Spied: Toyota benchmarking Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) for new Supra?

[Craigy]

The Japs are incredibly conservative when it comes to these projects, or at least they have been for the past couple decades. It either has to be a high volume money maker or some ridiculous over the top technological tour de force or they are unwilling.

Honda just barely got its very expensive NSX out after waiting more than a decade and the Civic Type R is still forthcoming after we've been without anything resembling a sportscar since I think 2009 with the S2000. Nissan has the impressive but very long in the tooth GTR, as well as the Z which they've been producing since ~2003. Subaru is still making the same power in their WRX and Mitsu finally gave up on theirs.

Even this Toyota is an American design, German built car. I want to say the NSX is also an American design, and made in the USA. The Japanese can clearly make great stuff in the six figure range but other than that, everything other Japanese car that's remotely sporty is either decidedly entry-level or a luxobarge.

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[HKz]

eh i don't think they are that conservative..honda at least kept up their si & type r trims throughout the 2000s, nissan & subie as you say kept their core sports models and even mitsubishi had the evo last for quite a while..dont forget their kei cars too like the s660..people like to say toyota wasnt doing anything after the mk4 supra but they were pouring money into the lfa project for 10 years which explains the gap up to the gt86. it isn't like the other economy brands were pumping out sports cars either...

 

[Sun Devil]

I'm not sure the LFA project was a win for Toyota. Wish they would have used all that R&D $$$$$$ towards building some ALL Toyota sport cars for those people who can't afford the ultra-uber LFA.

 

[HKz]

I'm not sure the LFA project was a win for Toyota. Wish they would have used all that R&D $$$$$$ towards building some ALL Toyota sport cars for those people who can't afford the ultra-uber LFA.

wut lol...since you couldn't afford it, it constitutes as a loss..?..lol...it moved brand perceptions of both Lexus & Toyota tremendously and the LFA has quite the cult following...it was still quite the performer and not to mention it has one of the best induction and exhaust noises of all time..idk how you can say that about a modern 2000GT

 

[Sun Devil]

wut lol...since you couldn't afford it, it constitutes as a loss..?..lol...it moved brand perceptions of both Lexus & Toyota tremendously and the LFA has quite the cult following...it was still quite the performer and not to mention it has one of the best induction and exhaust noises of all time..idk how you can say that about a modern 2000GT

Agreed on the exhaust note. The body is underwhelming for the $. Under powered at 550 hp. Plenty of cars that can put it to shame.

If Toyota would have built a mid-engined LFA .... than maybe, just maybe it would have been worth it's price tag.

 

[HKz]

Agreed on the exhaust note. The body is underwhelming for the $. Under powered at 550 hp. Plenty of cars that can put it to shame.

If Toyota would have built a mid-engined LFA .... than maybe, just maybe it would have been worth it's price tag.

what about the body is underwhelming? design or engineering? in a group of crazy styled supercars i like the cleanly styled lfa and i'm not sure what is better than a carbon tub? sure they could have gone midengine but the carrera gt already had that covered so the lfa being fr makes it in a way kinda unique among the echelon of super cars.

and the lfa aint underpowered..the problem with you folks is you can't take the whole picture in mind...when has toyota ever made anything entirely dedicated to performance? they engineer for practicality and useability, no different with the lfa as it has a great cabin and for a supercar, reviewers have noted it doesn't beat them up on the streets. regarding money, no super car is a bargain so it is silly to look at it from a $ ratio, and plus when do hear a 2%er who can truly afford that class of vehicles complain about the cost??

 

[Sun Devil]

what about the body is underwhelming? design or engineering? in a group of crazy styled supercars i like the cleanly styled lfa and i'm not sure what is better than a carbon tub? sure they could have gone midengine but the carrera gt already had that covered so the lfa being fr makes it in a way kinda unique among the echelon of super cars.

and the lfa aint underpowered..the problem with you folks is you can't take the whole picture in mind...when has toyota ever made anything entirely dedicated to performance? they engineer for practicality and useability, no different with the lfa as it has a great cabin and for a supercar, reviewers have noted it doesn't beat them up on the streets. regarding money, no super car is a bargain so it is silly to look at it from a $ ratio, and plus when do hear a 2%er who can truly afford that class of vehicles complain about the cost??

HKz ... you sure like to banter and I like it.

IMHO ... a halo car should be somewhat attainable so that the general public can see these cars out in the real world instead of reading about them in mags. The Audi R8 is a perfect example of how a halo car is done. The R8 is obtainable, "relatively" affordable in the the super car realm, and is quite common. People can see it. In the flesh. The family genes are readily apparent with the R8 and people make this connection through buying the other Audis.

The LFA is rare and $400K is an obstacle to it being more common on the streets. It is also dealing with brand snobbery. Trust me. The R8 gets the "Its just an Audi" all the time.

IMHO ... the LFA should have been a $200K car.

In baseball ..... singles and RBIs account for more runs than home runs.

 

[HKz]

HKz ... you sure like to banter and I like it.

IMHO ... a halo car should be somewhat attainable so that the general public can see these cars out in the real world instead of reading about them in mags. The Audi R8 is a perfect example of how a halo car is done. The R8 is obtainable, "relatively" affordable in the the super car realm, and is quite common. People can see it. In the flesh. The family genes are readily apparent with the R8 and people make this connection through buying the other Audis.

The LFA is rare and $400K is an obstacle to it being more common on the streets. It is also dealing with brand snobbery. Trust me. The R8 gets the "Its just an Audi" all the time.

IMHO ... the LFA should have been a $200K car.

In baseball ..... singles and RBIs account for more runs than home runs.

whether or not the LFA was considered a "halo" car and the definition of being a halo car are both quite subjective so that point is silly to argue..the LFA's goal was equivalent to what the 2000GT set out to do, they are technological and design showcases to move brand perception...never in doubt, of course you would counter with the R8 you don't have (still baffling how an 86 turns to a R8 and then to a Supra..why not get a 911 or i8?). Yes, the R8 is a wonderful machine and I loved how the 1st gen had a manual trans options which was really the only selling point in my eyes...but regardless, you don't get that 6 figure cars aren't bought for their value..please show me a single 2%er concerned with hp per dollar. Plus you do realize the LFA holds its own quite well. It takes a special edition R8 GT ($250 K) to match the regular LFA Nurburgring time...N-Ring Edition is no contest...you are still paying for a carbon tub and a beautiful interior..

and yes i like to banter, hence why im divorced

 

[Sun Devil]

whether or not the LFA was considered a "halo" car and the definition of being a halo car are both quite subjective so that point is silly to argue..the LFA's goal was equivalent to what the 2000GT set out to do, they are technological and design showcases to move brand perception...never in doubt, of course you would counter with the R8 you don't have (still baffling how an 86 turns to a R8 and then to a Supra..why not get a 911 or i8?). Yes, the R8 is a wonderful machine and I loved how the 1st gen had a manual trans options which was really the only selling point in my eyes...but regardless, you don't get that 6 figure cars aren't bought for their value..please show me a single 2%er concerned with hp per dollar. Plus you do realize the LFA holds its own quite well. It takes a special edition R8 GT ($250 K) to match the regular LFA Nurburgring time...N-Ring Edition is no contest...you are still paying for a carbon tub and a beautiful interior..

and yes i like to banter, hence why im divorced

All good man.

Had the R8 1st. Needed an economical DD and had many Celicas as a young driver. Enter the FR-S. Loved that car, but ..... wanted something with more power.
Owned 3 911s prior to the R8. 996TT, 997cab and 997TT. Wanted something more exotic ..... hence the R8.
Had the R8 for 3 years. Mag shocks were going $$. Tires were worn out $$. Tags were due $. Warranty was up $. Ticket for aggressive driving $. Time to move on from the R8.

The Supra "hopefully" will be perfect. Adequate power 400+. Not too expensive 50-60K. Warranty. Can DD and not worry too much.
Not a fan of the i8.

Sorry if this all comes out as a passive brag, but HKz asked.

So, I have some REAL LIFE experiences to back up my humble post opinions, not just things I have read somewhere.

Again .... it's all good.

 

[vb22]

In this interview Tada san hinting at the Cayman being the benchmark.

http://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/gt-86/1...otas-three-strong-sports-car-lineup-is-coming

What kind of car will the new Toyota Supra be?

'A Supra should be lighter than it’s rivals. Personally speaking, my favourite Porsche is the Boxster and Cayman, although I am a little disappointed with the four-cylinder engine. The Cayman helps a lot of us here to make a sports car.'

 

[Craigy]

If true, the 911 I see but the why quote the M4? Is BMW really ok with saying here take one of OUR engines and put it in a better handling/lighter car that may outperform most of the cars in our line up? Unless we are talking just the B58 block here and BMW saying here you go Toyota you build what you want on this base. I want an all Toyota engine but if something like that is the case I think most who wanted an all Toyota engine may be ok with this option rather than a full blown BMW B58 so long as it they make it great.

I'm going to be really upset if we don't hear something here soon...3 hours to go!

1) We still don't know if there is actually going to be a BMW powertrain in this car.

2) You could use the same argument against the shared platform in general. They are two companies setting out to make their own products.

3) 911 and M4 are essentially the same market anyway. Anything that's targeting a 911 but for less money is going to be in M4 territory.

 

[A70TTR]

Just wanted to throw out that this car DESTROYED the Z4 on Spa and by that I mean absolutely annhilated it lol.

I cant post the numbers, but this has created a serious point of contention between the BMW and Toyota teams.

 

[BrettS]

Was the time comparable with other cars in its class?

 

[A70TTR]

not sure on that as the time I given was a matter of seconds ahead versus an overall time

that said, I have a feeling this car is easily on par or even faster than cars in its class given how certain people responded to the times

 

[soundman414]

Was the time comparable with other cars in its class?

The M2, M3, RS3, RS4, ISF, C63, XE R... Pretty much any compact sport coupe or sedan within the $50k-$70k range

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