Race Tracking Your Supra - Information exchange

[Traxion]

Then to at least answer, I'm at 750f/700r non divorced and pretty happy. I have not run other spring rates to compare feel to though.

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[Evolution]

Full lap video is up. Horrible like normal.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Full lap video is up. Horrible like normal.

Good line, car control & hitting those apexs. Surprised how much tire squeal you're getting. Without the speed displayed, you must be cooking or those tires have seen better days. What tires are you running & were they at the end of their life cycle?

 

[Evolution]

Good line, car control & hitting those apexs. Surprised how much tire squeal you're getting. Without the speed displayed, you must be coking or those tires have seen better days. What tires are you running & were they at the end of their life cycle?

Thanks man! Ya the tires do like to make some noise. That was my 3rd track day on them so they are still pretty fresh. I just like to push them to 11/10ths. They are RE71RS. The track is a fast one. Was in 4th-6th most of the time. I am working on a way to get some data in the videos. Probably happen for the next rack event.

 

[spaghettihoes]

Well after another weekend at the track, I think I have finally decided to run with no traction control from now on. Normally run with just one click off and have no issues. I dont know why it kicked in on me so bad this time but it was bad enough, I almost lost it. Would have been a no issue turn with it all the way off.



I also found the limit for hot mushy tires.... ?

Had the same thing happen to me at turn 1 at Thunderhill as I typically leave it at 1 click until the tires warm up. Felt awful in the car as I was trying to correct but on the video it didn't look that bad. I think the loss of control is jarring and makes it feel like the car is fighting you (which it technically is) but I think it did exactly what it was supposed to do and stopped the oversteer while slowing you down.

That being said I agree that full off is better especially if you know how to correct oversteer.

 

[razorlab]

Had the same thing happen to me at turn 1 at Thunderhill as I typically leave it at 1 click until the tires warm up. Felt awful in the car as I was trying to correct but on the video it didn't look that bad. I think the loss of control is jarring and makes it feel like the car is fighting you (which it technically is) but I think it did exactly what it was supposed to do and stopped the oversteer while slowing you down.

That being said I agree that full off is better especially if you know how to correct oversteer.

Haha I think we all have these stories. My moment the car tried to just shoot me straight off the track on turn 1 at Lime Rock. I was chasing a TCR car and was gaining on him every lap so I was pushing a bit hard.

The super interesting thing is that it opened up the diff as well, you can see in this video, I get back on the throttle after getting the car sorted and one wheel just lights up. I can tell you this car feels like absolute ass with an open diff.

 

[94boosted]

In my slow journey towards switching from 90% autocross & 10% track to the inverse of that, I've read through the last 80 or so pages of this thread along with @razorlab awesome build thread. Both have answered a lot of questions I didn't even know I had.

In preparation for the upcoming season I've already purchased a Garmin Catalyst and a Simpson Hybrid S, not realizing my SNELL M helmet wouldn't be compatible, I had to buy a SNELL SA helmet too. Coupled with our weak Canadian dollar, it left a bit less room for mods than I had originally planned.

I had plans for some coilovers and a square set of wheels, but those will likely have to wait until next year now. So I'm focusing on the absolute essentials for this season. Feedback welcome.

Wheels
I already have a set of 18x9 & 18x10 Enkei Racing GTC02's (autocross wheels) along with a set of 19x9.5 & 19x10.5 Superspeed RF05RR's. Still debating on tires (CRS, RT660, V730, SC3(R) or Vitour P1's), so depending on pricing & availability I'll either run some 255/35/18 & 275/35/18's or 265/30/19 & 285/30/19's.

Brakes
- New front rotors
- SS brake lines (Goodridge)
- Project Mu Pads
Q: Can I get by with just front pads, or should I be doing front & rear?

Suspension
- Car already has a front bar and the swivel bearings (to gain -0.5° of static camber)
Option 1 Verkline or SPL LCA's to dial in more static camber
Option 2 RS-R Down Sus or Eibach Euro Kit Lowering Springs (these seem to provide a very minimal amount of drop) + Verus Camber plates.
Really leaning towards option 2 knowing just how soft the OE springs are. Option 2 is roughly the same cost as just some Verkline LCA's.
Q: What would the experienced track rats recommend?
- SPL eccentric lockout kit, 2 seasons of autocross and the rear alignment staid put. Q: What would the experienced track rats recommend, not sure if this is needed or not?

Maintenance/Random Stuff
- Replacement wheel lug bolts, likely just go for OEM
- Diff fluid (Motul Gear 300 75W-90)
- 0W-20 was fine for autocross but looking for something a bit heavier for track days, ideally something that meets LL01 at least, 5W-30 or 5W-40. Seems like Motul 8100 5W-40 is a solid option. My car is still under warranty though so I don't want anything that will give me issues at the dealer in the unlikely event something happens. Q: Anything heavier that won't give me warranty issues?
- Fresh plugs, Q: NGK or OEM?
- That big hunk of steel bolted to the rear diff, why is it there? Assuming it's something to do with NVH. Q: will removing it adversely affect the rear diff bushings and cause them to fail even more prematurely?

Apologize for all the questions, thank you to all of those that take time to keep this thread so helpful for track day noobs like me.

 

[Traxion]

Apologize for all the questions, thank you to all of those that take time to keep this thread so helpful for track day noobs like me.

Glad to have you on board, I made that switch as well at the beginning of 2023 and it's been a blast.

Wheels/tires - as a newbie I would suggest going the price for performance route which means go with V730. I would suggest going 275 square. You should be able to fit them on your Enkei fronts and clear the stock spring perch by adding a 15mm spacer. The V730 stay consistent their whole life. CRS heat cycle out quicker and might have tread but won't have grip, same for RT660. Any 200tw tire is going to be servicable for sure if you're not driving at a high level yet but the V730 are a lot cheaper in 275/18 size. Your main focus should be spending money on seat time.

Brakes - if rotors look like they need changing then do it. SS brake lines is cheap and good for safety, might as well do those. Bryan I think is still on OEM lines so that's not much of a concern though. You'd be fine swapping front pads only. I generally go through 2 front sets per 1 rear set. Once you finish your rears then swap them to PMu as well.

Suspension - skip springs and stay on OEM suspension + camber plates. Change to Ohlins or MCS coilovers depending on when you're ready for them. I wouldn't go LCA eithers, that's money better spent towards coilovers. Lockout kit - I've never had an issue with my rear alignment, seems like a skip to me.

Maintenance

• Why lug bolts? Do a stud conversion from motosports hardware. Makes swapping wheels way easier.
• Diff fluid - Bryan's mentioned what he runs somewhere in this thread. I still run OEM and get it from FCP Euro for free replacements
• Oil - PLZ NOT AGAIN - I ran my first and second season on OEM 0w-20. Now this third season I'm on Liquimoly 5w-30 from FCP Euro for free replacements as well. Bryan I think runs 5w-40 and he's done 50-60 track days. This horse is beaten to death more than enough, run anything just change it often (for me that's 3-4 track weekends). It'll be up to your local dealership for how much of a stickler they are on warranty.
• Spark Plugs - I recently hit 40k miles and I'm on NGK now and they're fine. Stock power it probably doesn't matter.
• Hunk of steel - It's supposed to reduce resonant vibration. Yes it can be removed.

 

[94boosted]

Glad to have you on board, I made that switch as well at the beginning of 2023 and it's been a blast.

Wheels/tires - as a newbie I would suggest going the price for performance route which means go with V730. I would suggest going 275 square. You should be able to fit them on your Enkei fronts and clear the stock spring perch by adding a 15mm spacer. The V730 stay consistent their whole life. CRS heat cycle out quicker and might have tread but won't have grip, same for RT660. Any 200tw tire is going to be servicable for sure if you're not driving at a high level yet but the V730 are a lot cheaper in 275/18 size. Your main focus should be spending money on seat time.

Brakes - if rotors look like they need changing then do it. SS brake lines is cheap and good for safety, might as well do those. Bryan I think is still on OEM lines so that's not much of a concern though. You'd be fine swapping front pads only. I generally go through 2 front sets per 1 rear set. Once you finish your rears then swap them to PMu as well.

Suspension - skip springs and stay on OEM suspension + camber plates. Change to Ohlins or MCS coilovers depending on when you're ready for them. I wouldn't go LCA eithers, that's money better spent towards coilovers. Lockout kit - I've never had an issue with my rear alignment, seems like a skip to me.

Maintenance

• Why lug bolts? Do a stud conversion from motosports hardware. Makes swapping wheels way easier.
• Diff fluid - Bryan's mentioned what he runs somewhere in this thread. I still run OEM and get it from FCP Euro for free replacements
• Oil - PLZ NOT AGAIN - I ran my first and second season on OEM 0w-20. Now this third season I'm on Liquimoly 5w-30 from FCP Euro for free replacements as well. Bryan I think runs 5w-40 and he's done 50-60 track days. This horse is beaten to death more than enough, run anything just change it often (for me that's 3-4 track weekends). It'll be up to your local dealership for how much of a stickler they are on warranty.
• Spark Plugs - I recently hit 40k miles and I'm on NGK now and they're fine. Stock power it probably doesn't matter.
• Hunk of steel - It's supposed to reduce resonant vibration. Yes it can be removed.

Thanks Traxion, appreciate the detailed response.

Certainly not a noob to performance driving just a noob to tracking the Supra specifically, I've only done a couple of track days in this specific car. V730 seems like a solid option but the new P1's seem to be getting a lot of positive attention and the price is great.

A 275 square tire won't work for me with the current wheels I have, again they're autocross legal wheels so it's an 18x9(F) and 18x10(R) wheel, for this season at least I'll likely have to run a staggered tire. So, it comes down to either 18x9/18x10 or my 19x9.5/19x10.5 wheels.

As for studs vs. lugs I suppose it doesn't really matter, it'll come down to price & availability.

 

[Traxion]

Thanks Traxion, appreciate the detailed response.

Certainly not a noob to performance driving just a noob to tracking the Supra specifically, I've only done a couple of track days in this specific car. V730 seems like a solid option but the new P1's seem to be getting a lot of positive attention and the price is great.

A 275 square tire won't work for me with the current wheels I have, again they're autocross legal wheels so it's an 18x9(F) and 18x10(R) wheel, for this season at least I'll likely have to run a staggered tire. So, it comes down to either 18x9/18x10 or my 19x9.5/19x10.5 wheels.

As for studs vs. lugs I suppose it doesn't really matter, it'll come down to price & availability.

Yeah I understand, it kinda depends on what you want to be competitive in and where you want your priorities. If you want to be max competitive in autocross BS then you'd be running 265f/295r on the 18's on RE71RS and you'd make your 19's your track wheels and just go as big as possible on those. If you want to cut down your costs, you need to use the 18's for track.

There might be a chance 275 fits on the front without a spacer. I'm pretty sure there's a couple people in the Huntsville region that run 275 on their fronts in BS, including the BS national champion (Charles Krampert). You could reach out to him on facebook and ask. He's also in the B-Street FB group if you need to find him.

Back to track topic, it also depends on what organization you're running with. If you are running with a group that's strict and requires starting in lower skilled run groups and getting approved promotions to higher level group, then running a top tier tire in novice isn't worth it even if you're the fastest guy in the group. They might force you to run 2-3 weekends in Novice first. Then another 2-4 in intermediate before going to advanced. That was my problem since I had a lot of autocross experience and had a much higher baseline than my peers. The difference in tires is a a couple seconds and you're more likely to be held up by novice traffic than anything. Gridding in front as you probably know can still catch traffic by the 2nd lap. The same holds true even in the higher run groups due to Miatas until you get to Time Trials where they grid cars based on lap times.

 

[94boosted]

Yeah I understand, it kinda depends on what you want to be competitive in and where you want your priorities. If you want to be max competitive in autocross BS then you'd be running 265f/295r on the 18's on RE71RS and you'd make your 19's your track wheels and just go as big as possible on those. If you want to cut down your costs, you need to use the 18's for track.

There might be a chance 275 fits on the front without a spacer. I'm pretty sure there's a couple people in the Huntsville region that run 275 on their fronts in BS, including the BS national champion (Charles Krampert). You could reach out to him on facebook and ask. He's also in the B-Street FB group if you need to find him.

Back to track topic, it also depends on what organization you're running with. If you are running with a group that's strict and requires starting in lower skilled run groups and getting approved promotions to higher level group, then running a top tier tire in novice isn't worth it even if you're the fastest guy in the group. They might force you to run 2-3 weekends in Novice first. Then another 2-4 in intermediate before going to advanced. That was my problem since I had a lot of autocross experience and had a much higher baseline than my peers. The difference in tires is a a couple seconds and you're more likely to be held up by novice traffic than anything. Gridding in front as you probably know can still catch traffic by the 2nd lap. The same holds true even in the higher run groups due to Miatas until you get to Time Trials where they grid cars based on lap times.

Yah I'm done limiting myself and caring about BS class legality, after 13+ years of autocross it's time to move on haha. If I choose to autox the car the odd time I'm fine running it in SST.

The group that does track days here at my local track is pretty awesome, they move you up very quickly once they see you know what you're doing, you're safe and you have decent pace. I got moved up from novice to intermediate to advanced in my first day

 

[Traxion]

I got moved up from novice to intermediate to advanced in my first day

Awesome then sounds like you're a lot farther along than I was expecting. Then my recommendation would change to V730 (if not competing) > RE71RS > trying out Vitour P1. RE71RS are basically the same price as CRS/RT660 and are IMO the best when on peak grip and much better than the other options past peak, it's a slow drop off almost unnoticeable weekend to weekend and I can only tell the difference when I buy a new set and remember how good they are when fresh.

 

[94boosted]

Awesome then sounds like you're a lot farther along than I was expecting. Then my recommendation would change to V730 (if not competing) > RE71RS > trying out Vitour P1. RE71RS are basically the same price as CRS/RT660 and are IMO the best when on peak grip and much better than the other options past peak, it's a slow drop off almost unnoticeable weekend to weekend and I can only tell the difference when I buy a new set and remember how good they are when fresh.

I've ran through a few sets of RE71RS's on the Supra already, mostly autocross but again a couple track days too. In my opinion they heat cycle out pretty quickly, and they're expensive.

 

[spaghettihoes]

Awesome then sounds like you're a lot farther along than I was expecting. Then my recommendation would change to V730 (if not competing) > RE71RS > trying out Vitour P1. RE71RS are basically the same price as CRS/RT660 and are IMO the best when on peak grip and much better than the other options past peak, it's a slow drop off almost unnoticeable weekend to weekend and I can only tell the difference when I buy a new set and remember how good they are when fresh.

FYI Falken just released a new RT660+ tire that's supposed to be the same performance with greater heat tolerance. It's still too early to see how well they actually hold up but I use RT660s currently and am pretty happy with how they perform especially since they're a bit better in the wet than CRSv2s or V730s.

 

[94boosted]

FYI Falken just released a new RT660+ tire that's supposed to be the same performance with greater heat tolerance. It's still too early to see how well they actually hold up but I use RT660s currently and am pretty happy with how they perform especially since they're a bit better in the wet than CRSv2s or V730s.

Good to know, my experience with 660's was largely positive so I'd happily try out a new compound.

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