Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 / Subaru BRZ

KahnBB6

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Sad news. But they kind of just let it happen by not updating the car. Personally I have liked the FR-S/86/BRZ. I did not expect them to be what the MKV is at all. +50hp and +50tq would have been nice though.

The good news is that it leaves even more room for another small 2+2 RWD manual fun car, Akio wants more Toyota sports cars and the Supra is already their most expensive sports car in the lineup. So there should be one or more other models coming in where the 86 currently is in the lineup. A production S-FR or a Celica 2+2 manual possibly with AWD... and the MR2.




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KahnBB6

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Tried telling people people there is no gen 2 in the works
Yeah... you were dead on. As usual, lol.

I remember you said you'd heard nothing at all for a very long time... which more or less to you meant "dead car, still rolling"? I think it was actually Tada or some other Toyota rep who at one point not long ago was talking about the hypothetical possibility of a second generation car. Maybe that's what the auto trades picked up on at the time?

If it's dead within a year or so or less then I can see the 197hp MKV (with a manual) filling in the gap for now... but...

All I know now is they now have a great $50k 2-seater only flagship very high performance sportscar and they want to make another MR2 RWD-MR 2-seater as a compact hybrid-electric or pure EV... but... hopefully they will offer a 2+2 not-FWD-only coupe with a stick that costs well below $50k. They keep bringing up the Celica name and occasionally the GT-Four sub-model name so... ;)

Then again maybe I'm in the minority but just the same as with the 86 I really liked the S-FR concept. Like an even more scaled down 86 but with the same basic formula. If that one really would cost much less than the 86 but still be manual, RWD, LSD and very basic I can see it doing better actually.

I really hope they can find a way to make all or most of those available under the MKV.
 

SS09ER

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@A70TTR Now that a rumor on the internet says gt86/brz getting axed,was there any discuss inside Toyota about it?Any info would be helpfull,it is the car that brought the excitement back!!
 

A70TTR

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I hope they revisit the 86 eventually or replace it with something comparable, but there are several issues that provide a better argument against it vs for it.

They know the 86 needs a 30hp bump minimum to be considered competitive, but that requires more time and R&D on a platform that most of the community has already passed by.

The 197hp A90 is a fairly pointless car IMO and likely won't sell much even in Asia, but the 250hp car is really where the issue lies. It's roughy 3100lbs which is 300lbs more than the 86 (not insignificant really) granted with 50hp added. It's much more tunable fundamentally due to the forced induction, but It's also slated in right at $40k which is way more expensive than the $28k 86.

So I guess the real question is would the 250hp A90 compete for sales with the 86, and I think it would given how small the market it, which is part of the reason they didn't bring that car to the US (the other being the marketing that Supra = I6 in NA).
 

A70TTR

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IMO, 86 is the modernized rendition as one would expect. The GTS hatch was 10.6k in 1986 (2400lbs/112hp). When adjusted for inflation that's ~25k in today's money which is right about where the 86 (2800lbs/205hp) fits in.

The AE86 was way more of a shitbox than the 86 though if that's what you mean lol; I think the S-FR would very much match the lightweight shitbox appeal more for sure, but it be more like going back to the 80s than a modern equivalent (2200lbs/130hp). In any case, the SF-R has been dead for a long time now...
 

MLG Tofu Shop

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I'll keep my eyes peeled, whatever Toyota's plans are for their entry level sports car will be.

IMO the 4 cylinder versions of the Supra are rather pointless.
 

A70TTR

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@A70TTR Now that a rumor on the internet says gt86/brz getting axed,was there any discuss inside Toyota about it?Any info would be helpfull,it is the car that brought the excitement back!!
nah, much more interest in the Supra and other projects. the 86 unfortunately fell through the cracks more or less IMO.
 

Bryster

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PicsArt_02-09-10.19.50.jpg
just a quick GT87 render i came up with
 

Red-hat

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it would actually surprise me if they put the fa24 in it and the reason is emissions of course.
The FA24 is new from 2018, and will be emissions compliant in other (larger, heavier) subaru models like the Ascent. So emissions can’t be that bad. Honestly, if making it NA is the thing that penalises emissions too badly, just keep it turbo! In the Ascent it makes 194kW/ 260HP and 376Nm/ 277lb⋅ft... an excellent power bump for a next gen 86!
 

XtremeMaC

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well, untrained technicians for boxer engines taking the whole engine apart and putting back together with inadequate instructions certainly can cause issues anywhere. For the most part (unless similar recall for Supra), hopefully no one should need or would want their engine to be rebuilt at dealers. There was also CEL error at launch time that caused many people to take apart their engines... connected issues...

To be honest, I was hesitant to take my FRS to get this recall done at Toyota dealers and those who did not are lucky so far. This always begged the question of can I take my car to Subaru dealership for regular maintenance, which should be possible (never tried it because I had purchased extended warranty). Also, darn technicians can't even properly drive manuals!

I don't know about taking Toyota's to BMW dealerships though..
 

DesmoSD

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well, untrained technicians for boxer engines taking the whole engine apart and putting back together with inadequate instructions certainly can cause issues anywhere. For the most part (unless similar recall for Supra), hopefully no one should need or would want their engine to be rebuilt at dealers. There was also CEL error at launch time that caused many people to take apart their engines... connected issues...

To be honest, I was hesitant to take my FRS to get this recall done at Toyota dealers and those who did not are lucky so far. This always begged the question of can I take my car to Subaru dealership for regular maintenance, which should be possible (never tried it because I had purchased extended warranty). Also, darn technicians can't even properly drive manuals!

I don't know about taking Toyota's to BMW dealerships though..
I don't blame ya, I wouldn't trust the dealership and would see if Subaru can handle it. If Toyota techs are having difficulty with the boxer engine on a 7 yr old car, how much more for the MKV being a non-Toyota vehicle. Not to put down the 86/BRZ but that vehicle is very un-Toyota in regards to build quality.
 

Mr.Jay

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I loved my 86 but it was easily one of the least reliable cars I have owned however I was a early adopter first batch of FRS in my area

I wouldn't never buy a first year car again because of it so let's see where the mkV is in a few years
 

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