Botti Tunes Safety/Reliability vs. Others?

[B58_ hwAyaq]

Got gapped by a DP+E50 Botti tuned Supra (didn’t know it was a Botti car at the time…).

Genuinely curious - are there any objective reasons not to go with a Botti tune from an engine safety/reliability standpoint?

Something has always made me feel wary given how much faster they seem to be mod-for-mod than other cars, but I haven’t seen any objective data.

I know - “go with the tuner you trust, blah blah,” but has there been any data points in the community showing that Botti tunes (for the general cars, not the record breaking cars) are objectively less safe than other known tuners?

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[SD_MK]

Let's not start this. Too deep to go into details. I'd say just PM someone who's Botti tuned.. usually from my experience, tuner debates don't go well... at all actually...

 

[Jesse DaBears]

Got gapped by a DP+E50 Botti tuned Supra (didn’t know it was a Botti car at the time…).

Genuinely curious - are there any objective reasons not to go with a Botti tune from an engine safety/reliability standpoint?

Something has always made me feel wary given how much faster they seem to be mod-for-mod than other cars, but I haven’t seen any objective data.

I know - “go with the tuner you trust, blah blah,” but has there been any data points in the community showing that Botti tunes (for the general cars, not the record breaking cars) are objectively less safe than other known tuners?

What's your setup? A basic bolt on cars will all generally be around the same power. Botti makes fast cars 100%, but so does Payn, Visconti, Twisted, Marin etc. Lol

 

[Sereph102889]

Got gapped by a DP+E50 Botti tuned Supra (didn’t know it was a Botti car at the time…).

Genuinely curious - are there any objective reasons not to go with a Botti tune from an engine safety/reliability standpoint?

Something has always made me feel wary given how much faster they seem to be mod-for-mod than other cars, but I haven’t seen any objective data.

I know - “go with the tuner you trust, blah blah,” but has there been any data points in the community showing that Botti tunes (for the general cars, not the record breaking cars) are objectively less safe than other known tuners?

What is your setup and who/what are you tuned on? Custom or OTS? Custom makes a huge difference. For me, when I swapped from MHD OTS E50 to Custom E40, I dropped my average 60-130 by over half a second. Lots of other factors obviously play a part as well.

 

[B58_ hwAyaq]

Let's not start this. Too deep to go into details. I'd say just PM someone who's Botti tuned.. usually from my experience, tuner debates don't go well... at all actually...

Not meaning to start a debate, so thanks for the input for anyone else looking to contribute. Basically, I’m trying to see if the big tuners take up different places in the market.

For example:
Tuner A is known for the most aggressive tunes hands down (potentially at the risk of X or Y).
Tuner B offers solid tunes that are really reliable long term.
Tuner C has the best OTS tunes, but go elsewhere for custom.
Tuner D offers great pump maps but E maps are better elsewhere.
Etc. etc. with objective data points to back this up.

People have different goals and risk tolerances. I know that “asking the tuner” is a viable and recommended option, but by crowdsourcing some data, I feel we can save tuner and costumer time.

 

[SD_MK]

What's your setup? A basic bolt on cars will all generally be around the same power. Botti makes fast cars 100%, but so does Payn, Visconti, Twisted, Marin etc. Lol

I heard that Jesse guy makes fast cars too, you should hit him up. 1fastsupra.com, the website name doesn't lie.

 

[B58_ hwAyaq]

What's your setup? A basic bolt on cars will all generally be around the same power. Botti makes fast cars 100%, but so does Payn, Visconti, Twisted, Marin etc. Lol

What is your setup and who/what are you tuned on? Custom or OTS? Custom makes a huge difference.

I'm under no illusion that my DP+OTS 93 tune would hang with a Botti E50 tune (remember, I didn't know what this guy had...it was just a chance encounter). It was just the experience of seeing how great the difference is that got me thinking as I look towards the next steps in my build.

Also, FWIW, I have not seen many (any?) roll races of a Botti E50 car vs. Other Tuner E50 car. On other platforms, I typically see Tuner X stage 2 vs. Tuner Y stage 2 rolls/digs, etc. etc. where it's easier to see the differences in tuner priorities.

I heard that Jesse guy makes fast cars too, you should hit him up. 1fastsupra.com, the website name doesn't lie.

Assuming this conversation results in any objective data points, I think it's clear that Jesse takes the cake on custom JB4 tunes, for sure. I have not seen any other JB4 tuners with as many widespread, visible examples/reports (particularly backed by dragy/slips).

 

[zrk]

Botti E50

Is that every @Babayaga Supra race?

 

[B58_ hwAyaq]

Is that every @Babayaga Supra race?

I haven’t collected the details of every video, but it’s typically Botti E50 vs. another car OR Botti E50 vs. Botti E50. Again, not looking to start a tuner vs tuner debate. Just wanted to understand if certain tuners have different priorities and/or take different kinds of risks in the tunes they provide. Doesn’t mean good vs. bad - just different.

On other platforms, sometimes there’s consensus on where tuners fall on the aggression-reliability spectrum.

Happy to let the thread die if others don’t find value in attempting to make transparent where the Supra community’s tuners fall on that spectrum (if this is something we can even complete with the data available), but I figured I’d ask.

I’d rather three people report their knowledge/experiences than one person have to try three tuners to collect the same information.

 

[32bitsofGil]

I haven’t collected the details of every video, but it’s typically Botti E50 vs. another car OR Botti E50 vs. Botti E50. Again, not looking to start a tuner vs tuner debate. Just wanted to understand if certain tuners have different priorities and/or take different kinds of risks in the tunes they provide. Doesn’t mean good vs. bad - just different.

On other platforms, sometimes there’s consensus on where tuners fall on the aggression-reliability spectrum.

Happy to let the thread die if others don’t find value in attempting to make transparent where the Supra community’s tuners fall on that spectrum (if this is something we can even complete with the data available), but I figured I’d ask.

I’d rather three people report their knowledge/experiences than one person have to try three tuners to collect the same information.

From what I've seen all of these main guys (Payn, Visconti, Twisted, Marin) are making big power on their custom tunes. It's not really the level of power that is differentiating, but rather the drive-ability of the tunes on the street. Dyno numbers are one thing, daily driving the car can be a different ask and different drivers will have different asks of their car.

Personally I have seen great custom tunes from Jeff Payn. He easily hits the big numbers, and those cars drive very smooth all the way in between WOT. Lots of dudes in the CTX area are tuned by him.

 

[Sereph102889]

I'm under no illusion that my DP+OTS 93 tune would hang with a Botti E50 tune (remember, I didn't know what this guy had...it was just a chance encounter). It was just the experience of seeing how great the difference is that got me thinking as I look towards the next steps in my build.

Also, FWIW, I have not seen many (any?) roll races of a Botti E50 car vs. Other Tuner E50 car. On other platforms, I typically see Tuner X stage 2 vs. Tuner Y stage 2 rolls/digs, etc. etc. where it's easier to see the differences in tuner priorities.



Assuming this conversation results in any objective data points, I think it's clear that Jesse takes the cake on custom JB4 tunes, for sure. I have not seen any other JB4 tuners with as many widespread, visible examples/reports (particularly backed by dragy/slips).

Yea the difference between a 93 octane OTS map and an E50 custom map is night and day. Like more than 2 to 3 second difference in a good 60-130, which is the most common roll race pretty much. So yea, that's a huge difference. Personally I haven't done any research and since I decided to go with MHD I didn't have the luxury of Botti tunes.

 

[Loco38SUP]

I think the biggest take away from this thread is OTS vs Custom tune.

A custom tune will unlock the extra power based on the variables in your location.

Don’t get me wrong OTS tunes run strong from the heavy hitter tuners mentioned on this forum.

Payn is one the top tuners in the Seattle area. I’ve seen plenty of his OTS tunes gap people.

-RJM

 

[B58_ hwAyaq]

Yea the difference between a 93 octane OTS map and an E50 custom map is night and day.

I think the biggest take away from this thread is OTS vs Custom tune.

I appreciate the input, but this is pretty well understood info (at least to me). I added the anecdote for a little context on what got me thinking about the reliability/aggression balance as people move through their tuning journey on this platform.

Some might want a more aggressive tune with less commitment to hardware while some might prefer to purchase more hardware with a more conservative tune for the same goals.

The question to be answered is "is Tuner A objectively riskier/more conversative/other-attribute-here than Tuners B, C, and D?"

A custom tune will unlock the extra power based on the variables in your location.
...
Payne is one the top tuners in the Seattle area. I’ve seen plenty of his OTS tunes gap people.

The same Botti E50 car beat a Payne E85 (w/ port injection, etc. etc.) car which continues to beg the question, "is it widely known that certain tuners push the limits of X or Y in their tunes compared to others?" Again, doing so is not inherently bad (like knowing that the xHP trans tune will improve trans performance at the expense of accelerated wear) - just curious if this is known info.

I'm looking for something similar to comparing tires. Tire X will grip but make noise and wear fast. Tire Y grips pretty well but will last 30k miles and cost an arm and a leg. Tire Z is the best balance for the dollar but won't set records. etc. etc.

Maybe I'm trying too hard to extract this info (but I appreciate everyone's input so far).

 

[Jackyl tm]

I appreciate the input, but this is pretty well understood info (at least to me). I added the anecdote for a little context on what got me thinking about the reliability/aggression balance as people move through their tuning journey on this platform.

Some might want a more aggressive tune with less commitment to hardware while some might prefer to purchase more hardware with a more conservative tune for the same goals.

The question to be answered is "is Tuner A objectively riskier/more conversative/other-attribute-here than Tuners B, C, and D?"



The same Botti E50 car beat a Payne E85 (w/ port injection, etc. etc.) car which continues to beg the question, "is it widely known that certain tuners push the limits of X or Y in their tunes compared to others?" Again, doing so is not inherently bad (like knowing that the xHP trans tune will improve trans performance at the expense of accelerated wear) - just curious if this is known info.

I'm looking for something similar to comparing tires. Tire X will grip but make noise and wear fast. Tire Y grips pretty well but will last 30k miles and cost an arm and a leg. Tire Z is the best balance for the dollar but won't set records. etc. etc.

Maybe I'm trying too hard to extract this info (but I appreciate everyone's input so far).

Fwiw, I've been wondering this as well. I completely understand what you are looking for. Wish I could provide some input, I'm just interested as you are. But, I do think best thing would be ask some people privately. I don't thibk anyone would openly say tuner A makes the most power but 2 years from now you'll need a rebuild, tuner B makes less power but consistently reliable etc.

You're not wanting a debate, but if someone did say tuner A isn't as reliable it's going to open the flood gates to such a debate.

 

[Loco38SUP]

Maybe I'm trying too hard to extract this info (but I appreciate everyone's input so far).

I think you’re trying to hard. Jeff Payn said it best during his last live session on Instagram.

“Let me know what your goal is and I will do my best to get you there. Whether its a setup good for only 10 passes on the drag strip or as a daily with the occasional roll race.”

Maybe that Botti tune guy that gapped you is 1 roll race away from a complete engine rebuild. And the Payn E85 guy is tuned more for reliability.

Really it just comes down to what you want to achieve with your tuner regardless of who you chose.

-RJM

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