Height adjustable springs vs coilovers

[AndyK5]

In the supra world, for a track oriented car, how would stock suspension + height adjustable springs fare vs mid level (~$3k) coil overs? What does the coilover system bring to the table the stock suspension can't do (except spring perch clearance and narrow body). 275/35/18 tires on 10.5 wheels.


- Adjustability, probably two way at that price range
- Damper compliance...maybe less harsh even in hard setting, better contact patch on the ground?


When I ran a GR86 at buttonwillow I could pretty much guesstimate that a stock tire vs 200TW tire would be worth about 2-3 seconds. Can you guys make such guesstimate for coilover performance vs high rate spring stock suspension?

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[Meraki Autoworks]

You'd feel a huge difference between HAS and Coils. I've had people say HKS HAS are too soft. KW are great. We have them in stock and highly recommend coils esp if you're going to track.

-Josh

 

[decodeddiesel]

In the supra world, for a track oriented car, how would stock suspension + height adjustable springs fare vs mid level (~$3k) coil overs? What does the coilover system bring to the table the stock suspension can't do (except spring perch clearance and narrow body). 275/35/18 tires on 10.5 wheels.


- Adjustability, probably two way at that price range
- Damper compliance...maybe less harsh even in hard setting, better contact patch on the ground?


When I ran a GR86 at buttonwillow I could pretty much guesstimate that a stock tire vs 200TW tire would be worth about 2-3 seconds. Can you guys make such guesstimate for coilover performance vs high rate spring stock suspension?

I can say anecdotally that I am looking to see a 2-4 second improvement in lap times at Lime Rock Park next season (current PB high 1:04s). I am fairly comfortable in this assumption given the performance of similarly modified Supras on this track.

The coilovers will help me get the most out of my tires and improve confidence. Once I have coilovers on the car and I get familiar and comfortable with them I will change to a slightly grippier tire. I plan to stick with the Kuhmo V730s I have mounted on my track wheels and move to Nankang CR-S V2 once I burn through the V730s. At first though it's very likely I'll be slower until I relearn the dynamics of the vehicle on stiffer springs and better dampers.

Caveat Emptor/YMMV/anecdotal evidence/sample of one/I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night/etc.

 

[AndyK5]

I can say anecdotally that I am looking to see a 2-4 second improvement in lap times at Lime Rock Park next season (current PB high 1:04s) once I have coilovers on the car and change to a slightly grippier tire. Mainly because the coilovers will help me get the most out of my tires and improve confidence, not necessarily because of the improved damping alone. I plan to stick with the Kuhmo V730s I have mounted on my track wheels and moving to Nankang CR-S once I burn through the V730s. At first though it's very likely I'll be slower until I relearn the dynamics of the vehicle on stiffer springs and better dampers. I am fairly comfortable in this assumption given the performance of similarly modified Supras on this track.

Caveat Emptor/YMMV/anecdotal evidence/sample of one/I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night/etc.

Which set/size of wheels do you have? What coilovers are you considering?

 

[noogie]

i think you should approach this question differently. what don't you like about the current suspension? is it too soft, too much body roll, too much understeer/oversteer? all those contribute to the amount of confidence you have when driving the car at the limit. the cloesr you can drive the car to the limit, the faster your lap times will be.

 

[decodeddiesel]

Which set/size of wheels do you have? What coilovers are you considering?

I am running 18x10.7 Titan7s with 275-35R18 square Kuhmo V730s.

I am debating between custom Ohlins R&T and MCS 2WNR.

Mind you, I have 16x HDPEs in the car and 3x car control clinics (instruction on a wet skidpad and an AutoX mini-track). I have a really good idea of what I'm trying to accomplish by adding coilovers and camber plates.

 

[AndyK5]

i think you should approach this question differently. what don't you like about the current suspension? is it too soft, too much body roll, too much understeer/oversteer? all those contribute to the amount of confidence you have when driving the car at the limit. the cloesr you can drive the car to the limit, the faster your lap times will be.

I can't get my track wheels fit in my track car. I need an 18x11 275 square setup and weighing in options like HAS+camber plates+spacers or just coilovers+LCA.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I can't get my track wheels fit in my track car. I need an 18x11 275 square setup and weighing in options like HAS+camber plates+spacers or just coilovers+LCA.

If it helps

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/race-tracking-your-supra-information-exchange.16389/page-104

Coilvers and LCA work surprisingly well. Lots of options for a guy like me to play with. Mainly reliability running negative camber and brand support. Ohlins with SPL fit the bill for me. So far, really digging it.

 

[AndyK5]

If it helps

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/race-tracking-your-supra-information-exchange.16389/page-104

Coilvers and LCA work surprisingly well. Lots of options for a guy like me to play with. Mainly reliability running negative camber and brand support. Ohlins with SPL fit the bill for me. So far, really digging it.

I am trying to see if there is a way for me to not spend $4k but the more I talk to people and weigh my use case, the more I realize I need to go with LCA and coil overs. Apex support say that in some applications Ohlins needed a small spacer to fit which is why they don't list them as fits. What are your wheels and do you have spacers? I’d love to avoid them if possible as its one less thing to worry about every time I pull the wheel off.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I am trying to see if there is a way for me to not spend $4k but the more I talk to people and weigh my use case, the more I realize I need to go with LCA and coil overs. Apex support say that in some applications Ohlins needed a small spacer to fit which is why they don't list them as fits. What are your wheels and do you have spacers? I’d love to avoid them if possible as its one less thing to worry about every time I pull the wheel off.

I’m running OEM wheels off season in town and 275/35-18 (6 months in season) at the track. No problems. I did get spacers for a different issue. Don’t need them now but they are only 10mm and no need to toss them. Plus having that extra 10mm all around doesn’t hurt anything. With or without them, those big tires up front can rub on a full circle turn. Something you won’t be doing on a racetrack I hope, lol, but worth knowing for in town driving.

If going Jackie Ding style, you are an engineer, mechanic, want to tinker more or compete, those more adjustable coilovers are for you. The Ohlins are a no brainer for a guy like me that just wants to driving for fun ? As you can see, no right or wrong. It’s all about how much you want to spend and how much you want to mess with them. I saved money and I can adjust the “clicks” on my Ohlins, if/when I ever do that, lol. So I’m happy as a ? in ?

 

[AndyK5]

I’m running OEM wheels off season in town and 275/35-18 (6 months in season) at the track. No problems. I did get spacers for a different issue. Don’t need them now but they are only 10mm and no need to toss them. Plus having that extra 10mm all around doesn’t hurt anything.

That being said, I was in the same position as you. However I don’t want to compete this time. Slapped those Ohlins on (my mechanic did) and damn they feel better than I expected! I was asked in my FL BMW group to compete. It was a nice compliment, if I did want to grab a few trophies and some free pads/tires or discounts that usually go along with that.

But if you are going Jackie Ding style, you are an engineer, mechanic, want to tinker more or compete, those more adjustable coilovers are for you. The Ohlins are a no brainer for a guy like me that just wants to driving for fun ?

As you can see, no right or wrong. It’s all about how much you want to spend and how much you want to mess with them. I saved money and I can adjust the “clicks” on my Ohlins, if/when I ever do that, lol. So I’m happy as a ? in ?

I am an engineer and like to tinker.....but not with low speed, high speed compression and damping settings. I guess in a perfect world I would want someone to set them for me. I had all adjustable forks/shocks on my motocross and enduro bikes for years, played with the clickers for years, read as many articles as I could find trying learn ....if you feel this coming in to a corner than you need to twist this knob stuff.... I did not gain much from those settings as I did from having my forks/shock professionally revalved for my weight and use case by a suspension shop. In the end I just set them in the middle for everything or whatever factory booklets says for sport setting and go.

So I'd say quality of the suspension and its use specific valving was 90% of the improvement, I might have gotten 10% from the clickers but possibly did not notice.


I keep on reading the Ohlins thread https://www.supramkv.com/threads/ohlins-road-track.7527/ and there are bunch of competing posts there. Ohlins does not fit with aftermarket camber plates but it does if you do a mod. It does fit with oem top hats but does not play well with some specific sway bars/endlinks/LCA....it does clear some wheels but not all without a spacer... Like what am I supposed to do. Just order Ohlins, LCA, end links, wheels and keep trying to return them until I find a permutation that fits?

Edit: I have re read one more time, looks like options are
Ohlins + SPL LCA + proper clocking
Ohlins + Vorschlag + shorter springs + proper clocking
Ohlins + Milway + Milway adapter +proper clocking
Ohlins + Verus + Lathe tool custom adapter + proper clocking

 

[FLtrackdays]

Edit: I have re read one more time, looks like options are
Ohlins + SPL LCA + proper clocking
Ohlins + Vorschlag + shorter springs + proper clocking
Ohlins + Milway + Milway adapter +proper clocking
Ohlins + Verus + Lathe tool custom adapter + proper clocking

Yeah it’s a lot to sort through. Great summary above! I did the 1st option.

I could have kept the OEM setup with SPL goodies and sway bars. That would have been an optimal starting place had I not gotten lowering springs. Hindsight is 20/20. You might even want to try that. Start out really slow. This car is fast w/out a lot of modifications.

Tires, fluid, and ability to add camber would have been all I needed ?

 

[AndyK5]

Yeah it’s a lot to sort through. Great summary above! I did the 1st option.

I could have kept the OEM setup with SPL goodies and sway bars. That would have been an optimal starting place had I not gotten lowering springs. Hindsight is 20/20. You might even want to try that. Start out really slow. This car is fast w/out a lot of modifications.

Tires, fluid, and ability to add camber would have likely been all I needed ?

What size are your wheels? I don't think I can fit 10.5+ 18 inch rims without coilovers. If they did I would probably skip them for the time being.

I feel like my only option of tracking with stock suspension + camber is keeping the stock 19 inch stagered setup.....or waste money on 18/9.5-10 inch wheels for now and then try to flip them for 18/11's once the coilovers are inbound.

 

[FLtrackdays]

What size are your wheels? I don't think I can fit 10.5+ 18 inch rims without coilovers. If they did I would probably skip them for the time being.

I feel like my only option of tracking with stock suspension + camber is keeping the stock 19 inch stagered setup.....or waste money on 18/9.5-10 inch wheels for now and then try to flip them for 18/11's once the coilovers are inbound.

You’ll save money in the long run with 275/35-18s (or 275/40). So many tires choices available = lower pricing for the same tire in other sizes. Also you can rotate them. You are smart enough not to lower the car like I did and won’t have a problem with rub. It’s tight on a full turn, so don’t do that either, ?. It’s funny cuz I was talking to the BMW group yesterday and they couldn’t fathom why I don’t take the wheel well liner out ?

As you can see, they fit. But on a full turn, as pictured, it’s tight. However, up top, I now have room (finger width) for compression during high speed on track. The Ohlins (or stock suspension) will give you that. Ideally I won’t be doing any full turns on track. Thus no excessive rubbing there. It’s all good ??

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