Clutch Slipping on stock A91 MT...

[NitroYellowMKV]

Well, for anyone interested in my updates, so far pretty much the same, not any better not any worse; under the same condition, it will still slip, but if I just avoid doing that not really ever a problem. I rarely do full-throttle pulls from 1st, and now I just have more reason to avoid them. Definitely curious what jb+ would feel like, an extra 25-40 horsepower definitely would not hurt. Car i is at the dealer getting a bunch of warranty work for the speakers and rattles handled so after that I'll get back to hammering on it and seeing if any new issues pop up. So far right around 5500 miles. Just did 2nd oil change and it looked great. Trying out a 4th exhaust this week to try and find one that does not drone, the loss of 2 gears makes it so exhaust drone is super prevalent even with exhausts that do not drone on the auto. FI system looks promising with dual valves. Will have some sound clips up of that with the AA catted dp soon.

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[Spart]

Trying out a 4th exhaust this week to try and find one that does not drone, the loss of 2 gears makes it so exhaust drone is super prevalent even with exhausts that do not drone on the auto. FI system looks promising with dual valves. Will have some sound clips up of that with the AA catted dp soon.

....4th! Holy moly.

I installed an aFe Takeda a couple weeks back, and while there's some real minor drone with the valve open, valve closed it's dead silent.

I'm swapping the resonator for a delete pipe tomorrow and we'll see how that goes. I'm still on the factory DP and plan to stay that way though, which will have a huge affect on sound vs. what you're up against.

 

[NitroYellowMKV]

....4th! Holy moly.

I installed an aFe Takeda a couple weeks back, and while there's some real minor drone with the valve open, valve closed it's dead silent.

I'm swapping the resonator for a delete pipe tomorrow and we'll see how that goes. I'm still on the factory DP and plan to stay that way though, which will have a huge affect on sound vs. what you're up against.

Ya I am picky with sound and the downpipe definitely made it tricky, even tho it is catted and not nearly as huge of a sound difference as with Catless, but more and more I have been not liking the catless b58 sound, too much rasp. If the FI does not work, I am retrofitting the M performance optional muffler from the M340/440 along with a single mid pipe, I loved the way that muffler sounded on the m440 I am renting in Cali right now. Super nice deep growl, combined with the catted dp and no res on my car I bet that would sound super nice. I think the FI is with both valves vs 1 like the factory is gonna help a lot with the drone but hopefully, it is not too loud or tinny with the valves open as some videos give it a more high-pitched sound. It is also one of the few exhausts that still incorporates a resonator on the mid-pipe. I drove another b58 twin the other day, the facelift z4 m40i and wow, if that came with a manual I would sell the supra in a heart beat, way nicer interior, sounded AMAZING stock, lots of pops and bangs and great growl and top down is just the way to go.

 

[RenRed2]

I like the way in the video there's all those throw away lines like "with the power and torque we're making now the std clutch is obviously not good enough"' etc etc. You look at the std clutch on the bench and it looks perfect. What the std clutch slipped hard on the dyno or failed? If it had slipped hard on the dyno it'd show distinct signs on the bench. Also the attitude tthat anything stock is obviously not that good and needs to be replaced. The misinformation about dual mass flywheels is there. DMF are to isolate engine harmonic vibrations from the driveline and provide a more refined vehicle NVH wise. Nothing to do with driveline backlash. Some gearboxes will actually fail due to engine related harmonic vibrations under some driving conditions. I mean the upgraded product looks very nice quality but where's the evidence the std clutch isn't a competent unit even with a bit of a power and torque upgrade. Answer appears there isn't any. I have no doubt that if you go bananas then you'll need a more robust clutch but bagging out the original design as somehow inadequate and a suspect design seems an overreach to me. Lets face it it's an infomercial and should be viewed as such. I'd be happier if they just said the original clutch is just fine but if you want to make big torque it's safer to upgrade as long as you can live with the disadvantages. And there will be disadvantages.
I'm betting the review will be awesome upgrade and everything's better, as usual with these things.

Phil

Phil - he built the Supra. Toyota secretly turned over all development to him and his team, I read this at bus stop last night on Twitter. It was leaked on Instagram then posted on YouTube then further leaked exclusively on Twitter. The code to decode all this was at the one bus stop here in Germany. A 10% discount coupon was attached for the install

??

 

[FLtrackdays]

Well, for anyone interested in my updates, so far pretty much the same, not any better not any worse; under the same condition, it will still slip, but if I just avoid doing that not really ever a problem. I rarely do full-throttle pulls from 1st, and now I just have more reason to avoid them. Definitely curious what jb+ would feel like, an extra 25-40 horsepower definitely would not hurt. Car i is at the dealer getting a bunch of warranty work for the speakers and rattles handled so after that I'll get back to hammering on it and seeing if any new issues pop up. So far right around 5500 miles. Just did 2nd oil change and it looked great. Trying out a 4th exhaust this week to try and find one that does not drone, the loss of 2 gears makes it so exhaust drone is super prevalent even with exhausts that do not drone on the auto. FI system looks promising with dual valves. Will have some sound clips up of that with the AA catted dp soon.

Have you tried the AWE touring? Just curious. Since I’ve only heard raves from people with it. I’d love to keep my loud as thunder AWE track (for the track) and turn it down for in town ?.

Also, any chance of you to coming to Sebring Sept 30 or Oct 14/15 weekends? Will be there with a bunch of other Supra peeps.

 

[RenRed2]

Ya I am picky with sound and the downpipe definitely made it tricky, even tho it is catted and not nearly as huge of a sound difference as with Catless, but more and more I have been not liking the catless b58 sound, too much rasp. If the FI does not work, I am retrofitting the M performance optional muffler from the M340/440 along with a single mid pipe, I loved the way that muffler sounded on the m440 I am renting in Cali right now. Super nice deep growl, combined with the catted dp and no res on my car I bet that would sound super nice. I think the FI is with both valves vs 1 like the factory is gonna help a lot with the drone but hopefully, it is not too loud or tinny with the valves open as some videos give it a more high-pitched sound. It is also one of the few exhausts that still incorporates a resonator on the mid-pipe. I drove another b58 twin the other day, the facelift z4 m40i and wow, if that came with a manual I would sell the supra in a heart beat, way nicer interior, sounded AMAZING stock, lots of pops and bangs and great growl and top down is just the way to go.

Z4 is a very fun machine. We have this one from the dealer until the new M2 arrives. Im enjoying this for sure. This is an HEA loaded 260ps 4cyl. M brakes and suspension etc, as the Z4m40i. This is a Z4 M40i minus the 6cyl. Rides so firm/sporting and not as a luxury coupe at all. Total fun.

 

[NitroYellowMKV]

Have you tried the AWE touring? Just curious. Since I’ve only heard raves from people with it. I’d love to keep my loud as thunder AWE track (for the track) and turn it down for in town ?.

Also, any chance of you to coming to Sebring Sept 30 or Oct 14/15 weekends? Will be there with a bunch of other Supra peeps.

Ya I had it on my yellow car, love the sound but no valves and with my catless dp def still droned a lot lol

 

[Diablo]

I like the way in the video there's all those throw away lines like "with the power and torque we're making now the std clutch is obviously not good enough"' etc etc. You look at the std clutch on the bench and it looks perfect. What the std clutch slipped hard on the dyno or failed? If it had slipped hard on the dyno it'd show distinct signs on the bench. Also the attitude tthat anything stock is obviously not that good and needs to be replaced. The misinformation about dual mass flywheels is there. DMF are to isolate engine harmonic vibrations from the driveline and provide a more refined vehicle NVH wise. Nothing to do with driveline backlash. Some gearboxes will actually fail due to engine related harmonic vibrations under some driving conditions. I mean the upgraded product looks very nice quality but where's the evidence the std clutch isn't a competent unit even with a bit of a power and torque upgrade. Answer appears there isn't any. I have no doubt that if you go bananas then you'll need a more robust clutch but bagging out the original design as somehow inadequate and a suspect design seems an overreach to me. Lets face it it's an infomercial and should be viewed as such. I'd be happier if they just said the original clutch is just fine but if you want to make big torque it's safer to upgrade as long as you can live with the disadvantages. And there will be disadvantages.
I'm betting the review will be awesome upgrade and everything's better, as usual with these things.

Phil

Your points are appreciated. Are you considering that particular example is putting down 530 hp/600 tq at the wheel? It’s my understanding that that’s closing in on the point where the ZF8 gets unhappy as well.

 

[lucky phil]

Your points are appreciated. Are you considering that particular example is putting down 530 hp/600 tq at the wheel? It’s my understanding that that’s closing in on the point where the ZF8 gets unhappy as well.

Yes. My point is where's the line between an infomercial and the reality? When people start trashing the std stuff and technically quite wrongly in some cases my suspicions are raised. Don't get me wrong I love quality upgraded parts and the replacement clutch here looks very nice ( except they could have made a nice line cover to fill the hole the removing the std slave cylinder left) but there are always compromises and I've been dealing with all sorts of clutches my whole life. Some will hold quite significantly more torque than stock as long as your not launching the car all the time. So upgrade needed for the drag racers but not for the people that get the clutch fully engaged before WOT.
The amount of people that I've seen upgrade to a twin plate clutch and non Dual mass FW and 6 months later are replacing it with something stock or approaching the stock setup is amazing. They can't live with the NVH or Idle clatter or heavy pedal or all 3 because 95% of the cars life is as a DD. Just pointing out that there are downsides to these types of upgrades and unless you really need them best to consider the negatives and the fact the std clutch isn't rubbish as some try to make out to sell a product.
In the Focus RS world people are commonly upgrading the std turbo bypass valve. Why? because it's a Plastic housing diaphragm type and "they can't handle extra boost application". Thing is no one has ever seen one actually not handle the extra boost or fail. It's all about fitting a "billet" valve because it must be better. Wrong. The std valve gives no problems and is reliable for years and the top shelf alloy billet piston type is just money wasted. Add to that the billet valve requires removal, disassembly and greasing every 6 months (which is in the "fine" print of the instillation documents) Why would you replace a perfectly good bypass valve with an expensive aftermarket item that requires maintenance every 6 months? I could make the exact same point with upgraded engine mounts that end up failing in 12 months.
Just remember stock is cool.

Phil

 

[BMWAF]

My point is where's the line between an infomercial and the reality?

To counter the infomercial world we really have to apply some solid critical thinking skills.. which like common sense, seem to be sorely lacking.

..because 95% of the cars life is as a DD.

Exactly this. Because of the enthusiast nature of this board, this is largely ignored here. A lot of people on this board seem to think tracking a Supra is its 95% purpose, which considering its a road car first and foremost, it clearly isn't.. no matter what the Toyota infomercials tell us.

 

[RenRed2]

Yes. My point is where's the line between an infomercial and the reality? When people start trashing the std stuff and technically quite wrongly in some cases my suspicions are raised. Don't get me wrong I love quality upgraded parts and the replacement clutch here looks very nice ( except they could have made a nice line cover to fill the hole the removing the std slave cylinder left) but there are always compromises and I've been dealing with all sorts of clutches my whole life. Some will hold quite significantly more torque than stock as long as your not launching the car all the time. So upgrade needed for the drag racers but not for the people that get the clutch fully engaged before WOT.
The amount of people that I've seen upgrade to a twin plate clutch and non Dual mass FW and 6 months later are replacing it with something stock or approaching the stock setup is amazing. They can't live with the NVH or Idle clatter or heavy pedal or all 3 because 95% of the cars life is as a DD. Just pointing out that there are downsides to these types of upgrades and unless you really need them best to consider the negatives and the fact the std clutch isn't rubbish as some try to make out to sell a product.
In the Focus RS world people are commonly upgrading the std turbo bypass valve. Why? because it's a Plastic housing diaphragm type and "they can't handle extra boost application". Thing is no one has ever seen one actually not handle the extra boost or fail. It's all about fitting a "billet" valve because it must be better. Wrong. The std valve gives no problems and is reliable for years and the top shelf alloy billet piston type is just money wasted. Add to that the billet valve requires removal, disassembly and greasing every 6 months (which is in the "fine" print of the instillation documents) Why would you replace a perfectly good bypass valve with an expensive aftermarket item that requires maintenance every 6 months? I could make the exact same point with upgraded engine mounts that end up failing in 12 months.
Just remember stock is cool.

Phil

+1 - the amount of research and engineering is so overlooked by the YouTube faux informercial experts its now just pathetic. Most cant handle the car stock to begin with. But Yo - I heard on YouTube.......................

 

[FLtrackdays]

Z4 is a very fun machine. We have this one from the dealer until the new M2 arrives. Im enjoying this for sure. This is an HEA loaded 260ps 4cyl. M brakes and suspension etc, as the Z4m40i. This is a Z4 M40i minus the 6cyl. Rides so firm/sporting and not as a luxury coupe at all. Total fun.

That car looks fantastic ? Do they even make that in the USA ??? I’ve never seen one like it ? You’ve got it so rough dude, lol. Over here they’d ask for more than sticker and you’d be hoofin it?‍until the car arrives….

Yes. My point is where's the line between an infomercial and the reality? When people start trashing the std stuff and technically quite wrongly in some cases my suspicions are raised.
Just remember stock is cool.

Totally agree! Once you start tinkering, you better be ready to fine tune. And agree with @lmfao , most peeps are not going to track or build a 1000hp drag car. A non mod car is all you need to enjoy the crap out of her. Me and a few others on some threads have been tracking for 15+ years. So we’re talking extremes for sure, such as SPL parts. It’ll never be that soft touring car again when you go down that rabbit hole. I’m totally cool with that. Most would be appalled with the noise, harder ride, etc. So great points! People need to keep their own perspective with what they want to do with the car. Out of the box, she’s fantastic!

 

[Spart]

Ya I am picky with sound and the downpipe definitely made it tricky, even tho it is catted and not nearly as huge of a sound difference as with Catless, but more and more I have been not liking the catless b58 sound, too much rasp.

I don't like raspy turbo cars either.

I did the resonator delete yesterday (which was an actual five minute job once the car was on the lift thanks to V band clamps) and it got... slightly louder? Didn't seem to affect the character of the sound at all.

With the valve closed, there's still absolutely zero drone at any cruising RPM 2000-3000. And it's a reasonably marked difference in sound between valve open and valve closed (I have the fake sound coming through the speakers turned off.)

I think I'm happy with it now.

Perhaps the aFe Takeda might warrant a look for your needs.

 

[UYCR]

Well, for anyone interested in my updates, so far pretty much the same, not any better not any worse; under the same condition, it will still slip, but if I just avoid doing that not really ever a problem. I rarely do full-throttle pulls from 1st, and now I just have more reason to avoid them. Definitely curious what jb+ would feel like, an extra 25-40 horsepower definitely would not hurt. Car i is at the dealer getting a bunch of warranty work for the speakers and rattles handled so after that I'll get back to hammering on it and seeing if any new issues pop up. So far right around 5500 miles. Just did 2nd oil change and it looked great. Trying out a 4th exhaust this week to try and find one that does not drone, the loss of 2 gears makes it so exhaust drone is super prevalent even with exhausts that do not drone on the auto. FI system looks promising with dual valves. Will have some sound clips up of that with the AA catted dp soon.

Have you considered the leviathan turbo back? Shouldn't have drone if you install it with all the resonators/mufflers.

 

[NitroYellowMKV]

Have you considered the leviathan turbo back? Shouldn't have drone if you install it with all the resonators/mufflers.

I am excited to try the FI, it is already installed, just need to pick it up from the dealer today

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