Designing FT-1 inspired wing- Looking to see if there is demand as well as suggestions for improvement

[Bug2th]

Using this model to showcase the wing from now on. Its much cleaner than the scan data and its the model Ive been using for the testing.

So curious. There’s probably more physics to this that I’ve forgot about but I see most wings on brackets that are angled back. Doesn’t this create torque on the bolts and some opposing/ lost downward force? What if the brackets were angled forward in such a way so that all the force is now perpendicular to the rear of the car?

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[i3igpete]

Unless the wing flies off, the force is never "lost". But yes, your intuition is right that wing setback affects the load distribution applied to each bolt.

 

[TheMaker]

So curious. There’s probably more physics to this that I’ve forgot about but I see most wings on brackets that are angled back. Doesn’t this create torque on the bolts and some opposing/ lost downward force? What if the brackets were angled forward in such a way so that all the force is now perpendicular to the rear of the car?

Yeah you can do that, it’s just different ways of transferring the load.


The wing’s still making the same downforce regardless of the bracket angle, so you’re not really losing anything there. Unless you go swan neck, they tend to make a bit more df because that setup doesn’t disrupt the low pressure side of the wing. Downforce is way more about the wing’s angle to the airflow than how the brackets are positioned.

The angle of the riser mostly just changes how that force gets handled by the mounts. The bigger factor for torque is just how high the wing sits off the trunk, not just whether the brackets lean forward or back. Height and crazy angle, now you've got a lot of load. You’d also need significant flex before you’d ever see any real loss in effectiveness.

 

[TheMaker]

under trunk supports done (not 100% , still need to pocket them) 15mm thick. Even with the scan data and blue laser scanner, there was still a bit of mess in the mesh. I got my surfaces as close as possible and this is the result.

I should be ready or at least close to doing a full 1:1 scale print. The previous printable version ate filament like crazy... now that printing this isn't the goal, I can use less wall thickness and save a lot of filament but more importantly print time.

Hoping to get a test print soon..

 

[Bug2th]

So just thought of this. assuming this is going to be great functioning wing - how hard would it be to create a cover for the trunk mount if I were to take the wing off for more daily driving and not look like a poser all day? I got a friend that could do this too but just wondering.

 

[TheMaker]

So just thought of this. assuming this is going to be great functioning wing - how hard would it be to create a cover for the trunk mount if I were to take the wing off for more daily driving and not look like a poser all day? I got a friend that could do this too but just wondering.

To do it yourself? not too hard if you, or your friend have the CAD knowledge and can work with surfaces. I could make one if that's something people would like as well... like a blockoff plate with a gasket.
For just a simple block off plate you can even just run a 3d printed piece with some threaded inserts. If i do one I’ll probably just offer it as an STL for people to just download if they wanted to

 

[TheMaker]

Didn't go too crazy on the styling on the pockets for the trunk support, but they are pretty much done. Im just more excited to finally have them done as they were the missing puzzle piece.

 

[TheMaker]

I re-ran the same configuration (290mm chord, 3.5deg aoa base) at a much higher resolution — went from ~100k cells up to about 5.8 million.


The higher-res run actually gave more conservative results, which is what you’d expect as accuracy improves, but it still showed the same overall trend — the wing is producing a net downforce effect and counteracting baseline lift.


I’m not treating CFD as a source of absolute numbers, more as a development tool, but the higher-res run gives me a lot more confidence that the design is doing what it’s supposed to do.

 

[Strych9]

I re-ran the same configuration (290mm chord, 3.5deg aoa base) at a much higher resolution — went from ~100k cells up to about 5.8 million.


The higher-res run actually gave more conservative results, which is what you’d expect as accuracy improves, but it still showed the same overall trend — the wing is producing a net downforce effect and counteracting baseline lift.


I’m not treating CFD as a source of absolute numbers, more as a development tool, but the higher-res run gives me a lot more confidence that the design is doing what it’s supposed to do.

I distinctly remember one of the aero guys from an old team that I was on saying that CFD is great for when you want to predict the direction that a change is going to actually make, but it isn't so good for finding the true magnitude of that change. As long as your inputs are decent then I'd say you're probably going to be alright.

 

[TheMaker]

I distinctly remember one of the aero guys from an old team that I was on saying that CFD is great for when you want to predict the direction that a change is going to actually make, but it isn't so good for finding the true magnitude of that change. As long as your inputs are decent then I'd say you're probably going to be alright.

Yeah that’s essentially how I’ve been treating it. I used lower res tests when making bigger design changes, then refined both the wing and parameters after.

Now I’ve bumped the resolution up to get a more accurate (and usually more conservative) result.


Might not be perfect in terms of absolute numbers, but it’s been really useful for understanding how changes affect the airflow and directionally improving the design.

 

[TheMaker]

Playing around with new modular concepts while i have the mounts printing

 

[rottmore]

Looks more like a DRS concept to be honest

 

[TheMaker]

Looks more like a DRS concept to be honest

There would be like 2 or 3 supports once its 100%, i just didnt add those in yet. I really like the idea of dual elements but its hard to make it look good... it really draws attention ..idk if thats good or bad yet
Edit: if i were to make a drs flap it would blend right into curvature of the too side so it wouldnt be lifted until its flipped

 

[Strych9]

I could see doing DRS with the whole wing, but a DRS flap on a wing with that much curvature around the vertical axis?

That may actually be new territory entirely. If not, I'm sure that the only people that may have gone down that road with any sort of success would be some engineer that was on some F1 team over the years, some random composites engineer at somewhere like Pagani or Koenigsegg, or someone at Lockheed Martin special projects or NASA.

Not saying it can't be done, but I am saying that you'd have a hell of a list of problems to solve.

 

[TheMaker]

I could see doing DRS with the whole wing, but a DRS flap on a wing with that much curvature around the vertical axis?

That may actually be new territory entirely. If not, I'm sure that the only people that may have gone down that road with any sort of success would be some engineer that was on some F1 team over the years, some random composites engineer at somewhere like Pagani or Koenigsegg, or someone at Lockheed Martin special projects or NASA.

Not saying it can't be done, but I am saying that you'd have a hell of a list of problems to solve.

1 mistake I made was trying to fit a secondary element on that chord... main element needs to be brought down to like 210- 225mm, secondary 80-100mm.

I probably would not attempt a DRS type wing with this current wing deck profile... as much as I'd like to keep the curvature it would pose a huge challenge. That being said I have thought of ways around it, the design might just look better in mind than in reality... i dont know, I havent actually attempted the CAD... 1 fixed product is difficult enough for now.

The main goal is getting this wing from cad to real... after that, i can experiment a bit but a drs wing is out of my realm of knowledge at the moment.

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