Oil change

akasonny

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lower SAPS oil tends to have lower TBN values. Higher sulphur gasoline depletes TBN faster. So LL-04 spec wasn’t originally approved for The US.
But now that the sulphur specs are closer to Euro, you should still be able to run lower SAPS engine oils as long as your oil change intervals are relatively shorter (ensuring ample TBN levels).

I don’t really get why people on oil forums still encourage LL-01 use - with the newer DI engines, I thought lower SAPS (eg: LL-04) would be the better option.
I've had to learn more about engine oil than I ever wanted. The upcoming C6 specs seem to be the answer.

I reside in the AZ desert with temps regularly reaching 106F. As such I've wanted to swing over to a heavier oil but finding anything with the C5 spec is difficult. Therefore, I've stuck to Toyota's C5 OEM oil. I'm hoping this will go by the wayside so that I can lean towards something heavier.
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I've had to learn more about engine oil than I ever wanted. The upcoming C6 specs seem to be the answer.

I reside in the AZ desert with temps regularly reaching 106F. As such I've wanted to swing over to a heavier oil but finding anything with the C5 spec is difficult. Therefore, I've stuck to Toyota's C5 OEM oil. I'm hoping this will go by the wayside so that I can lean towards something heavier.
I think you should be able to run an LL-04 oil if you are worried about HTHS. But otherwise, If you’re primarily driving on the street, I don’t think you need a much thicker oil. Of course if you’re tracking the car, then go heavier.

The temperature is often 98F where i live, and Toyota still recommends the 0W-20 oil for our Supras. I have noticed some oil consumption post the first 1000km oil svc. According to the onboard oil measurement - half a liter after 1700mi. But I can’t know for sure how much oil they put in on that svc versus factory fill.

Are you still on factory fill? Would be interesting to hear if you have noticed oil consumption for the OEM spec oil. Perhaps you can give the BMW TPT 5W-30 LL-04 a shot, if you’d like to try something heavier. The B58 should be OK on that - slightly heavier but still low SAPS.
 

akasonny

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I think you should be able to run an LL-04 oil if you are worried about HTHS. But otherwise, If you’re primarily driving on the street, I don’t think you need a much thicker oil. Of course if you’re tracking the car, then go heavier.

The temperature is often 98F where i live, and Toyota still recommends the 0W-20 oil for our Supras. I have noticed some oil consumption post the first 1000km oil svc. According to the onboard oil measurement - half a liter after 1700mi. But I can’t know for sure how much oil they put in on that svc versus factory fill.

Are you still on factory fill? Would be interesting to hear if you have noticed oil consumption for the OEM spec oil. Perhaps you can give the BMW TPT 5W-30 LL-04 a shot, if you’d like to try something heavier. The B58 should be OK on that - slightly heavier but still low SAPS.
I looked at the LL-04 but I see this a lot:

BMW never approved LL-04 for US gasoline engines because of the high sulfur content in our gasoline. It was approved for use in European gasoline and since 2014 the US and European fuels have a closer formula.

I changed the oil at 1200mi at a dealership and made sure they refilled with the proper OE oil. My car is a 2020 3.0 and there was no "low oil" indication up to that point...and none since (current mileage 2950).
 

Motorknut

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I looked at the LL-04 but I see this a lot:

BMW never approved LL-04 for US gasoline engines because of the high sulfur content in our gasoline. It was approved for use in European gasoline and since 2014 the US and European fuels have a closer formula.
yeah, I can understand your hesitation. So I read that US gasoline sulphur content has reduced significantly since, towards euro levels. If you run LL-04 oil at half the official oil change interval, you should be more than safe. in Asia, we started using LL-04 before it was officially advised. Our gasoline sulphur levels were also higher than euro spec back then (we have since matched it), but most owners using LL04 changed it around the 5-6k km mark which is well within the advised 12k km interval. No major problems observed.

Also the C5 OEM oil is low SAPS too. The TBN levels would be comparable to LL-04, and TBN depletion was always the concern when they didn’t advise it for US gasoline back then. If they are fine with C5 oil now, you should be good on LL-04 TBN.

I changed the oil at 1200mi at a dealership and made sure they refilled with the proper OE oil. My car is a 2020 3.0 and there was no "low oil" indication up to that point...and none since (current mileage 2950).
i had a free oil change with the dealer at 1000km, and they filled up with the OEM 0W-20 oil. After 2600km, I’m half a liter down according to the onboard measurement. Not too worried, cos it’s a BMW engine and a thin oil. But I’ll be monitoring it after the next svc. Will consider the LL-04 route when I’m done with the free svc package.

I’ve had no low oil warnings as yet.
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wfujay

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When analyzing oil-weight only, I'm sure you're correct. However, we can't forget about the oil make-up. BMW, in European cars, use a slightly different oil makeup (due to sulfated ash) than we do in ours because of fuel standards. I've been unable to locate anything other than 0W-20 in the C5 standard.
Bro ACEA C5 is literally a European oil standard that only exists to satisfy EPA emissions standards and raise fuel economy, as I've already stated - which is why you can't find anything higher than a 0W-20 (it's basically water). It was also introduced to prevent blockages in diesel particulate filters (which our cars don't have) and 3 way cats, which most of us remove in favor of catless or a higher flowing cat.

So I don't get why you are so hung up on that spec, unless you're really concerned with "destroying" the environment, getting a few mpg's higher on your tanks, or you don't care about performance and plan to keep your stock downpipe forever. A good 5W-40 LL01 oil will provide much better engine protection and lubrication (especially in summer) and will not hurt your catalytic converter one bit. You're literally sacrificing engine protection for nothing imo.

But do your thing.
 

Motorknut

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A good 5W-40 LL01 oil will provide much better engine protection and lubrication (especially in summer) and will not hurt your catalytic converter one bit. You're literally sacrificing engine protection for nothing imo.
the higher SAPS in the LL-01 spec oil may not be so great for carbon deposits. But you could always just do walnut blasting.

I don’t generally like going backwards on oil approvals since technology has moved considerably since the older specifications.

unless the car is being tracked, I lean towards Dr Haas’ (Ferrari chat) perspective on engine oil viscosity. But again, it’s an older write up and things may have evolved. But even back then, he wrote about using 0W-20 oil. So maybe he was onto something.
 

akasonny

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Bro ACEA C5 is literally a European oil standard that only exists to satisfy EPA emissions standards and raise fuel economy, as I've already stated - which is why you can't find anything higher than a 0W-20 (it's basically water). It was also introduced to prevent blockages in diesel particulate filters (which our cars don't have) and 3 way cats, which most of us remove in favor of catless or a higher flowing cat.

So I don't get why you are so hung up on that spec, unless you're really concerned with "destroying" the environment, getting a few mpg's higher on your tanks, or you don't care about performance and plan to keep your stock downpipe forever. A good 5W-40 LL01 oil will provide much better engine protection and lubrication (especially in summer) and will not hurt your catalytic converter one bit. You're literally sacrificing engine protection for nothing imo.

But do your thing.
I will
 

wfujay

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the higher SAPS in the LL-01 spec oil may not be so great for carbon deposits. But you could always just do walnut blasting.

I don’t generally like going backwards on oil approvals since technology has moved considerably since the older specifications.

unless the car is being tracked, I lean towards Dr Haas’ (Ferrari chat) perspective on engine oil viscosity. But again, it’s an older write up and things may have evolved. But even back then, he wrote about using 0W-20 oil. So maybe he was onto something.
Good thing the oil I use is a GTL base oil (natural gas to liquid) which is much cleaner than your typical crude oil, Porsche A40 approved and has an extremely low NOACK. So that shouldn't be a problem.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/noack-pennzoil-platinum-euro-5w-40.275222/
 

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