AutoBlog interviews Toyota's product manager Ben Haushalter

[Captain_Kirk]

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/01/15/2020-toyota-supra-striking-a-balance-on-power-and-weight/

2020 Toyota Supra: striking a balance on power and weight

Product manager tells us how 4mm was crucial to perfect 50:50 distribution

After Toyota unveiled its long-awaited 2020 Supra at the 2019 Detroit Auto Show, we made our way onstage to take a closer look and ask a couple of questions about the car. First and foremost, we had hoped to figure out how the Supra, though with less power than the BMW Z4 from which it borrows its engine, managed a faster stated 0-60 time than the Bimmer. We found Ben Haushalter, Toyota's senior manager of product planning, who was willing to yield to our inquiries — even if, in the meantime, BMW adjusted its own 0-60 time for the 3.0-liter Z4, to be quicker (on paper at least) than the Supra, making our original question somewhat moot.

The first thing we asked was why the Supra was down on power from the Z4.

Ben Haushalter: So when we developed the car, we weren't necessarily putting both vehicles together, from a development standpoint. We developed the [Supra] from a holistic perspective, so that the engine is balanced to the chassis, and vice versa. We feel right now that the 335 [horsepower] and 365 pound-feet of torque is quite good for what the car is from a power-to-weight ratio, from 0-60 acceleration standpoint. It's very balanced. It's a sports car methodology that we share with 86. The engine and chassis are in harmony with each other, and that development methodology is shared by the same Chief Engineer [Tetsuya Tada] between both cars.

John Beltz Snyder: Was it purposefully detuned to fit better with the —

BH: To fit better. It's not purposefully detuned. 335 is kind of the sweet spot right now with how the car handles.

JBS: Is it geared differently than the BMW, too?

BH: No it's — we don't know the details on BMW's final gearing, so I can't comment on that.

JBS: Can you tell me a little more about the gearbox that's in this car?

BH: It's a ZF eight-speed automatic, 8HP, that's common throughout the industry.

JBS: What did you do to save weight in this car?

BH: There's a lot of technology involved in weight savings. A lot of aluminum. The hood, front doors, both the inner and outer structure are aluminum. The whole front suspension is built out of aluminum, the control arms, the knuckle. The engine cradle is aluminum as well as a large cross-body shear panel on the front of the car is all aluminum. The rear hatch on the back of the car is actually a composite — polypropylene and glass fiber material. Numerous body braces around the car are all aluminum as well.

JBS: Is there anything else about the car's development — like, I know you strove for a 50:50 weight balance.

BH: Yep. Achieved that.

JBS: How did you get there?

BH: The engine placement in the car, there's a little bit of a story there. In the original packaging layout, the engine was about four millimeters further forward than it is now, and we weren't hitting that perfect 50:50 weight distribution. So late in the development of the program, we actually moved the engine back to get to that 50:50 split that was really important from a handling and balance standpoint. As well as in the choice of the materials for the suspension. So the front is all aluminum, for light weight, and the rear actually has more steel in it to balance out the mass throughout the car.

JBS: What's next for the Supra, is there [both laughing] — I know you can't talk about —

BH: Future product, we can't comment on — standard comment — but rest assured, lifecycle management will be a big part of this vehicle program.

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[Nurburgring]

"Lifecycle management" is not really Toyota`s core strength. They design very well and sell forever with minimal variations. It`s good to see they realize it needs to be different for the Supra.

 

[HKz]

shares methodology with 86...yet no manual

a lot of weight savings tech and low CoG....yet nearly 700 lbs heavier than an 86

50/50 weight distribution who cares..hope y'all know that is only achieved when the car is sitting still...



yay for marketing

 

[sedanlova]

shares methodology with 86...yet no manual

a lot of weight savings tech and low CoG....yet nearly 700 lbs heavier than an 86

50/50 weight distribution who cares..hope y'all know that is only achieved when the car is sitting still...



yay for marketing

My R33 GTR is heavy at 3300 pounds but more fun to drive than my friend's BRZ. Is not only about the weight...is mostly about the ratio weight/power.

 

[SupraFiend]

"...to get to that 50:50 split that was really important from a handling and balance standpoint. As well as in the choice of the materials for the suspension.So the front is all aluminum, for light weight, and the rear actually has more steel in it to balance out the mass throughout the car."

You heard it hear, he's admitting they added 2 giant subs to the rear to get that last percentage point lol

 

[kona61]

"...to get to that 50:50 split that was really important from a handling and balance standpoint. As well as in the choice of the materials for the suspension.So the front is all aluminum, for light weight, and the rear actually has more steel in it to balance out the mass throughout the car."

You heard it hear, he's admitting they added 2 giant subs to the rear to get that last percentage point lol

Atleast I can drown out all the idiots saying Zupr4.

 

[vb22]

Another interview with a VP. Starts at 7:04.

 

[Guff]

shares methodology with 86...yet no manual

a lot of weight savings tech and low CoG....yet nearly 700 lbs heavier than an 86

50/50 weight distribution who cares..hope y'all know that is only achieved when the car is sitting still...



yay for marketing

Not defending the lack of manual or weight but I did want to mention, this chassis is going to absolutely crush the 86 in terms of rigidity. Just looking at it up close, there are so many extra braces and supports built into the unibody. Plus when you pop the trunk, there's miles of sheetmetal in the rear section creating a really solid structure. Also, I don't think anyone has pointed this out, but right behind the roof, under the trunk lid (which is composite btw) there's a large horizontal brace welded in from the left side to the right that's also connected to the roof. I've honestly never seen a manufacturer do this much chassis strengthening outside of actual racing, it's really impressive once you start looking at the details.

Anyways, the end result is a car that apparently weighs 3397 in US 6-cyl spec, but weighs 3110 in base 4-cyl spec in Japan. I think these things are going to absolutely dominate in racing because it seems like there's a lot of dead weight that can be removed, and 3100lbs with a chassis this stiff is absolutely insane.

 

[mas921]

I did notice the bar, hopefully its angle is good enough for HANS.

About the weight, I still think the 3397lb figure is bit misleading, Toyota claims that's the total weight. Total as in... the usual "car with 95%, of accessories and 75kg driver" or is it DIN?

Even if it is 3400lb DIN; seats, subs..lol, wheels, tomei catback and bam! 200lbs gone.

One little nice observation about composite trunk, while I hoped the lid wouldve been a good place to lose weight (like the 350z's 75lb lid), its great that even with a light composite lid the weight distribution is still 50/50.

 

[MA617M]

What standard does the US use for measuring mass?

I noticed a massive disparity between Au kerb weight (Which is true dry weight, minimal fluids) for cars like the M2 and M4 (1488kg and 1499kg respectively)

So if we ever get some Au specs, we might be able to discern the mass

 

[A70TTR]

I think 3397lbs is fully loaded US spec, including the safety reinforcements in the bumper and doors, TSS, etc. the point of what metric is a good one however...

GR had slides in EU and JP showing 1490kg for the I6

 

[Turbro]

I think 3397lbs is fully loaded US spec, including the safety reinforcements in the bumper and doors, TSS, etc. the point of what metric is a good one however...

GR had slides in EU and JP showing 1490kg for the I6

Not only is the USA model heavier, we are all fatter people too lol, our supra s will be SO SLOW...

 

[A70TTR]

LOL - come to JP; it will slim you down. I lost so much weight between here and EU.

most of it has entirely to do with transportation and how everyone else eats and stays active... totally different than how it is back in the US, granted I miss a ton of things too but anyhow.

 

[Turbro]

LOL - come to JP; it will slim you down. I lost so much weight between here and EU.

most of it has entirely to do with transportation and how everyone else eats and stays active... totally different than how it is back in the US, granted I miss a ton of things too but anyhow.

So funny you say that, I was in korea and then japan for over 3 weeks and lots 12 lbs without even working out. It was the better/healthier food and the walking everywhere. Felt Amazing and fell in love with the areas. Cant wait to go back

 

[mas921]

So true! Last time ive been to japan i also lost like 6kg in 2 weeks from all the fricken walking lol. Like 20k steps per day easy.

What standard does the US use for measuring mass?

I noticed a massive disparity between Au kerb weight (Which is true dry weight, minimal fluids) for cars like the M2 and M4 (1488kg and 1499kg respectively)

So if we ever get some Au specs, we might be able to discern the mass

In US: Car & Driver instrumentes tests , they weigh the test cars themselves with a full tank and no driver, as provided by maker (they even provide corner weights).

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