Race Tracking Your Supra - Information exchange

[tomfree]

In my opinion it is much easier to learn how to drive around slight understeer by getting better at mid corner and corner exit throttle control and you still gain the benefit of smoothing out weight transition from the front sway bar, especially in esses.

We're on the same page here, for sure. It's definitely easier to drive around a little understeer with trail braking throttle modulation. I've had the good fortune to have tracked FWD, AWD, and RWD cars over the years. I'd had understeering dump trucks, I've had tail happy maniacs that try to kill you, and neutral cars that cover up your mistakes and make you look like a hero.

I've talked about my use case a bunch on here, so I won't bore everyone again, but the F&R bar setup was the right decision for me for the first 2 years of owning the car. I like the balance, and the car is a "fun" tail happy, vs maniacal. I'm now collecting aero bits and will probably end up with something similar to your car at some point.

I will say as an average wrench, the subframe drop wasn't _that_ bad. I had the luxury of a mid-rise lift, and it took 2 of us about 8 hours from start to finish.

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[razorlab]

After you’ve tried that and still need/want a little more/quicker turn in, give yourself some toe out up front. I did that this last track weekend and it was one of the best & cheapest upgrades I’ve done in a long time. Even just 5mm per side and she’ll become way more playful & stop fighting your inputs.

5mm toe out EACH side? I think you might be mistaken. If not, RIP your tires in 500 miles. Even 2.5mm each side for a total of 5mm is a lot in the front.

 

[3TMagnetMan]

More like a bigger lip... no tunnels or anything... weak offering. I run their cold air duct tho.
AJ Hartman testing his splitter, with very nice tunnels, should be out on the market soon with canards:

I like those hood vents

 

[FLtrackdays]

5mm toe out EACH side? I think you might be mistaken. If not, RIP your tires in 500 miles. Even 2.5mm each side for a total of 5mm is a lot in the front.

It must be total toe out then. Thanks for the correction Bryan! I’ll ask the shop next time I go in to review my settings in their computer. He‘s modest as hell type of guy. Told me the 5mm toe out was pretty standard at our level, not being our 1st track day. The owner (different person) said the car would drift a bit in a straight line. But honestly, it’s not noticeable. What was/is noticeable is how much better the car felt on track to me. It didn’t take long getting use to the quicker turn in.

We're on the same page here, for sure. It's definitely easier to drive around a little understeer with trail braking throttle modulation. I've had the good fortune to have tracked FWD, AWD, and RWD cars over the years. I'd had understeering dump trucks, I've had tail happy maniacs that try to kill you, and neutral cars that cover up your mistakes and make you look like a hero.

I've talked about my use case a bunch on here, so I won't bore everyone again, but the F&R bar setup was the right decision for me for the first 2 years of owning the car. I like the balance, and the car is a "fun" tail happy, vs maniacal. I'm now collecting aero bits and will probably end up with something similar to your car at some point.

I will say as an average wrench, the subframe drop wasn't _that_ bad. I had the luxury of a mid-rise lift, and it took 2 of us about 8 hours from start to finish.

Just wanted to clarify, I had the sway bars set to stiffest front and back when I had lowering springs (some hundred pages back lol). Once the Ohlins were put on, the shop dialed them back down. So, before adding toe out up front, we moved the front sway bar to the middle setting - which also helped reduce understeer. Conversely the rear sway bars (which were on the softest setting) is now up a notch for better rotation.

Thought I‘d clarify that if anyone else was having similar problems with adjustable sway bars. There’s a lot of moving parts involved. No one setting is perfect for everyone. Camber, compression, how fast you drive, what kind of track you drive on, temperature (grip), lots of factors…

 

[Z4m40i]

Can someone teach me more about brakes?

After my pure850 install, my car is about 10-20mph in straightaways and I can't believe how much additional braking that adds. An example is entering turn 2 at Laguna Seca, I manage to hit about 130mph vs 115mph stock turbo + e50 and I smoked my brakes in 2 track days there.

I'll be trying out some Paragon R7 pads next month paired with verus brake coolers. A couple questions about brakes

1) Why choose brake cooling vs running a pad with a higher operating temperature?
2) What are the negatives about running the most aggressive coefficient of friction pad? Is more not necessarily better?
3) I've heard around that it's best to brake as hard as you can without triggering ABS. I feel like I've always just broke as much as I needed regardless of ABS intervention.
4) Are there really any benefits to running a two piece rotor? The weight savings seem negligible given the price delta, and I question how much heat it prevents @ the wheel bearing. I've just been running zimmermann 1 piece blanks because they're cheap, plentiful, and lifetime replacements via fcp euro.
5) what is an acceptable temperature for the brakes to finally just let your car sit in the paddock? I always do a cooldown lap and then a couple laps in the paddock and front rotor temps can still be 500F+.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Can someone teach me more about brakes?

After my pure850 install, my car is about 10-20mph in straightaways and I can't believe how much additional braking that adds. An example is entering turn 2 at Laguna Seca, I manage to hit about 130mph vs 115mph stock turbo + e50 and I smoked my brakes in 2 track days there.

I'll be trying out some Paragon R7 pads next month paired with verus brake coolers. A couple questions about brakes

1) Why choose brake cooling vs running a pad with a higher operating temperature?
2) What are the negatives about running the most aggressive coefficient of friction pad? Is more not necessarily better?
3) I've heard around that it's best to brake as hard as you can without triggering ABS. I feel like I've always just broke as much as I needed regardless of ABS intervention.
4) Are there really any benefits to running a two piece rotor? The weight savings seem negligible given the price delta, and I question how much heat it prevents @ the wheel bearing. I've just been running zimmermann 1 piece blanks because they're cheap, plentiful, and lifetime replacements via fcp euro.
5) what is an acceptable temperature for the brakes to finally just let your car sit in the paddock? I always do a cooldown lap and then a couple laps in the paddock and front rotor temps can still be 500F+.

1) You need both
2) You could get too much bite (say in the rear) and the car would be harder to rotate. In a smaller lighter car, harder to modulate and not trigger the ABS, or you’re just beginning & it’d be a bitch to learn trail braking.
3) Best stability, control and stopping power right before ABS. Imagine trail braking through a corner with ABS on.
4) Two piece is better in theory. They help dissipate heat, you can buy just the rotor and keep the hat. Problem is, it’s not cost efficient, that I’ve found.
5) You don’t want to be over 500F ? Practice driving without using the brakes at all (or very little). You can even drive around the paddock a bit before going back to your spot/garage.

 

[tg_mkv]

Couple questions for the folks who've widened the front tires (specifically for the stock rims):

- How much did you widen the front tires by?

- Did you notice any loss in feel or responsiveness?

- Any benefits felt from widening the fronts?

I'm overdue to replace my OEM tires and have been thinking about widening front/rears but the more I think about it, since this car isn't AWD I don't know how much benefit widening the front tires would be compared to the rear and if I would just be sacrificing feel and response.

Currently looking to run 265/35/19 up front and 285/35/19 at the rear.

 

[Rob_SER]

Well... more grip...

The front tires might not have drive, but they still are the tires steering the car...

 

[Rocksandblues]

That is an easy up size. Switching tw has more result Or buying good tires

 

[tg_mkv]

That is an easy up size. Switching tw has more result Or buying good tires

Yeah I'm planning on going from the Super Sports to 4S and then eventually something similar to the Toyo R888r's once I gain some more confidence on the track.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Couple questions for the folks who've widened the front tires (specifically for the stock rims):

- How much did you widen the front tires by?

- Did you notice any loss in feel or responsiveness?

- Any benefits felt from widening the fronts?

I'm overdue to replace my OEM tires and have been thinking about widening front/rears but the more I think about it, since this car isn't AWD I don't know how much benefit widening the front tires would be compared to the rear and if I would just be sacrificing feel and response.

Currently looking to run 265/35/19 up front and 285/35/19 at the rear.

I was worried about going square initially. Giving her bigger than intended tires up front. It wasn’t too bad, but definitely grippier (causing less understeer). That can easily be fixed multiple ways mentioned earlier. And like Rock Bob said, grippier tread wear will be your best bank for the buck ?

Yeah I'm planning on going from the Super Sports to 4S and then eventually something similar to the Toyo R888r's once I gain some more confidence on the track.

https://www.maxxis.com/us/tires/autolt/competition

A good friend moved up to Maxxis VR-2 tires and loves them. He’s only done about 6 track days and has way more grip now. Yet still not as aggressive as running the RC-1 that I‘m on. You’d be able to hear them breaking away. Until you get even more confidence to counter steer by feel alone.

 

[Gabe]

Yeah I'm planning on going from the Super Sports to 4S and then eventually something similar to the Toyo R888r's once I gain some more confidence on the track.

I’m a track noob too. I’m happy with my tire choice.

I got the Continental Extreme Contact Sport 02.

is an upgrade from the Super Sport

has very similar tread quality as the PS4S

is way way more affordable than the Michelins and have rebates.

so far I have done a couple of track weekends on them and they are grippy enough to learn but also let you know when you are losing traction in the corners.

 

[Rocksandblues]

Yeah I'm planning on going from the Super Sports to 4S and then eventually something similar to the Toyo R888r's once I gain some more confidence on the track.

Don’t know anyone running 888s fwiw

 

[Rensuhlo]

Don’t know anyone running 888s fwiw

YOU DONT KNOW TJ HUNT? HES THE BEST DRIVER.

 

[Rob_SER]

I was worried about going square initially. Giving her bigger than intended tires up front. It wasn’t too bad, but definitely grippier (causing more understeer). That can easily be fixed multiple ways mentioned earlier. And like Rock Bob said, grippier tread wear will be your best bank for the buck ?



https://www.maxxis.com/us/tires/autolt/competition

A good friend moved up to Maxxis VR-2 tires and loves them. He’s only done about 6 track days and has way more grip now. Yet still not as aggressive as running the RC-1 that I‘m on. You’d be able to hear them breaking away. Until you get even more confidence to counter steer by feel alone.

How does increasing the front tire size increase understeer?

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