Race Tracking Your Supra - Information exchange

[Rob_SER]

my first recommentation to you: don't just throw a bunch of mods on at once.

Put one mod at a time and feel them on track before going to the next one. That'll allow you to understand better what each change affects and dial in evey mod individually.

As for the coilovers, well the stock suspension is tuned to perform decently in every situation. If you wan't to switch to coilovers, it's mainly to inscrease performance and ajustability, often to the detriment of comfort.

Personnal opinion, if you are getting a little more serious about track time, a new suspension should be much higher on the list than a big brake kit. You should also consider upgrading to a 200TW tire.

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[razorlab]

Hey ya'll, just wrapped up my third track event this past weekend. First two events were great in learning the car's manners on the track and becoming a smoother driver. Just before the third event I upgraded the rear traction arms and toe links via Megan Racing. Definitely noticed better feel through the rear end, though now I think the bottleneck is the tires (still on the original set when I got the car 4 years ago) and possibly a little more roll in the corners than I'd like. I also upgraded to SS brake lines and Endless RF650 brake fluid.

In all honesty I think I'm still quite a ways away from this car's limits, but the lack of grip from the aging rubber is not exactly confidence inspiring either. These are the upgrades I'm thinking of adding over time to the car as I continue to track it so any feedback would be greatly appreciated:

- Upgraded tires w/ PS4S with 265/35/19 up front and 285/35/19 on the rear for stock wheels
- Front/Rear Sway bars
- Big Brake Kit via Signature Werks
- Coilovers?? (see below)

My burning question is I've heard a lot about coilovers yet don't understand their benefit. I've been told by some they're not very useful but clearly there are a lot of members here using them for the track and I wanted to hear your thoughts on why you use them?

Save a TON of money and just upgrade the brake pads.

Simple explanation to coilovers is that it significantly helps with body control as the springs and dampers are matched better. You can also get away with stiffer springs as the dampening is better than just throwing springs on the oem struts.

If you are trying to stay within a strict budget, the HKS spring kit will work for now.

 

[Gabe]

From re

Yeah, good point. Not well said on my part. Ability for more tilt (neg camber) and not hit the springs ?




If I could do it without it, I would. It just seems to work better when we’ve tried with and without.

I am afraid putting strong forces outside the original design of the suspension is gonna be bad for the car…
From reading here and there, I think the agreement is that spacers are ok for a weekend and track car as long:

- the spacer is good quality
-the spacer is hub centric
-the bolts or studs are length appropriate

Am I right? Anything else?

 

[tomfree]

Hey ya'll, just wrapped up my third track event this past weekend. First two events were great in learning the car's manners on the track and becoming a smoother driver. Just before the third event I upgraded the rear traction arms and toe links via Megan Racing. Definitely noticed better feel through the rear end, though now I think the bottleneck is the tires (still on the original set when I got the car 4 years ago) and possibly a little more roll in the corners than I'd like. I also upgraded to SS brake lines and Endless RF650 brake fluid.

In all honesty I think I'm still quite a ways away from this car's limits, but the lack of grip from the aging rubber is not exactly confidence inspiring either. These are the upgrades I'm thinking of adding over time to the car as I continue to track it so any feedback would be greatly appreciated:

- Upgraded tires w/ PS4S with 265/35/19 up front and 285/35/19 on the rear for stock wheels
- Front/Rear Sway bars
- Big Brake Kit via Signature Werks
- Coilovers?? (see below)

My burning question is I've heard a lot about coilovers yet don't understand their benefit. I've been told by some they're not very useful but clearly there are a lot of members here using them for the track and I wanted to hear your thoughts on why you use them?

I"m with Bryan...brake pads, brake pads, brake pads. This platform has EXCELLENT brakes until you get to silly power levels. I strongly recommend against a BBK at this point in the car's development.

Why coilovers? Well...let's break down a few things at are usually glossed over.

1. Any spring/damper setup that has the damper inside of the spring is technically a coilover. Supra fronts are coilovers. The rears are not.
2. What people REALLY mean are threaded adjustable spring perches. This gives you the ability to adjust ride height and the corner balance the car.
3. The vast majority of the time, coilovers also mean shorter, high fixed-rate springs that you can swap out easily to different lengths and rates, as they're standard sizes. 2.5", 2.25", and 60mm are the most common sizes.
4. Typically coilover springs are also a smaller diameter, so you have more room for wider wheel/tire combos.

In Supra world, we're blessed with a car that has a TON of room in the wheel wells for wide wheel/tire combos. There are plenty of us who are running some pretty wide combos with stock springs (me), or stock-style springs like the HKS mentioned earlier.

I used to be a track instructor, and had the privilege of working with a lot of great instructors over my 20+ years on track. Thoughts shared with me repeatedly over the years that are worth your consideration:

- A bone stock car on stock tires with stock brakes is FAR more capable than most people understand.
- Making a whole bunch of changes at once is the best way to get really frustrated with the car, and doesn't help your learning curve as a driver
- You get the most bang for your buck (performance-wise) with tires, brake pads, and brake fluid. Do this first and save your money for more instructed track events.
- You learn the most as a driver when you are approaching or at the car's limits. Every modification that makes the car more capable means it's harder to get to that limit. Also factor in that you're now going even faster...and that increases your risk at the limit.

 

[razorlab]

From re

I am afraid putting strong forces outside the original design of the suspension is gonna be bad for the car…
From reading here and there, I think the agreement is that spacers are ok for a weekend and track car as long:

- the spacer is good quality
-the spacer is hub centric
-the bolts or studs are length appropriate

Am I right? Anything else?

With a hub and wheel centric spacer, torqued properly, it's just the same as running a wheel with a lower offset.

You'll notice that the BMW GT4 race cars run pretty large spacers, 15-20mm. However, people overly abuse these kind of references as race cars have MUCH different maintenance and service schedules. They also look over the car before/after every event. Let's be honest, 95% of Supra owners don't even know what torque the wheels should be set to, let alone ever look over anything other than the dash display.

 

[Rob_SER]

Stock GR Corolla has a 10mm rear spacer

 

[tg_mkv]

I"m with Bryan...brake pads, brake pads, brake pads. This platform has EXCELLENT brakes until you get to silly power levels. I strongly recommend against a BBK at this point in the car's development.

Why coilovers? Well...let's break down a few things at are usually glossed over.

1. Any spring/damper setup that has the damper inside of the spring is technically a coilover. Supra fronts are coilovers. The rears are not.
2. What people REALLY mean are threaded adjustable spring perches. This gives you the ability to adjust ride height and the corner balance the car.
3. The vast majority of the time, coilovers also mean shorter, high fixed-rate springs that you can swap out easily to different lengths and rates, as they're standard sizes. 2.5", 2.25", and 60mm are the most common sizes.
4. Typically coilover springs are also a smaller diameter, so you have more room for wider wheel/tire combos.

In Supra world, we're blessed with a car that has a TON of room in the wheel wells for wide wheel/tire combos. There are plenty of us who are running some pretty wide combos with stock springs (me), or stock-style springs like the HKS mentioned earlier.

I used to be a track instructor, and had the privilege of working with a lot of great instructors over my 20+ years on track. Thoughts shared with me repeatedly over the years that are worth your consideration:

- A bone stock car on stock tires with stock brakes is FAR more capable than most people understand.
- Making a whole bunch of changes at once is the best way to get really frustrated with the car, and doesn't help your learning curve as a driver
- You get the most bang for your buck (performance-wise) with tires, brake pads, and brake fluid. Do this first and save your money for more instructed track events.
- You learn the most as a driver when you are approaching or at the car's limits. Every modification that makes the car more capable means it's harder to get to that limit. Also factor in that you're now going even faster...and that increases your risk at the limit.

Really appreciate everyone's feedback and I really appreciate your breakdown for coilovers. I'm totally fine with just sticking with new rubber (albeit slightly wider) and eventually new pads once I'm finished wearing the current one's down. Definitely open to coilovers in the future once I finally find that limit on the stock setup. I always assumed coilovers just enabled more customization and that seems to track for the most part.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I"m with Bryan...brake pads, brake pads, brake pads. This platform has EXCELLENT brakes until you get to silly power levels. I strongly recommend against a BBK at this point in the car's development.

- A bone stock car on stock tires with stock brakes is FAR more capable than most people understand.
- Making a whole bunch of changes at once is the best way to get really frustrated with the car, and doesn't help your learning curve as a driver
- You get the most bang for your buck (performance-wise) with tires, brake pads, and brake fluid. Do this first and save your money for more instructed track events.
- You learn the most as a driver when you are approaching or at the car's limits. Every modification that makes the car more capable means it's harder to get to that limit. Also factor in that you're now going even faster...and that increases your risk at the limit.

Really appreciate everyone's feedback and I really appreciate your breakdown for coilovers. I'm totally fine with just sticking with new rubber (albeit slightly wider) and eventually new pads once I'm finished wearing the current one's down. Definitely open to coilovers in the future once I finally find that limit on the stock setup. I always assumed coilovers just enabled more customization and that seems to track for the most part.

Holy shit Tom is spot on!!!! It takes lots and lots of track days to get more comfortable & confident with the car. A new driver can add a ton of stuff but it won’t matter until they get the feel with their ass & dead pedal on what to do at high speed.

Eventually steering input corrections, brake & throttle modulation becomes natural and awareness of other cars around you, then you start thinking about slicks & coilovers, imo. Fresh good brake fluid, pads, steel brake lines, sway bars are all great starts for now. This car is mega capable right out of the box. Making seat time being the best mod of all. Coilovers need serviced and rebuilt = downtime. Additionally you need someone to make the adjustments for you working with your feedback of what’s going on during track sessions. Ride height, spring rates, etc. Unless you’re really versed at suspension track setups, you may not get the right adjustments/ benefit after they are installed.

 

[tomfree]

It's a 100% totally natural reaction to do a few events at the beginning of your track driving career and start a laundry list of stuff that you "must" do the car. I'm happy you asked...we probably saved you some $.

 

[FLtrackdays]

It's a 100% totally natural reaction to do a few events at the beginning of your track driving career and start a laundry list of stuff that you "must" do the car. I'm happy you asked...we probably saved you some $.

And yet it’s so hard not to want to do EVERYTHING ?

I was lucky that I had some good track/race friends constantly correct me with all the magic ? mods I was going to do to my 1st track car (Mazda RX8) and make it quicker, lol. Depressingly, seats were the 1st thing they told me to get. They were right. It dropped my times dramatically just being able to feel everything! I thought for sure they would want to install a giant turbo, supercharger, nitrous perhaps and I’d be blowing by everyone, LOL.

 

[tomfree]

And yet it’s so hard not to want to do EVERYTHING ?

I was lucky that I had some good track/race friends constantly correct me with all the magic ? mods I was going to do to my 1st track car (Mazda RX8) and make it quicker, lol. Depressingly, seats were the 1st thing they told me to get. They were right. It dropped my times dramatically just being able to feel everything!

I had an RX-8 on '05-'06 that I tracked in nearly stock form. The seats do indeed suck on track. I had one of those seatbelt lock devices that helped, but at the end of every weekend, my left knee was SORE from bracing myself in the car.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I had an RX-8 on '05-'06 that I tracked in nearly stock form. The seats do indeed suck on track. I had one of those seatbelt lock devices that helped, but at the end of every weekend, my left knee was SORE from bracing myself in the car.

I’m currently doing that now with the Supra. Have a kneepad. I know…. blasphemous.

We went so far down the wabbit hole with our S2k that I swore this time I was going to try and keep her closer to stock. That’s definitely the next biggest upgrade I need to do next, with sliders so both of us can drive, and street belt & harness for track.

 

[DC5UPRA]

I’m currently doing that now with the Supra. Have a kneepad. I know…. blasphemous.

We went so far down the wabbit hole with our S2k that I swore this time I was going to try and keep her closer to stock. That’s definitely the next biggest upgrade I need to do next, with sliders so both of us can drive, and street belt & harness for track.

Seatbelt lock device, if so which one? I struggle to lock the drivers seatbelt but passenger one locks fine.

 

[Rensuhlo]

Seatbelt lock device, if so which one? I struggle to lock the drivers seatbelt but passenger one locks fine.

Seatbelt locker

 

[FLtrackdays]

Seatbelt lock device, if so which one? I struggle to lock the drivers seatbelt but passenger one locks fine.

Seatbelt locker

One like Chuck linked above and moving my seat back, pull quick to lock it & scooting it forward does wonders for keeping you tight. Doesn’t beat a real race seat ofc. But in the meantime ?

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