Low-cost Alternative to Intake Manifold???

[rwense]

Hello everyone, you may remember me as "the diff brace guy" or "dude who insists his logo is a boat and not a forklift like everyone else thinks", or simply as my business name: Rapid Designs.

I'm doing a bit of market research for a potential product and need some feedback from the populace. PLEASE answer truthfully, as this poll will directly influence a future product.

I'm looking at the possibility of introducing a kit to solve high IATs for those at OEM or OEM+ power levels at a lower cost than the current batch of intake manifolds on the market. If you are unfamiliar with Supra IAT issues, essentially the only way to truly keep IATs in check, and thus not pull power, is to upgrade the intake manifold. This costs AT LEAST $2000 and can be a bit of an operation for those who may not be as mechanically inclined. Additionally all heat exchangers on the market (except maybe PWR) are downgrades compared to OEM and have not proven to actually lower IATs. The reason is due to their construction. OEM cores are built with a copper/aluminum matrix whereas aftermarket cores are built solely with aluminum. The only true solution is the manifold. But what if we add......another?

Thank you for reading and answering the poll I appreciate everyone's time

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[doowatchyalike]

Could this solution be used in conjunction with an upgraded mani?

 

[TBK]

The average heat exchanger costs around $750 or so. I'd fork out $1,200 for soemthing that actually works

 

[rwense]

Could this solution be used in conjunction with an upgraded mani?

Ideally yes, although you might have more pressure loss.

 

[rottmore]

So I'll start out by saying...Sorry, this is going to be far from OEM or OEM+ power and won't be at the price point you're trying to target, but maybe I can get you curious enough to push you down the rabbit hole of a stage 2 or 3 kit.
I vote +1750 since I don't mind spending a premium if it's a good quality product. Something that's Plug n Play or Set and Forget would be nice.



Not saying that an interchiller kit is a cost effective solution, and yes there is a bit of an S-curve in torque per IAT, where the benefits from 0 timing corrections start to taper off at some point.
But I see a massive benefit for people who live in very hot dry climates. The problem is maintaining a specific Delta T and staying above the dew point to prevent water buildup in the manifold from condensation, causing misfires.
I’m curious to see how Gamma handles this. If it's being regulated on the coolant side or the refrigerant side. Is it using an active thermal management system that monitors dewpoint inside the manifold? Is it using a PID thermal map on a Reflex+?

Also curious to see how an interchiller kit would pair with your external A2W manifold test.
Assuming you replace your intake manifold with a traditional A2A IM for higher airflow. I see it giving you an opportunity to target colder coolant temps, since the water would pool at the lowest point of the charge pipes, rather than dripping into the ports.
Bright side of an external A2W+A2A IM with an interchiller would be easy oil filter changes aaaand........................ adding a water injection kit without knowing it ........... will it be the best way to vaporized water? Not at all... but it's there.

 

[rwense]

So I'll start out by saying...Sorry, this is going to be far from OEM or OEM+ power and won't be at the price point you're trying to target, but maybe I can get you curious enough to push you down the rabbit hole of a stage 2 or 3 kit.
I vote +1750 since I don't mind spending a premium if it's a good quality product. Something that's Plug n Play or Set and Forget would be nice.



Not saying that an interchiller kit is a cost effective solution, and yes there is a bit of an S-curve in torque per IAT, where the benefits from 0 timing corrections start to taper off at some point.
But I see a massive benefit for people who live in very hot dry climates. The problem is maintaining a specific Delta T and staying above the dew point to prevent water buildup in the manifold from condensation, causing misfires.
I’m curious to see how Gamma handles this. If it's being regulated on the coolant side or the refrigerant side. Is it using an active thermal management system that monitors dewpoint inside the manifold? Is it using a PID thermal map on a Reflex+?

Also curious to see how an interchiller kit would pair with your external A2W manifold test. Assuming you replace your intake manifold with a traditional A2A IM for higher airflow.
I see it giving you an opportunity to target colder coolant temps, since the water would pool at the lowest point of the charge pipes, rather than dripping into the ports.
Bright side of an external A2W+A2A IM with an interchiller would be easy oil filter changes aaaand........................ adding a water injection kit without knowing it ........... will it be the best way to vaporized water? Not at all... but it's there.

I like where your head is at! Assuming the product im hoping to develop works out, I could potentially see something you're referring to down the road. The company im in talks with could 100% do it, and make it a quality bit of kit for sure.

Ill keep this in mind going forward though! My big thing is giving people options. Everyone doesnt always need the best of the best so options are important.

Thanks!

 

[rwense]

HINT HINT HINT

 

[Z4m40i]

I know Bailey woods uses something similar for his b48 setup on his e36 m3. I haven’t seen him at a speed ventures event in a long time so I haven’t been able to ask him about it.

if this is the direction you’re going, take my money now. I’ve been needing something in addition to my manifold for over a year and I didn’t want to deal with running water/meth injection.

 

[itzTang]

better have the logo

 

[Thraxbert]

I've contemplated DIYing what I think you're about to do. Even with a yuuuge manifold, I'd still line up to buy. More is better.

 

[rwense]

I know Bailey woods uses something similar for his b48 setup on his e36 m3. I haven’t seen him at a speed ventures event in a long time so I haven’t been able to ask him about it.

if this is the direction you’re going, take my money now. I’ve been needing something in addition to my manifold for over a year and I didn’t want to deal with running water/meth injection.

Its funny you mention him, I reached out to ask him where he got his w2a core and come to find out, it was where I was originally looking lol. But I also realized, if I try to develop a kit on my own, it's going to be much harder to fully vet it with enough data and testing such that id feel comfortable releasing it. So instead im talking with a company im sure a lot of people here will be familiar with.

I have zero doubts the end product will be effective and well built, but the minimum order quantity and pricing will ultimately be the make or break here, hence the poll.

If it turns out to not be viable, maybe I will re-evaluate and go more of a DIY route. Guess we'll see!

I can already tell you the MOQ/min investment for myself is uhh.....quite a bit

 

[Timmy_Jones]

better have the logo

And a shirt (or shorts)

 

[rottmore]

HINT HINT HINT

Yea... I recall razorlab post those photos of the GT4 EVO2 using a small external A2W intercooler. If I remember correctly he mentioned it was tied to the A/C system. If you do get your mini A2W intercooler project going, I'd definitely go with a PWR core.

 

[rwense]

Yea... I recall razorlab post those photos of the GT4 EVO2 using a small external A2W intercooler. If I remember correctly he mentioned it was tied to the A/C system. If you do get your mini A2W intercooler project going, I'd definitely go with a PWR core.

Correct, although it is not tied into the A/C system. The GT4 cars tie the supplementary A2W IC into the engine engine cooling circuit rather than the low temp circuit. That is directly from a GT4 owner.

Agreed, a PWR core would be ideal. Funny enough i quite literally talked to someone at PWR today. But for a completely different industry lol

 

[AJRMKV]

HINT HINT HINT

Hey man, idk wtf that is but I am IN.

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