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Toyota Teases GR Line Up: Supra MK6, Celica MK8, MR2 MK4, 86 MK3 and GR GT
gymratter
Well-Known Member
a new 86 could come sooner than later if Toyota just repurpose the Copen concept. imo with a new Celica coming a smaller and cheaper new 86 would make sense.
KahnBB6
Well-Known Member
Toyota, Daihatsu and Suzuki are all co-developing a new small (but NOT Kei size) FR two seater platform for the S-FR, new Copen and new Cappuccino respectively. The engine is supposed to be a downsized/de-stroked version of the G16E-GTS and with significantly less horsepower (about 150hp) in longitudinal configuration. The same engine variant is supposed to also be getting development for use in transverse FWD layout for a new GR Starlet 3-door hatch so that Toyota can compete with it in rally.
The GR86 next gen platform is supposed to have started from the current Lexus IS sedan as a basis. Here's hoping that somehow it will get paired down to stay lightweight and keep the two door bodystyle. Development was talked about as having started back in 2022 so it's very likely it will come out officially well before 2030.
The Celica is the most confusing so far. The actual car being hinted as a "Celica" is a new MR2 successor to the SW20 Turbo of the 90's. Yet it's being called a Celica when it's obviously an "MR2".
Previous rumors suggested the Celica and MR2 were being developed together with a shared platform somehow and shared top of the line drivetrains (GR-Four AWD, G20E turbo, M/T and A/T for the turbo engine) but now it's hard to tell exactly what they're doing with the Celica name or if it'll be a separate model on its own.
My own guess is that it's *possible* the GR86 will change into something more of a 90's Altezza RS200 (1st gen IS300) successor (which had a 3S-GE BEAMS dual VVT-i 210hp 6-speed M/T w/LSD driveline). That car was itself a spiritual successor in small sport sedan form to the original AE86 Trueno and designed by the engineer who oversaw the AE86 in the 80's. And if those Toyota GR short anime are anything to go off of they did prominently show an Altezza RS200 in an early episode (the one where an MR2-ish car was under a cover in the same garage) so maybe that was a hint?
Or... maybe they keep it as their inexpensive 2+2 RWD coupe? I hope they do. That was among one of the main reasons I bought one a couple of years ago since I wanted a two-door 2+2 RWD with a manual. Two seats only wasn't going to work for me. The extra space goes a long way.
Whether it's the 3rd gen GR86 or a new Celica Toyota needs an affordable 2+2 two door coupe that drives the rear wheels in their lineup.
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johnny_10196
Well-Known Member
Bestcar has been wrong at least half of the time. I still think the AWD 86 concept is the test bed for the next Celica.
C-Pike
Well-Known Member
Same I think their latest reporting is full of it. Cooper Ericksen said the Celica is in deep development with prototypes and mules but Bestcar wants us to believe that Toyota is scrapping their original plans and combining both projects into a single model...
FLtrackdays
Well-Known Member
Any updates of Toyota working with Mazda?
https://japanesenostalgiccar.com/mazda-toyota-inline-six-sports-car
https://japanesenostalgiccar.com/mazda-toyota-inline-six-sports-car
Captain_Kirk
Well-Known Member
No idea if they are working with Toyota, but Mazda is forging ahead with a RX successor and new Miata.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/next-generation-mazda-rx-7-mx-5-miata-rotary-development
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gymratter
Well-Known Member
i have a hard time believing Toyota will use the 22 yr old N platform to build anything new. i think once production of the 3rd gen IS wraps up then all of their core models would have officially moved over to TNGA.
KahnBB6
Well-Known Member
TNGA-L is the only in that series architecture set up for RWD and it's entirely too big and heavy to begin with for a the GR86. There is no way they'd start from that for such a small car.
So either they have developed some new and more compact TNGA RWD capable architecture (or another architecture entirely) or they are using some further reworked version of Toyota New N which debuted in 2012 making it only a 13 year old platform to start with.
However they're going about it I imagine that given the cost to design something new or redesign and highly modify something older the bones of whatever they've come up with may be used in more than *just* a new small-ish RWD GR86.
IF that were to be the case I personally have no idea what that would entail (other than what is on my personal wishlist) but IF a substantially new or highly revised new-ish somewhat small(er) RWD capable platform were developed to realize a 3rd gen GR86 it just wouldn't make sense for Toyota/Lexus to not use it in more than one compact RWD model. They always amortize their parts/platform/powertrain development.
...
Further, the least costly way to do something (but not exactly the same thing) in the segment and not have to spend tremendous money on a new smaller RWD platform in the TNGA family would be to succeed the GR86 2nd gen with some reworked version of the Lexus IS Toyota New N architecture to extend it for another full model cycle and make the car a "GR86" but really more a successor to the 1998-2005 Altezza RS200 sedan... since the starting point is already a RWD sport sedan platform.
This would be disappointing for anyone who loves 2+2 two door coupes (I'd be one of them) but I have no doubt it would be an awesome driver's car just like the Altezza (which itself was a "mature" successor to the '83-'87 AE86 Corolla).
I do hope the GR86 continues on as a two-door 2+2 RWD coupe but I'd also love to see GR pay off that cryptic "would you like to see some kind of sport sedan?" comment from one of their people a few years ago. Why not both kinds of models in some way?
Even further if they actually did any substantial new RWD platform development... I'd also love to see GR do a true successor to the midsize-ish JZX90/100/110 Chaser Tourer V / Mark II IR-V in RWD with a turbo engine and manual transmission option. I don't think they will but it's nice to dream.
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