Have a look at the Prototype Supra's engine

[Chikane]

I wonder if this is why it took them so long? How long dis it took for the subaru fa20 to be ready

Modal you know as well as we do bud, we read the same thing (I'm not trying to sound condescending or anything like that don't get me wrong) but let's talk about it. Remember they took 2 years just to get over design philosophies and language barriers we don't even know how many designs got scrapped.

With Subaru it was a Japanese and Japanese, that and don't forget Toyota had more say in the matter with Subaru back then (2008-2010) Toyota owned part of the Subaru company. Then Toyota only owned 8% of Subaru but Tada San already showed them the prototype using a torn out Legacy chassis with toyota rwd parts for most of the internals and then they agreed to work together. Afterward Toyota ownership became 16.5% it might not seem like a lot in percentage but look at it in monetary terms. Going from this recent expansion Toyota owning 8.7 % to 16.5% that was $311 million(31.1 billion yen) right after this purchase it was announced publicly that Subaru and Toyota will work together on a RWD sports car.

This during the time the parent company Fuji Heavy industry wasn't doing well (they're called Subaru now).

Now let's think about this, if I was Toyota I just paid you (Subaru) $31.1 billion, you're going to work on a car with me(because let's face it you need me) But to BMW who is like we don't need you but we think this idea is cool let's work together. But we all read the same stories over the years.

I understand why it takes a long time.It's a collaboration.

Sponsored

 

[EDub]

That's what I don't get....why would you want a less prestigious branded car that is the same as a prestigious brand car, that costs the same if not more than the prestigious brand car???? It's like someone saying, "I'll take the Toyota LandCruiser for $100K over the $100k Lexus LX570, because Toyota baby!" Makes no sense at all.

I'd definitely take the Landcruiser over the 570. For one it is better looking, secondly it doesn't have the super low bodywork.

I'd take the supra for one because I like Toyota and I don't want a convertible.

 

[A70TTR]

Yeah, prestige matters to plenty of folks to be sure, but plenty of other folks (thankfully) buy on personal preference/merits.

 

[Chikane]

I agree it’s not always the badge, but in the example above, the LandCruiser and LX570 are identical cars with the same aftermarket support....they are IDENTICAL cars, so your point is sort of moot. You would still buy the $100k LandCruiser over the $100k IDENTICAL (same exact capabilities and more, yet more prestigious named) Lexus LX570??

I think your still stuck in this limbo of thinking this new Supra is a Toyota....when it’s not. I used the example of a M2 because it’s a BMW with (probably) same hardware. So, to you just because it’s a BMW with a Toyota badge, costing the same as a BMW, that automatically makes the Supra a completely different car?? Bravo Toyota, you’ve discovered your target market.

Ok bud, but I think you're stuck on the cars being Identical, but they aren't...even if they are the same price they aren't identical. The LX570 is more luxurious than the Land cruiser, but the Land cruiser has it's own style and merits. If we're talking real number Land cruisers still cost alittle less than the LX570 anyways that's not the point.

also....what everyone has been trying to say is, it doesn't matter about the BMW parts or what not. Price or badge etc. It's the looks and how the car makes you feel. People might not want a convertible, they might hate kidney grills. They're probably different features or even warranty etc. at the end of the day it's my money and I spend it however I want. Just like you.
I mean how is this any different from people buying the 86 over the BRZ and vice versa.

Btw I found it interesting that if you used Toyota's compare a car tool. it actually shows some features that differentiates it from it's Lexus counter part.

Learned something new today

https://www.buyatoyota.com/home/compare/18-landcruiser-lexuslx.page

 

[Matador]

That's what I don't get....why would you want a less prestigious branded car that is the same as a prestigious brand car, that costs the same if not more than the prestigious brand car???? It's like someone saying, "I'll take the Toyota LandCruiser for $100K over the $100k Lexus LX570, because Toyota baby!" Makes no sense at all.

Because some people don't care about the badge?

I agree it’s not always the badge, but in the example above, the LandCruiser and LX570 are identical cars with the same aftermarket support....they are IDENTICAL cars, so your point is sort of moot. You would still buy the $100k LandCruiser over the $100k IDENTICAL (same exact capabilities and more, yet more prestigious named) Lexus LX570??

Extremely similar, not identical. LX has a hydraulic suspension and tows less than the cruiser.

Also, a lot of Cruiser buyers are extremely wealthy ppl who prefer to be low key. Just saying.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Because some people don't care about the badge?



Extremely similar, not identical. LX has a hydraulic suspension and tows less than the cruiser.

Also, a lot of Cruiser buyers are extremely wealthy ppl who prefer to be low key. Just saying.

It’s the same f**k’n car! If anything, the Lexus version shits twice on its little sibling. Btw, any “flare” the LX has can be taken off and put on a LandCruiser....same goes with the aftermarket. So all the “LC has better approach angle” BS can stop. It’s the same drivetrain, chassis, suspension (fully loaded LC), and the Lexus comes with more luxuries.

For those who don’t know, LandCruisers are only priced the way they are because they are imported in extremely limited quantities and generally in one trim. Unlike the rest of the word, where they are like Camry’s all over the streets. I know, because my dad owned three in various countries. Those who buy them here aren’t doing so to keep “low key.” Actually, quite the opposite, they buy them to show everyone “hey look, i got more money than brains....I bought a $100k Toyota because I can.”

To each his own, I don’t disagree with that....I guess I’m more of the “better get what I paid for” kind of buyer.

 

[Modal170]

Modal you know as well as we do bud, we read the same thing (I'm not trying to sound condescending or anything like that don't get me wrong) but let's talk about it. Remember they took 2 years just to get over design philosophies and language barriers we don't even know how many designs got scrapped.

With Subaru it was a Japanese and Japanese, that and don't forget Toyota had more say in the matter with Subaru back then (2008-2010) Toyota owned part of the Subaru company. Then Toyota only owned 8% of Subaru but Tada San already showed them the prototype using a torn out Legacy chassis with toyota rwd parts for most of the internals and then they agreed to work together. Afterward Toyota ownership became 16.5% it might not seem like a lot in percentage but look at it in monetary terms. Going from this recent expansion Toyota owning 8.7 % to 16.5% that was $311 million(31.1 billion yen) right after this purchase it was announced publicly that Subaru and Toyota will work together on a RWD sports car.

This during the time the parent company Fuji Heavy industry wasn't doing well (they're called Subaru now).

Now let's think about this, if I was Toyota I just paid you (Subaru) $31.1 billion, you're going to work on a car with me(because let's face it you need me) But to BMW who is like we don't need you but we think this idea is cool let's work together. But we all read the same stories over the years.

I understand why it takes a long time.It's a collaboration.

I was doing it as a frame of reference

We have two companies, jap and jap.

Now we have jap and german.

One just shared parts, the other appears to be working from complete scratch and thinking how long a development cycle would be if a new i6 engine was done by toyota?

It was poorly phrased but hope you get what I mean now to understand the long wait

 

[mnpunk]

This is probably the sleep talking (2 AM) but from a manufacturing perspective, could it be that the engine in the prototype was a CGI B58?

Don't LS blocks come in aluminum as well as iron? I always thought the costs for modifying tooling would be huge but by sticking to B58 architecture, maybe it's still cheaper than a whole new engine?

 

[EDub]

They're expensive because they're taxed heavily being built offshore, they are way over built (designed for a 25yr service life) and because they only come in one fully loaded trim.

The LC does have better approach angle and etc. The bumpers are 3-4 inches higher then the LX570. The forward part of the interior is completely different between the two. One is quite flashy vs the other one is quite reserved and people up here generally buy the LC because they want the capability of the 200 series without the flashyness.

Almost none of the flare from the LX570 can be removed and put onto an LC. The body panels are different so you can just install the tacky body kit, the dash is different. Seats are different, I guess those could be swapped however. But that's why one of them is 80k and the other is 95k.

Unfortunately for us in Canada they haven't sold the Landcruiser variant since the 60 series. The rich of Vancouver love LX570's.

 

[MA617M]

This is probably the sleep talking (2 AM) but from a manufacturing perspective, could it be that the engine in the prototype was a CGI B58?

Don't LS blocks come in aluminum as well as iron? I always thought the costs for modifying tooling would be huge but by sticking to B58 architecture, maybe it's still cheaper than a whole new engine?

absolutely, but A70 had received insider info that the iron block was not actually based on the B58 architechture, but something else.

But you are right - whatever the engine source, from both a vehicle systems integration perspective, or manufacturing perspective, it makes sense to have all accessories and ancillaries common, so just the engine block/head/intake/exhaust are swapped over.

This would certainly make sense if two versions of an inline six were offered - and save on costs and vehicle systems codification etc.

 

[Mike Myers]

I wonder if this is why it took them so long? How long dis it took for the subaru fa20 to be ready

Hopefully it takes so long cause they’re doing their best to not deliver green bananas to early adopters.

 

[tha7osavage]

I wasn’t aware that they were planning on showing the engine at Goodwood. Toyota had to have known that people would have recognized the motor right away as a B58. Asides from what A70 has told us, has Tada or anybody officially announced that the Supra would be based on the B58? Not saying A70 is wrong, but it seems that even he has been left in the dark when it comes to this new motor. It’ll truly be amazing if they can pull this off, and announce this new motor that’s so shrouded in secrecy. Seems unlikely, but it’d be one hell of a way to rejuvenate an already fatigued fan base who have been waiting YEARS for this car to come to fruition.

I don’t want to set my expectations too high, especially considering all the info A70 has given us, but who the hell knows what’ll happen.

Fingers crossed.

 

[boodjohn]

Extremely similar, not identical. LX has a hydraulic suspension and tows less than the cruiser.

Also, a lot of Cruiser buyers are extremely wealthy ppl who prefer to be low key. Just saying.

They are not "extremely similar." They are identical with a few different touches to sway their intended market to their group.

 

[GT-Four]

As far as I was told, the new engine is based on the B58 with the necessary changes made to it. I would assume the engine shown in this prototype is the new engine.

 

[BRZer86]

It’s the same f**k’n car! If anything, the Lexus version shits twice on its little sibling. Btw, any “flare” the LX has can be taken off and put on a LandCruiser....same goes with the aftermarket. So all the “LC has better approach angle” BS can stop. It’s the same drivetrain, chassis, suspension (fully loaded LC), and the Lexus comes with more luxuries.

For those who don’t know, LandCruisers are only priced the way they are because they are imported in extremely limited quantities and generally in one trim. Unlike the rest of the word, where they are like Camry’s all over the streets. I know, because my dad owned three in various countries. Those who buy them here aren’t doing so to keep “low key.” Actually, quite the opposite, they buy them to show everyone “hey look, i got more money than brains....I bought a $100k Toyota because I can.”

To each his own, I don’t disagree with that....I guess I’m more of the “better get what I paid for” kind of buyer.

Remember when the previous two generations of the Tahoe - Yukon - Escalade all had the same exact fenders, quarter panels, doors, and interior components? As much as they’re the same car, it never impacted their sales figures. Even the current generation has slightly less similarities, because GM knew the American consumer isn’t going to dictate a 15% premium for the varying headlight and grille.

At the end of the day, the badge plays, and it plays rigiuorusly in the USDMarket.

Sponsored