Toyota Teases GR Line Up: Supra MK6, Celica MK8, MR2 MK4, 86 MK3 and GR GT

[PerformanceSound]

“G16 & G20 based”….interesting:

Motor1

3-4-6-8

Sponsored

 

[Rob_SER]

"looks to my nerd eye".

Looks like a very credible source of information

 

[PerformanceSound]

"looks to my nerd eye".

Looks like a very credible source of information

I’m sticking with what I said months ago.

The G16 architecture is most likely modular. Expanding it by one cylinder would theoretically yield a G20, and pairing two G20s could form the basis of a GR GT V8. From there, Toyota realistically has two paths:

1. two G16s in a V configuration to create a new twin-turbo V6, or
2. two G16s arranged inline to create a new twin-turbo inline-6.

That likely explains the current gap in Toyota’s 6 cylinder lineup. There are probably serious internal discussions about whether the next Supra should use a V6 or an inline 6, especially when hybrid packaging is considered.

At the same time, Toyota is dealing with well-documented issues surrounding the V35A-FTS V6. That makes it reasonable to assume a revised twin-turbo V6 architecture could be under development…potentially derived from paired G16 units in a V configuration. The advantage there is scalability across multiple platforms to cut costs.

Historically, Toyota has done this before. The JZ engines and the 7M both appeared in other vehicles before becoming Supra powerplants.

Toyota has the resources to do this properly. Given their financial position, a bespoke inline 6 (even one primarily associated with the Supra) isn’t unrealistic at all.

 

[Rob_SER]

time will tell

 

[splv]

Lotta dreamers in this thread. We all need something to hope for in this depressing life.

 

[Bryster]

I’m sticking with what I said months ago.

The G16 architecture is most likely modular. Expanding it by one cylinder would theoretically yield a G20, and pairing two G20s could form the basis of a GR GT V8. From there, Toyota realistically has two paths:

1. two G16s in a V configuration to create a new twin-turbo V6, or
2. two G16s arranged inline to create a new twin-turbo inline-6.

That likely explains the current gap in Toyota’s 6 cylinder lineup. There are probably serious internal discussions about whether the next Supra should use a V6 or an inline 6, especially when hybrid packaging is considered.

At the same time, Toyota is dealing with well-documented issues surrounding the V35A-FTS V6. That makes it reasonable to assume a revised twin-turbo V6 architecture could be under development…potentially derived from paired G16 units in a V configuration. The advantage there is scalability across multiple platforms to cut costs.

Historically, Toyota has done this before. The JZ engines and the 7M both appeared in other vehicles before becoming Supra powerplants.

Toyota has the resources to do this properly. Given their financial position, a bespoke inline 6 (even one primarily associated with the Supra) isn’t unrealistic at all.

there's like an Inline 6 renaissance right now so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility but i can also see Toyota being the only party to reject the invite

 

[KahnBB6]

I am unsure if this is anything to read into as to how it might affect the future of the more attainable GR division vehicles: GR Yaris, GR Corolla, GR 86, GR Supra, GR MR2 / GR Celica, potential S-FR roadster, GR Starlet, potential GR sport sedan like a successor to the Altezza RS200-Z or Mark II / Chaser, etc. or any future enthusiast/gearhead designed GR fun sport EVs.

The GR GT/GT3 is in its own unique high dollar flagship category.

Also as to how it might affect future GR models being bogged down with subscription paywalls for full power of the drivetrains, full driver control of the drivetrains, heated seats, etc.

Akio Toyoda still has considerable influence as chairman and Koji Sato... I hope he still will have considerable influence.


https://www.thedrive.com/news/toyota-trades-passion-for-profit-with-ceo-swap

Toyota Trades Passion for Profit With CEO Swap
After making less money selling more cars, Toyota is trading its enthusiast CEO for a finance guy to fend off challenges in a very tumultuous global economy.

little more than two years after Koji Sato took the reins from Akio Toyoda, the world’s largest automaker has a new top executive. Kenta Kon, 57, will now lead Toyota, having already served as its Chief Financial Officer since 2020.

Unlike Sato and Toyoda, Kon is less a car guy and more a finance guy, though he’s been at Toyota since 1991 and worked as Toyoda’s secretary for eight years. During Kon’s tenure as CFO, the automaker began pushing services and subscriptions alongside vehicles. It’s this initiative that perhaps made Kon an attractive option to the board, as profitability has become a major concern, with Chinese competitors driving prices down and U.S. tariffs upending the global landscape.

“I’m very strict when it comes to money and numbers,” he said to reporters on Friday morning, per Bloomberg. OK, not terribly exciting, but maybe he has a racing driver alter ego we don’t know about yet.

As for Sato, he will shift to a capacity similar to Toyoda’s as vice chairman. But he will also move into a new role the automaker has just created, titled Chief Industry Officer. Toyota’s press release announcing the management shakeup stressed “a growing need to accelerate practical initiatives for industry collaboration to strengthen international competitiveness” as well as a desire to “expand partnerships beyond the industry.”

Considering Sato was also recently appointed chairman of the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association, his focus going forward seems pretty clear: concentrating on manufacturing efficiency and joint ventures to keep the country’s automotive sector—most of all Toyota—poised for success.

This all comes after Toyota sold 3% more vehicles globally than in the previous quarter, yet posted an operating profit that’s 1.9% lower, year-on-year. If you guessed that tariffs might have something to do with that, Toyota agrees. The company projects that its operating profit will land at $23.3 billion upon the conclusion of its fiscal year on March 31, which would represent a 21% drop from the year prior. Yeah, it’s easy to see why they want the finance guy in charge. Kon starts his new job on April 1.

 

[Bryster]

that's interesting

 

[Matador]

I am unsure if this is anything to read into as to how it might affect the future of the more attainable GR division vehicles: GR Yaris, GR Corolla, GR 86, GR Supra, GR MR2 / GR Celica, potential S-FR roadster, GR Starlet, potential GR sport sedan like a successor to the Altezza RS200-Z or Mark II / Chaser, etc. or any future enthusiast/gearhead designed GR fun sport EVs.

The GR GT/GT3 is in its own unique high dollar flagship category.

Also as to how it might affect future GR models being bogged down with subscription paywalls for full power of the drivetrains, full driver control of the drivetrains, heated seats, etc.

Akio Toyoda still has considerable influence as chairman and Koji Sato... I hope he still will have considerable influence.


https://www.thedrive.com/news/toyota-trades-passion-for-profit-with-ceo-swap

Maybe it was too good to last. This actually sucks. A numbers man at the helm is what caused Toyota to kill off it's passion cars in the early 2000's and it took over a decade to come back. Just maybe this is why they spun the GR brand off as it's own entity. They may enjoy a similar level of Autonomy as Lexus has evolved into. Master stroke by Akio if that is the case.

As for the whole scenario with features as a subscription, this is a plague that is spreading across the entire auto industry and I wish that the people that came up with it have a particular corner in hell right next to the guys that came up with software as a subscription.

I hope they don't cut back on their motorsports involvement. At the very least, Toyota these days does motorsport mostly from it's R&D budget rather than marketing opposite to the majority of manufacturers from what I've heard.

 

[KahnBB6]

Maybe it was too good to last. This actually sucks. A numbers man at the helm is what caused Toyota to kill off it's passion cars in the early 2000's and it took over a decade to come back. Just maybe this is why they spun the GR brand off as it's own entity. They may enjoy a similar level of Autonomy as Lexus has evolved into. Master stroke by Akio if that is the case.

As for the whole scenario with features as a subscription, this is a plague that is spreading across the entire auto industry and I wish that the people that came up with it have a particular corner in hell right next to the guys that came up with software as a subscription.

I hope they don't cut back on their motorsports involvement. At the very least, Toyota these days does motorsport mostly from it's R&D budget rather than marketing opposite to the majority of manufacturers from what I've heard.

I had not considered that spinning the GR models and division off into their own sub-brand might allow them to keep on with what they are doing with better autonomy and protection than they have had under the Toyota brand.

*IF* that is the case it is a very good move from Akio Toyoda. Also, while this soon to be former CFO will soon have CEO control of the company... Toyoda still has tremendous influence as Chairman and I don't think Kenta Kon would want to risk pissing him off by curtailing or outright killing off the vehicles and brand that is his baby.

I think the very smart strategic moves Toyoda made during his years as CEO to have R&D design the G16E 3-cyl and G20E 4-cyl with extensive engine family variant intentions from performance to regular to hybrid in multiple displacements.

This also allowed the built-upon R&D basis for the GR GT's engine to be developed and would potentially allow for future development of an I-6 or V-6 from the G16E's R&D and already successful cost amortization in the GR Yaris, GR Corolla and soon the GR Starlet.

The GR division's approach of sometimes co-developing platforms and/or heavily reworking some existing Toyota platform also helps.

All of this and the sales track record so far has the best chance of allowing the GR division all the groundwork they need (and will need) to be allowed to continue to prove their fiscal accountability to incoming CEO Kenta Kon going forward.

...

I really hope it all wasn't too good to be true. The great iconic 80's-00's Toyota cars began during and just after the early 90's economic bubble economy. The great platforms and R&D just carried on as long as they possibly could.

Today Toyoda helped GR make a business case for itself under totally different market conditions.

Hopefully the new CEO also sees it this way (and not want to raise the ire of Toyoda so long as the division is doing well).

As for software managed subscriptions for features that we commonly have always viewed as being a permanent part of the car... I completely agree with you.

 

[Bryster]

I must ask, will all Toyota engines be modular from here on? The 2GR and V35A were used for everything we even thought it was going to be used for the A100

 

[KahnBB6]

I must ask, will all Toyota engines be modular from here on? The 2GR and V35A were used for everything we even thought it was going to be used for the A100

For GR model engines and whichever Lexus models also share the powertrains I'd fully expect this in addition to whichever of the GR models happen to use a shared engine design with reworking from Toyota.

Once the Supra MKV and current GR86 aren't on sale any longer the next generations of each look to move to Toyota engine architectures... even if a chassis/platform is shared with another company.

...Unless the Mazda 3.3L I-6 turbo engine as a starting base for some applications is still a possibility. But Toyota doing their own I-6 and V-6 would be just as possible for different models. Having both wouldn't surprise me considering the I-3 R&D has already been paying for itself for several years now.

For the S-FR, Cappuccino and Copen trio it's unclear if all three companies designed a new engine for all three co-developed shared platform cars from scratch or if they started with a G16E and destroked and detuned it a bit (shared engine development to also be used in the GR Starlet was the previous speculation but we have had zero updates on that).

For the overall Toyota motor group companies I suspect this might also be the strategy but potential new modular engine families might not necessarily overlap with what the GR division uses.

A modular engine family approach under current market conditions and given what Akio Toyoda has wanted for his passion division and all the other brands, not to mention flexible new engines capable of hybridization or non-hybridization is probably the best way for a long term R&D plan to stretch over many years to come... and make better financial sense.

I suspect all the drawn out development of the G20E engine goes WAY beyond just what has been planned for the GR and Lexus divisions when all the many variants as an engine family are considered.

 

[PerformanceSound]

If Toyota makes a 4cyl Supra, they will be shooting themselves in the foot….it makes no sense from a brand and marketing standpoint. It will not be an attractive package! Think about it, all of its competition will either be a twin turbo V6, twin turbo I6, twin turbo H6, V8, Supercharged V8, or better. They won’t show up to the game with a 4cyl Supra. The question now is, will it be a V6 or I6?? Also, today’s advancements in engine development from an existing modular design is far easier to make than in the previous generations. The G16 was the hint at what’s coming. Just sayin…

 

[KahnBB6]

This is also interesting. Akio Toyoda wants his "Century" brand to succeed and so the high ride ultra luxury coupe they're designing for it will apparently use... a hybrid V12.

If this holds true (and for the market they are going for it would be a smart move to use a V12) Toyota isn't going to renew their partnership with BMW for their B58D just to spend tremendous money to re-engineer someone else's I-6 engine tooling into their own bespoke engine.

And it's very unlikely BMW would let them do that with their bread and butter B58 I-6 anyway. Certainly not after Toyota wasn't allowed to use their M-division S58 I-6 in even an extremely limited production Supra MKV.

That leaves Mazda's I-6 as a starting basis... or perhaps the G16E I-3 x4. Or some existing derivative of the G16E's architecture.

Toyoda et al probably want to relive the glory of being the only Japanese automaker with their own in-house designed V-12. In the 90's the 1GZ-FE V12 was made from merging two 1JZ-GE/GTE 2.5L's to make a 5.0L. For the money they are going to charge for these things at the volume they will make them the cost can be justified I'm sure.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/will-toyotas-rolls-royce-and-bentley-rival-have-an-800-hp-v12

Will Toyota’s Rolls-Royce and Bentley Rival Have an 800-HP V12?
A new report suggests Toyota is gunning for the pinnacle of luxury with a twin-turbo 6.0-liter V12 for its upcoming Century Coupe.

The dazzling Century Coupe concept that Toyota unveiled last October in Tokyo represented more than a vision. It was a statement of intent to pursue the pinnacle of automotive luxury and take the fight to Bentley and Rolls-Royce—not just in Japan but around the world. A new rumor has revived hope that Toyota will do this not with merely any internal-combustion engine, but with an electrically assisted, twin-turbocharged, 6.0-liter V12, good for a total output of 800 horsepower.

Yes, Toyota had our curiosity, but now it has our attention. The report originated in Magazine X, a Japanese auto publication, and comes to us by way of our friends at MotorTrend. This stout hybrid powertrain will supposedly be paired with all-wheel drive for the high-riding coupe and, of course, an automatic transmission. What, you expected the typical Century client to row their own gears?

The engine is reportedly still in development, and it’s currently unclear whether Toyota has opted to cast the thing from scratch or double up on the 3.0-liter BMW six-cylinder it knows well from the GR Supra.

These are some of the many questions surrounding the two-door, amber coupe we saw last fall. Toyota has confirmed that this new Century will be a global product, but it’s too early to tell when we’ll actually be able to see it in the flesh. Chances are strong it’ll be sold through Lexus dealerships here in the States, but naturally, not just any Lexus dealership. Only those that meet the exacting standards befitting the Century marque—not to mention the $200K-plus GR GT—will have the privilege of carrying Toyota’s most exclusive vehicles alongside UX Hybrids that cost a fifth as much.

One thing is for sure, though: If that’s the retail strategy Toyota goes for, it’ll be an unusual sight. As of last year, every V12-equipped vehicle still for sale came from a European marque. We’re talking Ferrari, Aston Martin, Maybach, Rolls-Royce, Lamborghini, and Gordon Murray. Imagine Toyota making itself a part of that elite company. As the world’s largest automaker, it’s about time.

 

[KahnBB6]

If Toyota makes a 4cyl Supra, they will be shooting themselves in the foot….it makes no sense from a brand and marketing standpoint. It will not be an attractive package! Think about it, all of its competition will either be a twin turbo V6, twin turbo I6, twin turbo H6, V8, Supercharged V8, or better. They won’t show up to the game with a 4cyl Supra. The question now is, will it be a V6 or I6?? Also, today’s advancements in engine development from an existing modular design is far easier to make than in the previous generations. The G16 was the hint at what’s coming. Just sayin…

The G16E very likely is a strong hint of what's coming. Also as referenced to the Century Coupe if they're really going to give it a V-12. They're going to sell an exclusive ultra-luxury flagship and will have to design that engine from something. Their pride as an automaker would almost certainly dictate they'll make their own V-12.

I don't think there's any question that the Supra MKV is going to get a turbo inline-six engine option (whether it's hybrid or not). Hopefully with a manual transmission option.

However it DOES make a lot of sense that there will also be a powerful 4cyl G20E 2.0L (2.0L being a very key number) turbocharged hybrid electric Supra MKVI. At least for some global markets.

Why? Well... total global sales potential and engine displacement taxation above 2.0L in some markets like Japan, Italy, France, etc.

Traditionally for the Supra there has been a 2.0L displacement version offered. The MKIII did this with a 1G-GTE twin turbo 2.0L I-6 from 1986-1992. They didn't do it for the MKV and went back to it with a not so great B48 2.0L.

But if they offer an actually decently powerful 2.0L hybrid trim level for the global markets that need it the Supra MKVI will be more accessible to more buyers than it would be with just a 3.0L or so engine... even if more would aspire to owning the higher displacement engine option if they could justify it.

Toyota doing all of their own engine designs this time (hopefully) will go a long way.

I don't think they're going to put in a lackluster 2.0L. The G20E already has a variant with a 400hp target output for road legal production. They may or may not reserve 400hp+ total output for a larger I-6 engine option. Maybe an I-6 option will go higher than that in road legal stock tune-- no way to know at this time.

But Toyota knows they need and want as many sales as possible and they have a great 4cyl 2.0L to use to offer great power within the bounds of a lower taxation bracket for customers who will need it.

In the U.S. this will probably be a moot issue unless A) Even the Supra needs a lower displacement hybrid engine to lower the overall fleet emissions and fuel economy for the model under U.S. regulations... or B) Toyota holds to their mandate that EVERY newly designed model from 2026 onward will offer, at minimum, at least a hybrid trim level.

I don't think this is bad strategy at all if if maximizes marketability and sales of the Supra as far and wide as possible. Especially if they are also going to offer a new I-6 engine alongside a 4cyl hybrid.

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