and head for just the top tier sports car for a niche model? And i sure as hell don't think any Supra will be close to GT3 performance, period. 991.2 Carrera? Yeah but not any GTx cars. Nor it will have a super easy tuneable DME which some of you just spread around though the DME is infact tuneable. Enjoy Supra for whatever it is people.

 

[justbake]

LMAO! Are you serious? The only 1000whp MKV's you are gonna see are those with a 2JZ swap. The BMW B58 has been around for a while now and the most you can make from it with bolt ons, tune and even an aftermarket turbo will be what...700hp? I don't know which part of your @SS did you pull 1000whp from a B58 from.

I dont know many people who go for more than bolt ons in a commuter sedan with the factory warranty still intact. Not to mention, real tunes have just recently been possible.
It took many many years for the 2jz to reach 1000hp.

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