2022 Model Year Toyota GR Supra

[Jeonsa]

In general every year less people want to shift gears themselves in sports cars if annual sales figures of auto vs manual versions of the same sportscar, hot hatch and other enthusiast models are any indication. It’s an overall trend that encompasses sportscars. It just took fewer decades for automatics to become the only transmission available in non enthusiast vehicles.

I’ve said this before: the point of a manual transmission in any modern sporty car, sportscar, hot hatch, sport sedan or muscle car isn’t to “keep up” with the modern automatics and DCTs. It’s to have fun with it. Though the number of buyers who want that kind of fun dwindle each year and though emissions, fuel economy regulations and active safety features are going to kill off the few manuals still on offer in a few years some people still want them.

There are plenty of great choices among those models you mentioned. One of those “slower” 911’s with a manual transmission sounds very appealing and fun. But then again the fun factor is more important to me than the 0-60 time being slower than the one in a PDK model.

To each their own. We all like what we like. Manual offerings will be regulated out of existence before all the interested parties for them dries up. Otherwise the models you mentioned above wouldn’t be on sale today.

I see nothing wrong with the MKV Supra getting a manual transmission option for those who want it. It’s existence would take nothing away from the current 3.0 and 2.0 ZF8 models or from the GRMN edition coming later.

I mean to add to your point of the “feeling” a manual gives you, Toyota/Lexus have stated before that they try to make the auto high performance cars shift like manuals for feel. (LFA, ISF, RCF, GSF) They feel like it enhances driver engagement while benefiting from the speed of autos. Downside is you get a lot of journalist who say it doesn’t shift as fast as whatever. But I get both sides though.

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[Dannyvandelft]

The most fun cars to drive have always been true MT, well and sequential. One of my all time favorite cars was my Evo not super fast, just bolt ons and tuned, but a blast to drive!
I drove an R32 Skyline with a 6spd sequential which was pretty freaking awesome as well even though its just shift up shift down, no H patten

So what's the difference between pushing a sequential shifter forwards and backwards, or the ZF8 stick in the center dash forwards and backwards? It's the same thing lol.

 

[Axix23]

Well, one thing I like is you can’t over rev like a manual. Lol How many times you hear somebody downshifting and messing something up on manuals. Lol

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Well, one thing I like is you can’t over rev like a manual. Lol How many times you hear somebody downshifting and messing something up on manuals. Lol

Yeah true. Always fun to watch somebody lurch forward and stall at the lights. Or the grinding crunch of a crappy shift

 

[KahnBB6]

Well, one thing I like is you can’t over rev like a manual. Lol How many times you hear somebody downshifting and messing something up on manuals. Lol

That's solved very simply by getting to know the vehicle and its manual transmission's gearing and learning exactly how the shift pattern feels as if it's second nature. Just *don't* mis-shift at high speed thinking for instance you're in 3rd when you wanted to select 5th. Not all manual transmissions shift the same way or feel the same but an over-rev can be avoided.

Yeah true. Always fun to watch somebody lurch forward and stall at the lights. Or the grinding crunch of a crappy shift

I don't have a problem with this myself and I daily drive with a very grabby OS Giken twin disc clutch. I can't speak for others.

 

[max]

I am willing to bet half of the currently a90 owners can’t even drive a manual. I know a few locally. Lol ?

AGREE

Learned to drive in a manual before I drove an automatic. Experience even back then going from a Toyota Celica (manual) to an Olds Cutlass Supreme was night and day. Rowing the gears made me feel as if I could outrun anything on the road......I guess that is the "feeling" you get when driving a manual.

Back when Toyotas were REAL Toyotas....

 

[digicidal]

I think a huge part of the appeal is the satisfaction in the "DIY aspect" alone. I'll avoid using the word "engagement" so Danny isn't triggered... LOL. Naturally there's no risk of a money-shift with the auto... but there's also no sense of satisfaction in hitting that perfect rev matched downshift while braking.

That doesn't change the fact that an automatic is "better" by every single objective metric - it's the subjective impact on our brains that makes the difference. Some of us anyway. Arguments over semantics are immaterial in that case.

To draw some analogies:
There is no objective advantage to vinyl over digital - it's inferior in every way (rare/out-of-print content and over-compression notwithstanding). It's still more satisfying to pull an LP from it's jacket and spin it "old school" than simply browse to the song I want and click play.

I can produce a much better and more accurate image using my tablet and software, printed on an automatically calibrated printer, than I can ever manually create with a canvas and brushes. I still prefer the latter unless time-to-completion is a significant factor.

It's natrual for inferior technologies to eventually disappear... but there are some losses involved. It would be nice to have a choice - however, the manual will definitely disappear from existence in the near future. Followed by the internal combustion engine... and possibly even the concept of individual ownership and modification, eventually - whether regulated out of existence, or by demand reductions to the point of economic infeasibility.

 

[Vexeclipse2007]

Any idea when they will announce the 2022s? Waiting for the announcement so i can get a heavy discount on the 21s

 

[Kiske]

Any idea when they will announce the 2022s? Waiting for the announcement so i can get a heavy discount on
the 21s

No one knows. With chip and conductor shortages, plants worldwide temporarly closing down, supply low you might not get deep discounts like the 2020's had.

 

[max]

Any idea when they will announce the 2022s? Waiting for the announcement so i can get a heavy discount on the 21s

Check a couple days a week at local dealers and right now, only discounts are on 2.0's. I guess they need to move these things as many have been on the lots for as long as 200 days!!! One I test drove was at around 150 days......

Only speaking for my area but I don't expect much in the discount realm. Folks are still paying near premium prices for the 3.0 so no need to offer much on discounts.

 

[max]

I think a huge part of the appeal is the satisfaction in the "DIY aspect" alone. I'll avoid using the word "engagement" so Danny isn't triggered... LOL. Naturally there's no risk of a money-shift with the auto... but there's also no sense of satisfaction in hitting that perfect rev matched downshift while braking.

Back in the day, there was no real "mindset" of 0-60/ 1/4 mile times.....we just loved the idea of changing gears regardless of the car. even the most basic vehicle was much more enjoyable when changing the gears manually. Do the paddle shifters produce any of this affect???: maybe a little as I use mine 90% of the time just to keep the vehicle in the rev range vs. hoping the auto figures out what I want to do...........My 93 RX7 was a 5-speed and 5th gear was mainly for the hywy. Top speed was achieved in 4th but getting there "manually" was half the fun!!!

 

[Dannyvandelft]

I think a huge part of the appeal is the satisfaction in the "DIY aspect" alone. I'll avoid using the word "engagement" so Danny isn't triggered... LOL. Naturally there's no risk of a money-shift with the auto... but there's also no sense of satisfaction in hitting that perfect rev matched downshift while braking.

That doesn't change the fact that an automatic is "better" by every single objective metric - it's the subjective impact on our brains that makes the difference. Some of us anyway. Arguments over semantics are immaterial in that case.

To draw some analogies:
There is no objective advantage to vinyl over digital - it's inferior in every way (rare/out-of-print content and over-compression notwithstanding). It's still more satisfying to pull an LP from it's jacket and spin it "old school" than simply browse to the song I want and click play.

I can produce a much better and more accurate image using my tablet and software, printed on an automatically calibrated printer, than I can ever manually create with a canvas and brushes. I still prefer the latter unless time-to-completion is a significant factor.

It's natrual for inferior technologies to eventually disappear... but there are some losses involved. It would be nice to have a choice - however, the manual will definitely disappear from existence in the near future. Followed by the internal combustion engine... and possibly even the concept of individual ownership and modification, eventually - whether regulated out of existence, or by demand reductions to the point of economic infeasibility.

I get all that, of course. And for the 2.0 that would all work and make sense. I've always said that it should have a manual option. But the 3.0 "halo" car, like with just about every manufacturer, only comes in the fastest version. With a DCT/auto. They know numbers sell cars. And a manual 3.0 wouldn't be much quicker to 60 than an auto 2.0. Those numbers also say that the vast majority given the option will buy auto/DCT over manual anyway, so there's not many sales lost if they just drop it from the lineup completely. Even less when you factor in the "I'd like a manual, but I'll take an auto if I have to" group. I'll concede that CERTAIN manuals are really fun to drive, like the aforementioned STI with it's great rod driven transmission, the Miata/MX-5 is good, gated manuals like a Ferrari 360 or the like are fantastic of course, but a BMW just isn't. Every manual BMW I've driven has just been bleh. So in my opinion, the 3.0 Supra, with a sloppy BMW manual, would not be better, or more fun, than the ZF8. to give an analogy like you, shifting the STI is like sliding a bolt action rifle. Very satisfying. Shifting a BMW, (or a regular WRX) is like stirring a bowl of syrup with a wooden spoon.

 

[digicidal]

Yes, it's unfortunate that even if there was a manual version eventually that it wouldn't be a good manual. In the prior mention of the GT4... that is kind of my benchmark comparison. I find both transmission options to be "desirable" for different reasons in the case of Porsche. While there is no performance-related reason to opt for the manual... it is equally enjoyable to drive in that case.

One of the advantages (or disadvantages if you're more sharing and social than I am) to a manual is there are far fewer people that are capable of driving your car. I remember many times when I had my 350Z that someone would start to hint at wanting to take it for a spin... only to look inside and say "oh, it's a manual..." and then immediately stop.

Saved me the trouble of saying "NO, you can't."

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Yes, it's unfortunate that even if there was a manual version eventually that it wouldn't be a good manual. In the prior mention of the GT4... that is kind of my benchmark comparison. I find both transmission options to be "desirable" for different reasons in the case of Porsche. While there is no performance-related reason to opt for the manual... it is equally enjoyable to drive in that case.

One of the advantages (or disadvantages if you're more sharing and social than I am) to a manual is there are far fewer people that are capable of driving your car. I remember many times when I had my 350Z that someone would start to hint at wanting to take it for a spin... only to look inside and say "oh, it's a manual..." and then immediately stop.

Saved me the trouble of saying "NO, you can't."

Yeah my wife loves driving the Supra. And she's a good driver so I don't mind.
The theory/rumor is that they made the GT4 manual gearing really tall so it doesn't rival the 911. If true, that would bother me. Knowing you bought a $100-130k car (with options) and they intentionally made it slower so it doesn't beat it's big brother.
I'd go for the PDK version regardless, because the ZF8 is good, but PDK is incredible. In the end it all depends on what you prefer. For me, if I spend money you could buy a small house for, I want a car to be as good and as capable as it can be.

 

[Throttle monkey]

Yeah my wife loves driving the Supra. And she's a good driver so I don't mind.
The theory/rumor is that they made the GT4 manual gearing really tall so it doesn't rival the 911. If true, that would bother me. Knowing you bought a $100-130k car (with options) and they intentionally made it slower so it doesn't beat it's big brother.
I'd go for the PDK version regardless, because the ZF8 is good, but PDK is incredible. In the end it all depends on what you prefer. For me, if I spend money you could buy a small house for, I want a car to be as good and as capable as it can be.

The taller gearing is to help push it through euro emission standards.

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