2021 Lexus IS Sedan + IS500 F SPORT

2JZ-No-Sh*t

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Right, I just think the different tier IS’s were fine as is, and to spend extra time and money on a V8 variant that’s not really a true “F” car is (to me) wasted efforts. It will be a nice collector piece one day for sure because of it’s limited numbers, but hopefully they don’t continue with the 5.0 V8...it doesn’t seem to have caught on like they expected. Do you agree? Now, do I hate it? No. Would I ever buy one? No. I had a 2nd Gen IS350 when they first came out. The car made sense at the time because it competed well with BMW M3’s of it’s day (not as good, but almost there for much less). It was relevant for the market at the time. This car (IS 500) I’m still trying to understand where it is relevant in today’s market? What segment does this fall under? Just another IS with a V8?
I don't think there is much of a future for the 2UR. The industry as a whole is moving towards lower displacement turbo charged engines, hybrids, EVs and so on. Regarding past models with the 5.0 I don't believe it was the engine itself that was solely the issue. As stated: GS-F overpriced, RC-F overweight mismatched chassis, and the LC was kind of expensive for a parts bin car (A70TTR shares this thought as well).

I kind of agree with you. This IS500 would have made a lot more sense back at the initial launch of the 3rd gen IS back in 2013. Personally I wouldn't buy one either. Not because I hate it (on the contrary I'm glad something like this even exist with the climate we're in), but I'm just not in the market for a sedan of any type.

Just because it doesn't appeal to you and me doesn't mean there isn't a market for it. I'm sure Lexus did their survey and focus group before committing to this project. As I have said the feedback for this car has been pretty good overall. We also have to keep in mind that it is a North American only model. Americans love their V8s. :D

Moving forward now. I think after Toyota cuts its ties with BMW and strengthens its relationship Mazda we could see a next gen IS, RC, and A100 Supra all developed on a new module platform.




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F1 Silver Arrows

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Moving forward now. I think after Toyota cuts its ties with BMW and strengthens its relationship Mazda we could see a next gen IS, RC, and A100 Supra all developed on a new module platform.
Am I the only one that is honestly not excited about this Mazda partnership at all? I honestly don't expect anything meaningful to come out of it. I don't know why but it's a horrible feeling that I have. I'd much rather have the BMW B58 become a Toyota engine and they have a ZF8 for the automatic option.

The platform can slowly become more Toyota-sourced as well because developing a new platform for something dedicated like that with Mazda will become insane in terms of costs. They already did it with BMW, why do it again?

In short, I think this BMW partnership works well and I don't have any reasons why it cannot work in the future. The A90 GR Supra happened with BMW because they didn't have much to go off of. Now they do and that problem is solved. Ideally and this is what may happen, I would much rather they do things on their own and not with Mazda.

The Mazda inline-six isn't going to be equipped with a turbocharger and on it's own I remember once talking the horsepower specs with someone and it's truly a huge step down from the A90.
 

gymratter

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from what im reading on the BMW side it's the Germans that are wanting to kill off the G29 after 2025. a bit hard to continue a partnership when it's the automaker that is doing to the supplying and R&D that wants to pull the plug.

back on topic, since it's not a straight up F car; the competition from BMW and MB are priced in the mid $50k mark.
 

kona61

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I think that the whole Mazda tie-up is good, but for the wrong reasons. Us petrolheads forget that this is a changing world. Matter of fact, this new IS500 isn't going to be sold outside North America. Why? Because tightening emissions and the push for electrification. Even if Mazda were to help develop these new "enthusiast" platforms, I promise it would give automotive traditionalists something to bitch about. They'd be mostly, if not totally electric. Developing electrified vehicles is the main reason Toyota and Mazda are buddy-buds.

Also, I would like to point out, the only reason Lexus gets away with these frankly anachronic motors is because Toyota and Lexus are both companies who sell the vast majority of hybrids in their respective classes. Their fleet CO2 emissions, avg. MPG, etc. have enough leeway they can afford to use these motors and not worry. It's the whole reason that while everyone else has moved to turbo's or worse hybridization (the new C63 will have a hybrid 4 cylinder), Toyota merrily chugs along at 25 mpg.

Now I will say that I absolutely love this car. My family currently has a M340i. When the lease is up, I am going to try my darndest to get and keep an IS500 assuming it even has mediocre reviews. I made the mistake of getting rid of my E92 M3 and will not make the same mistake on what is likely the swan-song of the V8 outside of domestics.
 

supradupra

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I bet that thing rips....that V8 is a solid motor....my boy has a LC500 and that car goes and is super heavy..... that N/A V8 sings so nice it sounds incredible
 

PerformanceSound

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Yeah, the motor is solid...I think everyone can agree Toyota powertrains are bulletproof. Realistically though, other car makers have been setting the bar high for years now with smaller displacement engines that outperform 8+ cylinder engines. As a result, people have become more interested in smaller displacement forced induction engines. The M3 did away with the V8 years ago and has never looked back. Same thing with Audi on their similar tiered RS cars. I get the allure of a V8, personally though, I feel like it’s not fitting of this type of car. A Luxury sports sedan should be a technical marvel with the latest engine designs. If all Lexus did was cram an outdated V8 in a new chassis....meh. Honestly, a low mileage RCF would be a better buy. No? Same engine, 4 seats, much nicer looking interior, and slightly better looking. What are used RCF’s going for nowadays?....$35k?
 

vb22

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What's funny is the new C-Class (4 banger only) was just shown today. But on the forums no one really gives a crap about it. However, people are still going on and on about the IS500 which should have been yesterdays news.
 

2JZ-No-Sh*t

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So after saying it's apples to oranges to compare the IS500 to the Supra I'm going to point out one area of commonality.

Both cars are one last attempt to put a smiley on petrolhead faces. Enjoy it while you can boys. In a few years all of your cars will just be making buzzing sounds.
 

PerformanceSound

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So after saying it's apples to oranges to compare the IS500 to the Supra I'm going to point out one area of commonality.

Both cars are one last attempt to put a smiley on petrolhead faces. Enjoy it while you can boys. In a few years all of your cars will just be making buzzing sounds.
I suppose you are correct....it just doesn’t seem like car makers care about making exciting cars anymore. Pretty soon every car will have the “same” engines. Green New Deal :doh:.
 

kona61

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What's funny is the new C-Class (4 banger only) was just shown today. But on the forums no one really gives a crap about it. However, people are still going on and on about the IS500 which should have been yesterdays news.
Why should they care? It ruins the soul of the C63. Might as well just get a Tesla considering you’re halfway there lol.
 

CSUfiend

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Very happy to see this car. Lexus is alive and well after all! I think pricing will be an important point seeing that they purposely didn’t make this a full blown F car.

I like this old school approach with the V8 engine. Like in the late late 60’s, just put a 454 into a Chevy that can fit it, a 428 into a Ford, 440 into a Mopar:drive: I wonder if a business case can be made to stuff this motor into other current RWD/4WD platforms like the LS/GX/LX... especially with the looming changing times that we’re in.

As someone who had a Lexus, I still wouldn’t get this car over an a90. I know things are different, but back in the early 2000’s, I could’ve bought an a80 but choose a Lexus GS400 instead. I know it sounds ridiculous in many ways looking at it today, but the GS400 was a serious machine back in the day... spiritually, it was the predecessor to the F (and now, F-Sport Performance) cars. I still see that parallel and it still makes me think about my decision back then.

The future looks interesting for Lexus. I really wish they would put more investment into Infotainment systems as well. Not asking to reinvent the wheel, just get rid of that mouse thing, put in wireless CarPlay/Android Auto, and that’s good enough to call it a day for me.
 

PerformanceSound

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Very happy to see this car. Lexus is alive and well after all! I think pricing will be an important point seeing that they purposely didn’t make this a full blown F car.

I like this old school approach with the V8 engine. Like in the late late 60’s, just put a 454 into a Chevy that can fit it, a 428 into a Ford, 440 into a Mopar:drive: I wonder if a business case can be made to stuff this motor into other current RWD/4WD platforms like the LS/GX/LX... especially with the looming changing times that we’re in.

As someone who had a Lexus, I still wouldn’t get this car over an a90. I know things are different, but back in the early 2000’s, I could’ve bought an a80 but choose a Lexus GS400 instead. I know it sounds ridiculous in many ways looking at it today, but the GS400 was a serious machine back in the day... spiritually, it was the predecessor to the F (and now, F-Sport Performance) cars. I still see that parallel and it still makes me think about my decision back then.

The future looks interesting for Lexus. I really wish they would put more investment into Infotainment systems as well. Not asking to reinvent the wheel, just get rid of that mouse thing, put in wireless CarPlay/Android Auto, and that’s good enough to call it a day for me.
For $60k, I would take an A90/91 any day over any Lexus sports car made within the last decade. Don’t get me wrong, I love Lexus as a brand for luxury and reliability....but when it comes to sports cars / sports sedans (no matter what segment), they always under-deliver. The Euro cars have cornered the market for that. If they just made that V8 more tuner friendly, alot more buyers would be interested. It’s very difficult and very expensive to mod that V8.
 

kona61

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Very happy to see this car. Lexus is alive and well after all! I think pricing will be an important point seeing that they purposely didn’t make this a full blown F car.

I like this old school approach with the V8 engine. Like in the late late 60’s, just put a 454 into a Chevy that can fit it, a 428 into a Ford, 440 into a Mopar:drive: I wonder if a business case can be made to stuff this motor into other current RWD/4WD platforms like the LS/GX/LX... especially with the looming changing times that we’re in.

As someone who had a Lexus, I still wouldn’t get this car over an a90. I know things are different, but back in the early 2000’s, I could’ve bought an a80 but choose a Lexus GS400 instead. I know it sounds ridiculous in many ways looking at it today, but the GS400 was a serious machine back in the day... spiritually, it was the predecessor to the F (and now, F-Sport Performance) cars. I still see that parallel and it still makes me think about my decision back then.

The future looks interesting for Lexus. I really wish they would put more investment into Infotainment systems as well. Not asking to reinvent the wheel, just get rid of that mouse thing, put in wireless CarPlay/Android Auto, and that’s good enough to call it a day for me.
I’m fairly certain it does have wireless car play and AA. Also has a new touchscreen which makes the infotainment usable.
 

CSUfiend

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For $60k, I would take an A90/91 any day over any Lexus sports car made within the last decade. Don’t get me wrong, I love Lexus as a brand for luxury and reliability....but when it comes to sports cars / sports sedans (no matter what segment), they always under-deliver. The Euro cars have cornered the market for that. If they just made that V8 more tuner friendly, alot more buyers would be interested. It’s very difficult and very expensive to mod that V8.
I agree with that because I think everything goes back to price. The original LS400 was a great car, but what made it a real hit was the fact that the starting price undercut the Germans. Now, I understand that the cost to do business goes up for a car company that makes quality cars, but if you think about it, the Lexus brand hasn’t taken off the way that it looked like it would back in the 90’s. I think it’s due to price. As the LS got more and more expensive, it was less successful.

look, I understand that a $36,000 Lexus LS400 in 1990 (price wise) wasn’t going to last forever. I get that. I bet they lost a ton of money per car, so of course that wasn’t sustainable.

But also consider that in this market when you go above several price brackets, you hit a new market. Suddenly, it’s no longer people moving up from Camry’s and such. You have a market where there’s a certain snob appeal where the Toyota mystique of quality and reliability suddenly doesn’t mean that much.

I think the Lexus brand shouldn’t necessarily compete head to head with the German luxury brands price for price. It will always lose. In some cases, the cars can’t compete performance wise but in cases where it can, I think the badge plays a role in the (lack of) success as well. They need to go back to the original LS400 formula for their lineup from top to bottom.

If the GS-F had been priced right, I have a feeling people would have a totally different assessment of that car. For all of the short comings of the RC-F, once again, pricing would’ve made a huge difference.And yes, this means the regular GS and RC would probably benefit from being cheaper than what they are as well.

This brings me to my last point of satisfying your original customers. There’s no badge loyalty for a Japanese car company when you get to a certain price point, so why not make cars that cater to the customers that have built up your brand and reputation? What I’m saying is, cars like the RC-F and GS-F should be more within reach for those moving UP from Camrys/Avalon’s/ES350’s.

I say that because I consider myself one of them. I feel like the Toyota Camry (or any V6 Lexus for that matter) has been at 300hp or 6sec/0-60 and 14sec/Quarter mile for a long long time now. I need something that delivers more without going into the $70k range. And why should I be subjugation to paying double that price just because I want more performance?

look, I get that the average Toyota guy doesn’t care about performance.. blah blah blah... Camry V6 take rate is only 10%... blah blah blah (although the Avalon also cannibalizes those sales as well) I get that. But there are people like me that Toyota has forgotten about. And I know at least a few who have been forced to go German as they moved up in income/success. Why else do you think I’m on an a90 Supra message board? The A90 is essentially the only pit stop between the typical corporate V6 Toyota/Lexus car and the (priced way too high) F lineup.

Believe it or not, Toyota.. if you actually cater to your original customer base that appreciates your reliability and reputation, they will buy your cars! I’m not saying make an F car that any Camry driver can afford, but make one that they can aspire to own without taking out a 2nd mortgage. If you make the GS-F double the price of an ES350, that ES350 driver could probably never aspire to own that GS-F. And that BMW guy ain’t touching that either because he can have an m550i for cheaper.. so what’s the point of the Gs-F again?

Lexus could easily occupy the spot that Buick occupied for decades in America: comfortable cars with respectable performance without the premium cost of a top end machine. I know some folks laugh at that notion, but within the realm of American cars, there have been quite a few respectable Buick’s that can even be considered classics. If priced right, the IS500 F-sport performance will go a long way in heading towards that route.
 

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