Issue with Extreme Power House

[mucky]

I appreciate everyone's support and'd like to clarify a few points.

When a customer places an order with us, we do not receive the full amount. A certain percentage is deducted directly by the payment processor (in this case, PayPal) as their transaction fee. This is how they generate revenue. Unfortunately, PayPal's policy has changed over the years and they no longer refund these fees when an order is canceled. While this policy change wasn't made clear by PayPal or other processors, it can make vendors like us appear culpable, even though we don't earn anything from these fees. Larger vendors were hit by this policy change at first, more vendors get added every few months, and eventually, all vendors will be under the same policy.
Note: The processor fee is Paypal + fraud checks for every transaction on the website to protect against fraudulent payments.

You didn't mention that you found a lower price elsewhere when you canceled your order. If you had, we would have been more than happy to refund the difference and ensure you weren't out of pocket. We would also have granted you an additional $25 store credit in line with our policy.

As for the transaction fees, we strive for transparency and have outlined our policy clearly in our terms and conditions, which you agreed to during the purchase. We realize some people may not read these, so we highlight this policy on the cart page and again in the email confirmation. We aim to avoid situations like these and certainly don't want our customers to feel misled.

When an item is out of stock, or there's a website error, we cover these fees ourselves because it's the right thing to do. However, if a customer changes their mind, we believe it's unfair for us to bear the cost of this decision.


As previously stated in this thread, we could charge you significantly more than just the transaction fees according to our terms and conditions. However, we chose not to do so because we believed it's not the right action. Our goal isn't to profit from a change of heart on your part; we merely seek to cover our costs and break even.


Honestly, you can open a dispute with PayPal to recover the money. There's a 50% chance PayPal may refuse the claim, considering we've made our policy clear before your purchase. Conversely, there's a 50% chance they could make us cover the cost, resulting in us losing $61 due to circumstances beyond our control.

If you truly feel wronged and believe we should bear this cost, you can open the dispute. We want to be honest and clear about the situation from our end.




Once you start moving more volume, this will change. Enjoy it while it lasts

First off, I never mentioned I was getting the pipe for a lower price. I'm not sure where you got that information. I would appreciate that you stop posting false information. Secondly, it clear states the fee is refunded or not, at your discretion. you could choose to refund the fee. you chose not to. Nothing changed hands, there is no reason to keep the fee. finally, paypal's fee is %2.99, %0 for consumer to consumer transactions. So why do you charge a %5 fee? It seems as if your making money on this transaction.

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[jtsang25]

First off, I never mentioned I was getting the pipe for a lower price. I'm not sure where you got that information. I would appreciate that you stop posting false information. Secondly, it clear states the fee is refunded or not, at your discretion. you could choose to refund the fee. you chose not to. Nothing changed hands, there is no reason to keep the fee. finally, paypal's fee is %2.99, %0 for consumer to consumer transactions. So why do you charge a %5 fee? It seems as if your making money on this transaction.

Product doesn't have to change hands to charge a cancelation fee.... Cancelation would be before you got the item. After getting the item its a return and refund. Maybe read the policy next time.

 

[Kolme]

First off, I never mentioned I was getting the pipe for a lower price. I'm not sure where you got that information. I would appreciate that you stop posting false information. Secondly, it clear states the fee is refunded or not, at your discretion. you could choose to refund the fee. you chose not to. Nothing changed hands, there is no reason to keep the fee. finally, paypal's fee is %2.99, %0 for consumer to consumer transactions. So why do you charge a %5 fee? It seems as if your making money on this transaction.

Perhaps the discretion is when EPH feels as though the cancellation is due to an issue on their side (such as something being discontinued etc), rather than when it’s a customer changing their minds.

I’d additionally put more trust that EPH knows more about the fees it’s paying. But let’s say they’re wrong and it’s 3%. Is this all worth it for ~$25 even after being told prior to purchase that the fee would apply at their discretion?

 

[Extreme Power House]

First off, I never mentioned I was getting the pipe for a lower price. I'm not sure where you got that information. I would appreciate that you stop posting false information.

My apologies for the misunderstanding. From your initial post, I gathered that you acquired it elsewhere and were able to send your stock downpipe back, which I interpreted as you getting a financial return for the downpipe, thereby making it a better deal overall. I certainly did not intend to spread any misinformation.

Secondly, it clear states the fee is refunded or not, at your discretion. you could choose to refund the fee. you chose not to. Nothing changed hands, there is no reason to keep the fee. finally, paypal's fee is %2.99, %0 for consumer to consumer transactions. So why do you charge a %5 fee? It seems as if your making money on this transaction.

I understand that this situation is frustrating for you, and I am more than willing to explain our company's policies and defend why we operate the way we do. However, I don't think it's constructive to engage in a discussion where I am accused of being dishonest.

I assure you, there is no profit gained from this transaction on our end, as the fees include those for fraud prevention services. If you believe that I would risk our reputation or lose a customer over a small percentage (as you suggested, 1 or 2%, equating to less than $20 in this case), then that is your prerogative.

Even considering your viewpoint, please remember that we clearly communicated our policy in three distinct locations to ensure our customers are fully aware before they make a purchase. If you disagree with this policy, we completely understand, and it is certainly your right to decide whether or not to buy from us. However, once you choose to make a purchase, we expect our customers to respect and abide by the policies they've agreed to. It isn't fair to level accusations after the fact when you've simply changed your mind.


My intention here is merely to clarify our policy, rather than to engage in a fruitless argument. Customers have heard both sides now and can form their own opinions. I'm sorry that this transaction didn't pan out as either of us had hoped. I definitely comprehend your perspective and have refrained from making any accusations. I would kindly ask for the same courtesy in return.
In any case, I wish you all the best with your build.

 

[MA617M]

 

[STi_to_GRzupra]

I have bought several parts from @Extreme Power House so far, and all I can say is positive things and experience. From great pricing to fast shipping.
As a matter of fact, I placed an order on the weekend for 2 sets of BMS spacers and this morning I already have a tracking number.

I had a similar situation when I had the STi. I placed an order for Cusco lower control arms with a popular Subaru vendor and decided to cancel the order because I didn’t need it.
I got charged 25% restocking fee.

 

[NitroYellowMKV]

I appreciate everyone's support and'd like to clarify a few points.

When a customer places an order with us, we do not receive the full amount. A certain percentage is deducted directly by the payment processor (in this case, PayPal) as their transaction fee. This is how they generate revenue. Unfortunately, PayPal's policy has changed over the years and they no longer refund these fees when an order is canceled. While this policy change wasn't made clear by PayPal or other processors, it can make vendors like us appear culpable, even though we don't earn anything from these fees. Larger vendors were hit by this policy change at first, more vendors get added every few months, and eventually, all vendors will be under the same policy.
Note: The processor fee is Paypal + fraud checks for every transaction on the website to protect against fraudulent payments.

You didn't mention that you found a lower price elsewhere when you canceled your order. If you had, we would have been more than happy to refund the difference and ensure you weren't out of pocket. We would also have granted you an additional $25 store credit in line with our policy.

As for the transaction fees, we strive for transparency and have outlined our policy clearly in our terms and conditions, which you agreed to during the purchase. We realize some people may not read these, so we highlight this policy on the cart page and again in the email confirmation. We aim to avoid situations like these and certainly don't want our customers to feel misled.

When an item is out of stock, or there's a website error, we cover these fees ourselves because it's the right thing to do. However, if a customer changes their mind, we believe it's unfair for us to bear the cost of this decision.


As previously stated in this thread, we could charge you significantly more than just the transaction fees according to our terms and conditions. However, we chose not to do so because we believed it's not the right action. Our goal isn't to profit from a change of heart on your part; we merely seek to cover our costs and break even.


Honestly, you can open a dispute with PayPal to recover the money. There's a 50% chance PayPal may refuse the claim, considering we've made our policy clear before your purchase. Conversely, there's a 50% chance they could make us cover the cost, resulting in us losing $61 due to circumstances beyond our control.

If you truly feel wronged and believe we should bear this cost, you can open the dispute. We want to be honest and clear about the situation from our end.




Once you start moving more volume, this will change. Enjoy it while it lasts

Ya no Paypal sucks with their fees and they have gone crazy lately

 

[mucky]

Perhaps the discretion is when EPH feels as though the cancellation is due to an issue on their side (such as something being discontinued etc), rather than when it’s a customer changing their minds.

I’d additionally put more trust that EPH knows more about the fees it’s paying. But let’s say they’re wrong and it’s 3%. Is this all worth it for ~$25 even after being told prior to purchase that the fee would apply at their discretion?

PayPal states %2.99. Standard Credit card fee is %3. For $25, no. But for $67, yes. If the fee is %3, it appears they still get %2 and I get hosed for %5

 

[Extreme Power House]

PayPal states %2.99. Standard Credit card fee is %3. For $25, no. But for $67, yes. If the fee is %3, it appears they still get %2 and I get hosed for %5

Once again, I believe there may be some confusion in your calculations.

1 - The fees vary depending on our volume of transactions and the payment processor we utilize. For instance, if we use Braintree, the fees stand at 2.99%, but if we opt for another service, they rise to 3.99%. Please note that we currently do not use Braintree. Additionally, it's crucial to remember that additional costs are associated with fraud checks.

2 - Regardless of whether the fees are 3%, 5%, or 25%, I'd like to emphasize again that these conditions were made clear to you before your purchase. You agreed to them; you should abide by them.

However, I'm ready to resolve this situation at this stage, even if it means going out of pocket. If you insist that the fees are 3% and presume that we've pocketed 2%, I will reimburse you this 2% to ensure you don't feel wronged. If this solution is acceptable, please let me know, and I'll process a refund of $27.17 first thing tomorrow morning.

 

[Eastwood]

Once again, I believe there may be some confusion in your calculations.

1 - The fees vary depending on our volume of transactions and the payment processor we utilize. For instance, if we use Braintree, the fees stand at 2.99%, but if we opt for another service, they rise to 3.99%. Please note that we currently do not use Braintree. Additionally, it's crucial to remember that additional costs are associated with fraud checks.

2 - Regardless of whether the fees are 3%, 5%, or 25%, I'd like to emphasize again that these conditions were made clear to you before your purchase. You agreed to them; you should abide by them.

However, I'm ready to resolve this situation at this stage, even if it means going out of pocket. If you insist that the fees are 3% and presume that we've pocketed 2%, I will reimburse you this 2% to ensure you don't feel wronged. If this solution is acceptable, please let me know, and I'll process a refund of $27.17 first thing tomorrow morning.

I commend you for your professionalism with this customer. I am a retail district manager and I can appreciate your handling of this situation.

 

[Eastwood]

PayPal states %2.99. Standard Credit card fee is %3. For $25, no. But for $67, yes. If the fee is %3, it appears they still get %2 and I get hosed for %5

Sounds like EPH refunded you 100% of what they received from PayPal. If you want the remaining balance your fight is with PayPal. As EPH stated, fees vary by sales volume and other factors.

 

[jchadwell]

I am so fortunate I do not work in retail. If I did I wouldn't last very long. I would have told you to Eff off a long time ago...

 

[razorlab]

I am so fortunate I do not work in retail. If I did I wouldn't last very long. I would have told you to Eff off a long time ago...

My wife used to work in the service industry and she jokes all the time that I wouldn’t last two hours before telling someone to go fuck themselves. I 100% agree with her. This was in Berkeley, California as well. 9 out of 10 people are entitled pricks there.

 

[zrk]

I would like to post some facts as an unbiased 3rd-party that has built an entire career in the payment systems engineering space, including time at PayPal (source: https://z19r.pw).

* All payment processors operating on sliding fee scales
* PayPal operates as a payment gateway in most cases but can also operate as a processor
* gateways and processors get a cut of the party
* PayPal offers services 'above and beyond' vanilla interchange fees (typically 2.9% + 29c/tx)
* processors and gateways are never fully transparent on their fees (see stripe and square, there are a billion hidden fees)
* Processors net out to gateways, gateways net out to merchants
* In some cases, PayPal has a different fee structure for merchants of various sizes/processing volumes- this can be discounts on gateway and interchange but offset by risk, underwriting, and additional tooling, such as Fraud Detection. This is all industry standard
* Processors and gateways have zero transparency to the end-user on what the fee structure looks like to the merchant

All of this to say, it's literally impossible for an end-user to understand what sort of platform fees, merchant fees, risk-based fees, and tooling fees are charged to the merchant. Honestly, half the time is hard for the merchant even to understand what all the fees are; they're incredibly hard to suss out.

To make some assumption that Merchant A is paying the same fees as Merchant B is borderline unhinged without access to that merchant's financials.

 

[Awales74]

Retailer clearly within their rights. IMHO the thread should be pulled to protect their good name.

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