State Referee

[concept]

Yep. What @Evolution says. Most of the people I see getting in trouble drive like idiots, run around with straight pipes, etc.
I am a grown ass man and have only had a couple run-ins. Both of mine have been with CHP so that explains that lol
I have moved away to other states and keep coming back to California. Fresno, specifically. My house is cheap, cost of living is relatively cheap. I can drive a couple hours and be at the state capitol, the beach, the desert, one of the best mountain ranges in the country. I can go to San Diego, Mexico, Las Vegas. I can fly internationally.
Every weekend I am doing stuff that can mostly only be done in the state, or at least it's a little bit easier.
Also, there are race tracks everywhere! And good ones lol
What's expensive to stay in California and the politics can be frustrating if you pay attention to that kind of thing. Still, I am not leaving. It's awesome here.

Your house is cheap because it is many years old? That's the beauty of Prop 13. You can have a multi-million-dollar house and pay less than $5000/year for property tax. I've been here since 1985. The weather is tough to beat.

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[kaj]

Your house is cheap because it is many years old? That's the beauty of Prop 13. You can have a multi-million-dollar house and pay less than $5000/year for property tax. I've been here since 1985. The weather is tough to beat.

Yep! Built in the 60s. 15,000ft2 lot. Two car garage, huge back yard, blah blah. My mortgage is $1,000. Hard to beat that AND have all the nice weather ????

 

[Drnick]

This is getting off the rails!, what was the original post about again?, ah yes , person needs a referee for his supposedly loud vehicle, because the CHP, or an equivalent
LEA , didn’t like the offending noise, so motorists had to go through the Hoops!
For a noise ticket!! And requires a referee!!
To resolve his NO NO? OMG! Bad motorists!
Bad Motorists!?

 

[digatron]

Digitron, so explain for the rest of us, what happened when the Kalifornia noise cops pulled you over, they just gave you a citation,
And you merrily went on your way? Or……they
Insisted on the” Rack” for punishment?

leave mall, start car in parking lot, cop comes up, says loud exhaust, pop my hood, gave me attitude, asked dumb questions, gave citation, no referee sticker, but violations are for ref, went to sushi.

 

[KahnBB6]

Stock tune? If not, I hope you have a way to put the stock CVN back in the ecu. They will check for that at the ref.

I think in California now when smogging they check for tampered ecu

I have never been sent to the ref so I don't know for sure. Just going off what others have told me. What I gathered from them was it didn't matter what the ticket was for, it was a trip to the ref who verifies 100% of your car is legal. It's like do you think they would let you go if you got a ticket for tint and showed up with a catless straight pipe exhaust?

A California BAR Ref visit most certainly will involve them plugging into the ECU to check the CVN marker to identify whether or not an aftermarket tune has been loaded. They're wise to this now.

However there are SOME aftermarket tunes which are approved after having gone through the extremely costly and lengthy CARB EO testing process. Usually this is something the OEMs do (see Ford with newer Mustangs for instance) but a few aftermarket companies have gone to the lengths and trouble for specific model years of specific vehicles if they've developed a tune which still passes all the required standards. I don't know what such tunes may or may not exist for any of the Supra MKV's however.

Every time I read a thread like this I wonder how Harleys get away with their obnoxiously loud exhausts from a 1000cc engine. I routinely hear bikes screaming or pickups with 6" exhausts ripping up the highway near me, but somehow a 3L with straight pipes is the end of society as we know it.

^^ This is a very annoying double standard. On one hand motorcyclists are in more danger than car drivers and to some degree do have better chances of safety if their small vehicles can be heard by everyone.

Some motorcycles are obnoxiously loud. I don't mind that much honestly... because they're motorcycles. However a car that is the same level of loudness often gets unwanted police attention while the motorcyclist (especially if the bike is a Harley, Honda Shadow or other loud V-Twin) often isn't harassed about it.

This can also extend to the smog exempt 1975 and older classic cars and old muscle cars in CA. While they *can* get harassed for loud exhausts they usually aren't unless the driver is making a serious nuisance of themselves with their driving.

...

OP, having spent many years in southern California myself for many years I recommend option #1. Put it back to stock, get it inspected and cleared off on, pay the fine and move on. The modified exhaust laws there have gotten very stupid but this isn't worth the headache. After it's over with why not look into some other aftermarket freer flowing exhaust system that still works within the max dB limits? Or which at least doesn't go beyond the required dB limits at cold start and with some low revs?

I've looked into a lot of CA BAR requirements for what is involved when you have to deal with the BAR inspectors when I built my 90's Lexus SC with a fully CA BAR legal 2JZ-GTE engine swap following all the rules strictly. I've kept the original exhaust system and mufflers with the spare parts just in case they might ever be needed for when the car goes with me when I move back there.

What happened to you sucks so much. I am sorry you have to go through this. But at least all it amounts to is changing back an exhaust system to stock while you still have all the 335whp or 382whp that you started with.

It is much worse when someone has a great chassis (that was cursed with a really underpowered boat anchor of an engine from the factory) that they swap a more powerful engine into which one way or another doesn't conform to a configuration that can be made legal in CA... even if it actually burns more efficiently and cleaner than the original stock engine....which then requires them to swap out the entire good and desirable engine and throw back in the old stock engine which makes their otherwise great vehicle chassis drive horribly all over again. And hopefully that old lump still passes smog.

Sometimes with enough careful planning of the right chassis and right donor engine and transmission you can avoid this, have your cake and eat it too. I managed to do it... but it wasn't easy or cheap.

...

The most egregious practice that I've been monitoring is these cases where very new stock performance cars are ticketed for a loud/modified exhaust (Hyundai Elantra N, some Dodge Challeger trim levels, stock Lancer Evolution 9's and X's, etc.) when they have completely stock OEM exhaust systems. Maybe these incidents are due to these vehicles being in a sport or track mode but these vehicles have no "back to stock" to revert to... since they were never modified!

As far as I am aware these sport modes and track modes pass the max allowable decibel tests just as well as any Normal mode will. If this were not the case then why do some new manual transmission performance cars have quieter factory exhausts than their automatic transmission counterparts of the same model years?

(That's a larger discussion but in that case it has been established that the A/T cars can very easily game the dB testing rules while the M/T variant of the same car cannot fare nearly as well)

....

As for California itself, it has cost of living drawbacks for sure but there are other places that come pretty close. I've loved it there even despite some occasional difficulties. I'll be moving back there and it is one of the most beautiful places you can be in... especially if you love mountains, beaches, the desert, national parks and yes, even car culture.

As to owning a classic car out there the biggest issue is that the old 30 year rolling smog exemption got cut off making all 1976 and newer vehicles permanently required to endure smog testing and draconian visual inspection no matter how rare, hard to find, discontinued or antiquated certain OEM parts are.

This is particularly difficult for any 1976-2000 vehicle owner. Same model year or newer model year driveline swaps if everything can be made to fit and work are one way to improve everything but maintaining an older '76-'00 car 100% perfectly and finding a smog shop that still operates a roller dyno BAR97 smog machine is a pain and a chore.

Most people don't drive their '76-'00 classic whether all stock or resto-modded as a daily driver anyway.

 

[Drnick]

leave mall, start car in parking lot, cop comes up, says loud exhaust, pop my hood, gave me attitude, asked dumb questions, gave citation, no referee sticker, but violations are for ref, went to sushi.

CHP patrols the parking lots ? Ok,had dinner or lunch (sushi) then what does the citation involve thereafter? And what happens if your out of state vehicle gets a similar citation?

 

[KahnBB6]

CHP patrols the parking lots ? Ok,had dinner or lunch (sushi) then what does the citation involve thereafter? And what happens if your out of state vehicle gets a similar citation?

If you have an out of state vehicle I'm not sure if they can ticket you for violating California exhaust noise laws while operating the car on California roads. Probably they can.

On the smog and visual compliance part an out of state registered car isn't subject to the same restrictions. However... if it can be proved that you're driving an out of state registered car in California while actually living in California at an address then they can get you for that.

Now a LOT of people have their own normal non-enthusiast out of state registered cars in southern California that don't attract any attention and there are rental cars there with out of state plates (I just rented one in L.A. a couple of months ago which had Florida plates on it) and they are not bothered by the police. That doesn't mean they won't get unlucky at some point but I see it out there frequently.

Cars that tend to attract more unwanted police attention tend to have a higher incidence of this risk however.

Although in all the time I drove my modified SC300 out there (no crazy body kit and not yet turbocharged at that time but with mild aftermarket cat back mufflers, lots of suspension work, big brakes, wide tires, etc.) I didn't have any such trouble. It was registered legally in the state and I always stayed on top of any repairs needed to pass smog every two years. No issues or hassles. But I also never took it to car meets-- I just drove it as my daily.

It all gets very subjective as to who gets attention and citation. The smog compliance laws are pretty clear and strict but the recent exhaust noise laws are a bit too vague and not always interpreted fairly when even some factory stock unmodified cars get cited using them.

 

[digatron]

CHP patrols the parking lots ? Ok,had dinner or lunch (sushi) then what does the citation involve thereafter? And what happens if your out of state vehicle gets a similar citation?

It was a city police officer that pulled me over. CHP or City police can issue the violations. Some cities even have their own ordinances where I live (Newport Beach/Laguna Beach). If youre out of state can't get you for it pretty sure, BUT if you have a california license and an out of state plate, better hope they believe your bull shit or you're evading california taxes 8)

 

[digatron]

A California BAR Ref visit most certainly will involve them plugging into the ECU to check the CVN marker to identify whether or not an aftermarket tune has been loaded. They're wise to this now.

However there are SOME aftermarket tunes which are approved after having gone through the extremely costly and lengthy CARB EO testing process. Usually this is something the OEMs do (see Ford with newer Mustangs for instance) but a few aftermarket companies have gone to the lengths and trouble for specific model years of specific vehicles if they've developed a tune which still passes all the required standards. I don't know what such tunes may or may not exist for any of the Supra MKV's however.



^^ This is a very annoying double standard. On one hand motorcyclists are in more danger than car drivers and to some degree do have better chances of safety if their small vehicles can be heard by everyone.

Some motorcycles are obnoxiously loud. I don't mind that much honestly... because they're motorcycles. However a car that is the same level of loudness often gets unwanted police attention while the motorcyclist (especially if the bike is a Harley, Honda Shadow or other loud V-Twin) often isn't harassed about it.

This can also extend to the smog exempt 1975 and older classic cars and old muscle cars in CA. While they *can* get harassed for loud exhausts they usually aren't unless the driver is making a serious nuisance of themselves with their driving.

...

OP, having spent many years in southern California myself for many years I recommend option #1. Put it back to stock, get it inspected and cleared off on, pay the fine and move on. The modified exhaust laws there have gotten very stupid but this isn't worth the headache. After it's over with why not look into some other aftermarket freer flowing exhaust system that still works within the max dB limits? Or which at least doesn't go beyond the required dB limits at cold start and with some low revs?

I've looked into a lot of CA BAR requirements for what is involved when you have to deal with the BAR inspectors when I built my 90's Lexus SC with a fully CA BAR legal 2JZ-GTE engine swap following all the rules strictly. I've kept the original exhaust system and mufflers with the spare parts just in case they might ever be needed for when the car goes with me when I move back there.

What happened to you sucks so much. I am sorry you have to go through this. But at least all it amounts to is changing back an exhaust system to stock while you still have all the 335whp or 382whp that you started with.

It is much worse when someone has a great chassis (that was cursed with a really underpowered boat anchor of an engine from the factory) that they swap a more powerful engine into which one way or another doesn't conform to a configuration that can be made legal in CA... even if it actually burns more efficiently and cleaner than the original stock engine....which then requires them to swap out the entire good and desirable engine and throw back in the old stock engine which makes their otherwise great vehicle chassis drive horribly all over again. And hopefully that old lump still passes smog.

Sometimes with enough careful planning of the right chassis and right donor engine and transmission you can avoid this, have your cake and eat it too. I managed to do it... but it wasn't easy or cheap.

...

The most egregious practice that I've been monitoring is these cases where very new stock performance cars are ticketed for a loud/modified exhaust (Hyundai Elantra N, some Dodge Challeger trim levels, stock Lancer Evolution 9's and X's, etc.) when they have completely stock OEM exhaust systems. Maybe these incidents are due to these vehicles being in a sport or track mode but these vehicles have no "back to stock" to revert to... since they were never modified!

As far as I am aware these sport modes and track modes pass the max allowable decibel tests just as well as any Normal mode will. If this were not the case then why do some new manual transmission performance cars have quieter factory exhausts than their automatic transmission counterparts of the same model years?

(That's a larger discussion but in that case it has been established that the A/T cars can very easily game the dB testing rules while the M/T variant of the same car cannot fare nearly as well)

....

As for California itself, it has cost of living drawbacks for sure but there are other places that come pretty close. I've loved it there even despite some occasional difficulties. I'll be moving back there and it is one of the most beautiful places you can be in... especially if you love mountains, beaches, the desert, national parks and yes, even car culture.

As to owning a classic car out there the biggest issue is that the old 30 year rolling smog exemption got cut off making all 1976 and newer vehicles permanently required to endure smog testing and draconian visual inspection no matter how rare, hard to find, discontinued or antiquated certain OEM parts are.

This is particularly difficult for any 1976-2000 vehicle owner. Same model year or newer model year driveline swaps if everything can be made to fit and work are one way to improve everything but maintaining an older '76-'00 car 100% perfectly and finding a smog shop that still operates a roller dyno BAR97 smog machine is a pain and a chore.

Most people don't drive their '76-'00 classic whether all stock or resto-modded as a daily driver anyway.

I put my stock exhaust back on and left the catless downpipe on for now to test how I like it. Surprisingly, I do enjoy it, no drone, and when im on it I can hear it enough to enjoy it. Of course its not ear deafening loud as my previous setup, but the valved stock exhaust is perfectly fine for my power levels on stock turbo anyway. Probably just going to leave it like this, and eventually go race cat or something when i realize i dont want cancer from the fumes in the long term (man that crap stinks up the garage).

 

[dn00]

Man it sucks here. Don't come

 

[FLtrackdays]

I lived in Woodland Hills CA for a bit and have relatives in Napa Valley. California is freaking beautiful. The weather sure beats the swamp humidity imo. The majority of Floridians prefer lower taxes and less government intervention. Love our kids and don’t want Washington deciding what’s best for us. One size fits all approach is no bueno. Like every other State, Florida shouldn’t be legislating Alaska, Montana or California and vice versa. Hence I love our history and why we separated in the 1st place.

Sucks this happened to ya @digatron. Sounds like Jason @kaj has some good working knowledge with these issues. I’d used his advice in a heartbeat. Too bad they’re not focusing on real criminals. But that can be said anywhere. Y’all have the power to vote ? some of those things out. Get active & vocal with it brother! Find legislators that care more about real issues & support em. The burbs tend to be a bit less intrusive. Larger metro areas want/need more tax dollars. Hopefully an option for you in the future.

Regardless, to each his own. The media hype goes both ways. Don’t drink the Cool-aid on either side @Drnick. Remember where Ronald Regan & Arnold Schwarzenegger came from? ? Good peeps all over this country. The key is sticking together in times of trouble & let each State govern itself.

 

[Drnick]

Trackdays , “ the majority of Floridians prefer lower taxes and less government “? , ah, I think u should’ve rephrased that, the majority of the people in this country prefer less taxes and government,except of course, Kalifornia, who consistently vote in the fools that dictate
There lives! PS I’m so honored that you mentioned me,?

 

[FLtrackdays]

Trackdays , “ the majority of Floridians prefer lower taxes and less government “? , ah, I think u should’ve rephrased that, the majority of the people in this country prefer less taxes and government,except of course, Kalifornia, who consistently vote in the fools that dictate
There lives! PS I’m so honored that you mentioned me,?

It’s a car forum. So the idea is to help others with their cars regardless of where they are from. I think Jason has been the most helpful in this regard. Hopefully he can go to court and prove he’s under 95 decibels. Problem solved. That’d be the ideal situation.

 

[kaj]

True dat, yeah let’s lay off Kalifornians, they have enough problems ???

Nice BMW


Re: OP topic/non topic: Just read an article containing an interview with the automotive rep for CARB. Their "dream" is to have Californians out of single-occupant cars and into mass transit or otherwise ride sharing. That explais why they make owning a car such a miserable experience.

 

[Drnick]

Nice BMW


Re: or topic/non topic: Just read an article containing an interview with the automotive rep for CARB. Their "dream" is to have Californians out of single-occupant cars and into mass transit or otherwise ride sharing. That explais why they make owning a car such a miserable experience.

?????

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