2022 Model Year Toyota GR Supra

Multiple Choice: What changes are you expecting or would like to see for 2022?


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nibble

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Erm... that’s not possible since in a vehicle with an automatic that has paddle shifters there is almost nothing complicated about flicking one paddle or the other to upshift or downshift with the ECU doing the rest of the work. Anyone can drive and operate the transmission of a paddle shift car with zero practice. That’s part of why they are appealing today for many.

Not the same case with a manual transmission vehicle where you have to learn how to coordinate the right input and balance of throttle and clutch pedal lift as well as choosing the right gear for the right level of engine speed once the clutch pressure plate begins pressing the disc to the flywheel.

I get it that clutch operation and manuals aren’t for everyone but really anyone can drive a paddle shift automatic vehicle. The rest is just practice to know how to best drive the car in general.... regardless of what transmission it has.
Come to NASA NE trackday event and show me you can do it properly using paddle shift around track. Even the most experienced manual transmission drivers had hard time if they haven't had practices before.
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nibble

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I will agree with you, coming from a 6 speed manual, i didn't time the paddle shifts right and etc. I feel like manual is so much easier IMO...
I agree with you as well. using paddle shift properly around the track is not given to you right away. It needs a lot of practice. Plus, I don't enjoy driving 6 spd on street and through traffic. manuals and paddle shift really shines when driven in track. Also, I've seen many manual gear drivers thinks they know how to drive manual shift car.. - including me still refining after 30+ years. most of them drive like riding horses. Once, Andy Lally drove my S2000 and I realized I had long way to go..
 

KahnBB6

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Come to NASA NE trackday event and show me you can do it properly using paddle shift around track. Even the most experienced manual transmission drivers had hard time if they haven't had practices before.
I didn’t say that driving a car ON A RACETRACK doesn’t require practice, training and experience to develop good technique which includes exactly when to shift for the best lap times and maneuvering around other drivers.

I said it doesn’t require any special training for anyone to get the basics of manually selecting gears with paddle shifters compared to operating a traditional manual transmission with a clutch pedal.

On a racetrack BOTH a traditional manual transmission car and paddle shift automatic/DCT require plenty of developed driver skill and experience to get the best out of the vehicle and achieve the best time to beat out the competition. This is why modern paddle-automatics and DCTs have replaced most traditional manuals for competition purposes in modern purpose built race cars.

A sequential gearbox with its clutch pedal just to start off from a standstill also has a learning curve to become proficient and get the vehicle around the track as fast as possible.

But we’re talking about a street sportscar in the showroom stock MKV Supra that most (though not all) will drive primarily on the street. In it there is currently no clutch pedal to feather and balance with accelerator input and there is currently no traditional manual shifter lever to physically shift the internal shift forks with.

You turn the engine on, electronically select Drive or manual mode and you press the accelerator to move forward. This is much simpler for anyone with a driver’s license to operate than a car with a traditional three-pedal manual transmission setup.

On the street a traditional manual transmission car requires more learned skill to operate in even a basic way than any automatic car requires of the driver. If this were not the case then Sienna minivans and all SUVs and crossovers would be sold primarily with manual transmissions.

You’re bringing this into the subject of track driving and that is a whole other skill and experience set for the driver/participant to learn and master to perform at their best no matter what transmission the track car has installed.

I think it’s silly that there is such a bias against a two seater iconic sports car (an unnecessary, totally whimsical and irrational purchase at that) that has until now always had a traditional manual transmission option actually getting that *as an option* for those who want it. The MKV’s automatic has already proven its effectiveness and broad appeal. It’s just not what someone who likes a manual transmission wants. Both versions of the MKV (if a manual version ever comes out) can exist and make the ZF8 fans and manual fans happy.

It’s a great chassis and it’s testament to that when many different variants can come of it for the street and track that all excel in their various roles.

It’s just a transmission choice, if ever offered. There are and will continue to be plenty of ZF8 automatic MKVs available.
 
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Dannyvandelft

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I didn’t say that driving a car ON A RACETRACK doesn’t require practice, training and experience to develop good technique which includes exactly when to shift for the best lap times and maneuvering around other drivers.

I said it doesn’t require any special training for anyone to get the basics of manually selecting gears with paddle shifters compared to operating a traditional manual transmission with a clutch pedal.

On a racetrack BOTH a traditional manual transmission car and paddle shift automatic/DCT require plenty of developed driver skill and experience to get the best out of the vehicle and achieve the best time to beat out the competition. This is why modern paddle-automatics and DCTs have replaced most traditional manuals for competition purposes in modern purpose built race cars.

A sequential gearbox with its clutch pedal just to start off from a standstill also has a learning curve to become proficient and get the vehicle around the track as fast as possible.

But we’re talking about a street sportscar in the showroom stock MKV Supra that most (though not all) will drive primarily on the street. In it there is currently no clutch pedal to feather and balance with accelerator input and there is currently no traditional manual shifter lever to physically shift the internal shift forks with.

You turn the engine on, electronically select Drive or manual mode and you press the accelerator to move forward. This is much simpler for anyone with a driver’s license to operate than a car with a traditional three-pedal manual transmission setup.

On the street a traditional manual transmission car requires more learned skill to operate in even a basic way than any automatic car requires of the driver. If this were not the case then Sienna minivans and all SUVs and crossovers would be sold primarily with manual transmissions.

You’re bringing this into the subject of track driving and that is a whole other skill and experience set for the driver/participant to learn and master to perform at their best no matter what transmission the track car has installed.

I think it’s silly that there is such a bias against a two seater iconic sports car (an unnecessary, totally whimsical and irrational purchase at that) that has until now always had a traditional manual transmission option actually getting that *as an option* for those who want it. The MKV’s automatic has already proven its effectiveness and broad appeal. It’s just not what someone who likes a manual transmission wants. Both versions of the MKV (if a manual version ever comes out) can exist and make the ZF8 fans and manual fans happy.

It’s a great chassis and it’s testament to that when many different variants can come of it for the street and track that all excel in their various roles.

It’s just a transmission choice, if ever offered. There are and will continue to be plenty of ZF8 automatic MKVs available.
Minivans and SUV's and the like, have autos because their drivers don't want to shift. They use their vehicle to haul kids and groceries from point A to point B. It's a necessity. And they don't want to do anything more than they have to in order to get to point B.
Sports cars, virtually all super and hyper cars, have autos/DCT now, because their performance is just better. A manual can't keep up. Sportscar manufacturers aren't in the business of making slower cars than the competition, so that's why all their flagship or halo cars, are auto/DCT only. Nissan GT-R, Porsche GT2 RS, every Ferrari, Lamborghini and McLaren, and so on and so forth. Manuals are obsolete. Like drum brakes. People that have to have a manual have plenty to choose from. A Cayman, an STI, a Civic Type R, GR-86, the new Z, if you have the cash, certain 911's, mainly the slow ones, so plenty of choice.
 

KahnBB6

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Minivans and SUV's and the like, have autos because their drivers don't want to shift. They use their vehicle to haul kids and groceries from point A to point B. It's a necessity. And they don't want to do anything more than they have to in order to get to point B.
Sports cars, virtually all super and hyper cars, have autos/DCT now, because their performance is just better. A manual can't keep up. Sportscar manufacturers aren't in the business of making slower cars than the competition, so that's why all their flagship or halo cars, are auto/DCT only. Nissan GT-R, Porsche GT2 RS, every Ferrari, Lamborghini and McLaren, and so on and so forth. Manuals are obsolete. Like drum brakes. People that have to have a manual have plenty to choose from. A Cayman, an STI, a Civic Type R, GR-86, the new Z, if you have the cash, certain 911's, mainly the slow ones, so plenty of choice.
In general every year less people want to shift gears themselves in sports cars if annual sales figures of auto vs manual versions of the same sportscar, hot hatch and other enthusiast models are any indication. It’s an overall trend that encompasses sportscars. It just took fewer decades for automatics to become the only transmission available in non enthusiast vehicles.

I’ve said this before: the point of a manual transmission in any modern sporty car, sportscar, hot hatch, sport sedan or muscle car isn’t to “keep up” with the modern automatics and DCTs. It’s to have fun with it. Though the number of buyers who want that kind of fun dwindle each year and though emissions, fuel economy regulations and active safety features are going to kill off the few manuals still on offer in a few years some people still want them.

There are plenty of great choices among those models you mentioned. One of those “slower” 911’s with a manual transmission sounds very appealing and fun. But then again the fun factor is more important to me than the 0-60 time being slower than the one in a PDK model.

To each their own. We all like what we like. Manual offerings will be regulated out of existence before all the interested parties for them dries up. Otherwise the models you mentioned above wouldn’t be on sale today.

I see nothing wrong with the MKV Supra getting a manual transmission option for those who want it. It’s existence would take nothing away from the current 3.0 and 2.0 ZF8 models or from the GRMN edition coming later.
 

digicidal

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Agreed. One of the biggest advantages (for me personally at least) with a manual gearbox is actually the opposite of "performance minded" ultimately. I find that with a manual I crave more power far less, because the engagement is so high.

With an automatic I find I'm constantly thinking/wishing there was a little bit "more" on tap - whether it was the RC-F or the MKV. On the other hand, I only very rarely had those thoughts driving the BRZ, Miata, or even my 350Z, CRX, and RSX in years past.

It pays dividends on the track to have the fastest automatic in most cases... but in an even slightly under-powered car... having three pedals makes so many things easier to forgive. ;)
 

Dannyvandelft

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I've rowed 13 speed transmissions for most of my career, raced many manual cars on tracks and autocross, the whole "engagement" thing is a bunch of bullshit. There's no difference between pulling a lever back, to pulling a paddle, (except that it's slower) and you can even use the center stick still. So all you're talking about, is pushing a third pedal in and out during shifts. Omg how engaging :oops:
And most of us don't even use the clutch once we're moving, we float the gears. So there's not even that.
 

turbopk

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Those hypercars are in a completely different league and price compared to a Supra. Or a Corvette C8, BMW M2, Cayman GT4, any 911, R35 GTR, etc.

Powerful manual sportscars aren’t about the fastest 0-60 but rather maximum driver engagement. The fastest cars in the world are extremely impressive and fun but there’s something still to be said for the fun of driving a manual sportscar with 400hp or more at the crank for those who like it.

Then again the non-race version of Gordon Murray’s multi-million dollar T.50 supercar with a 600hp+ V12 comes with a bespoke 6-speed manual :D

Manual transmissions don’t have many years left before they’re regulated out of new production. Until that day however it’s great to see some special cars still offering them.
The most fun cars to drive have always been true MT, well and sequential. One of my all time favorite cars was my Evo not super fast, just bolt ons and tuned, but a blast to drive!
I drove an R32 Skyline with a 6spd sequential which was pretty freaking awesome as well even though its just shift up shift down, no H patten
 

turbopk

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My next car will most likely be a Cayman GT4, and when I spec it, it will 100% have a PDK. Because I have no interest in buying an amazing performance car, and making it worse by making it slower.
I have a buddy who just put down a deposit on one. Can't wait to check it out.
 

turbopk

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Back in 2008 I had a buddy with a 911 Turbo modded. Well one night we went out, he drank too much so he let me drive us home. Oh man that car was a blast to drive!

To this day I still want one!

P.S. I named my daughter Porshea!
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