Toyota "Preparing" Hotter Supra GRMN, Says Chief Engineer

[DesmoSD]

If the rumors between BMW and Jaguar/Land Rover are true, Toyota may not be their only competitor with a BMW Sxx motor in their cars.

Yeah I'm still very skeptical about this too, but to justbake's credit, I do remember reading this article a whiles back. https://www.motor1.com/news/378408/land-rover-defender-svr-bmw-engine/

I'm not clear of the details between Toyota and BMW's partnership, but if it has some clause that Toyota could "order" BMW engines at an added cost.... I guess it's possible. A GRMN Supra with an S58 could give a Cayman GT4 a run for it's money IMO.

IMO, I think Jaguar/Land Rover would more likely get the entry level S58. I doubt the Supra would get any S58 engine. The B58 is going the engine, which has been proven to make more power with the '21.

The entry-level version of the S58 delivers 480 PS (473 hp in the US) and offers 600 Newton meters (442 lb-ft) of torque, making it more powerful that even the engine found in the M3 CS and M4 CS models. The top models X3 M Competition and X4 M Competition are using a tuned up version of the S58 delivering around 510 PS (503 hp), but the expectations are that more power can be squeezed out of the engine if other sportscars emerge under the M Division

well, if you like things that hang out below 7:10 on the 'Ring then you might like what's coming. then again, pre-production is just that, so...

I do because that puts it up with the big dogs.

10. Ferrari 488 Pista Christian Gebhardt 7:00.03 720 / 1474
11. Dodge Viper ACR (Mk V) Lance Arnold 7:01.30 654 / 1536
12. Mercedes-Benz AMG GT R Pro Maro Engel 7:04.63 585 / 1640
13. Nio EP9 unknown 7:05.12 1360 / 1735
14. Mercedes-Benz AMG GT R Pro Christian Gebhardt 7:07.00 585 / 1640
15. McLaren 720S Christian Gebhardt 7:08.00 720 / 1431
16. Nissan GT-R Nismo (R35) Michael Krumm 7:08.68 600 / 1741
17. McLaren 600LT Christian Gebhardt 7:08.82 600 / 1399
18. Mercedes-Benz AMG GT R Christian Gebhardt 7:10.92 585 / 1626

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[formsracing]

Hell, I’d be happy if BMW let Toyota put the S55 in there at this point!

IMO, I think Jaguar/Land Rover would more likely get the entry level S58. I doubt the Supra would get any S58 engine. The B58 is going the engine, which has been proven to make more power with the '21.

The entry-level version of the S58 delivers 480 PS (473 hp in the US) and offers 600 Newton meters (442 lb-ft) of torque, making it more powerful that even the engine found in the M3 CS and M4 CS models. The top models X3 M Competition and X4 M Competition are using a tuned up version of the S58 delivering around 510 PS (503 hp), but the expectations are that more power can be squeezed out of the engine if other sportscars emerge under the M Division



I do because that puts it up with the big dogs.

10. Ferrari 488 Pista Christian Gebhardt 7:00.03 720 / 1474
11. Dodge Viper ACR (Mk V) Lance Arnold 7:01.30 654 / 1536
12. Mercedes-Benz AMG GT R Pro Maro Engel 7:04.63 585 / 1640
13. Nio EP9 unknown 7:05.12 1360 / 1735
14. Mercedes-Benz AMG GT R Pro Christian Gebhardt 7:07.00 585 / 1640
15. McLaren 720S Christian Gebhardt 7:08.00 720 / 1431
16. Nissan GT-R Nismo (R35) Michael Krumm 7:08.68 600 / 1741
17. McLaren 600LT Christian Gebhardt 7:08.82 600 / 1399
18. Mercedes-Benz AMG GT R Christian Gebhardt 7:10.92 585 / 1626

 

[mkivalex]

So I guess this pandemic and the forthcoming Auto sector recession will not play well for a GRMN version..?

 

[halfmonkey]

So I guess this pandemic and the forthcoming Auto sector recession will not play well for a GRMN version..?

It seems that with the A80 and A90, the release of the respective new generation Supra at those times have unofficially been the best predictor of a recession in the US. With sport cars already selling the least amount of units of any type of car, you add to the fact that Toyota created so much controversy by partnering with BMW and now with this global economic downturn, it really doesn't look good for a future A100 Supra let alone a GRMN version.

We can only hope that Toyota/BMW already budgeted for the GRMN version and will push forward with it no matter what but dang, this COVID-19 isn't helping.

Frankly, I love the Supra and would love to see what they do with the GRMN version. So far, it seems that the B58 engine is holding up well and the S58 seems like it's a beast. It seems to me that if they did a GRMN version, it would have a detuned version of the S58 or a really hotted-up version of the B58 although I don't think a hotted-up version of the B58 is likely since I don't see this in any other BMW and to create a hotted-up B58 for just one application seems very unlikely.

 

[justbake]

BMW's internal image of the S58 ECU/DME features the Supra. This typically only happens when parts are shared with that particular car so they only need to produce a single image instead one for each car. Thoughts?

Link

 

[mkivalex]

Very interesting on that DME....

 

[KahnBB6]

Frankly, I love the Supra and would love to see what they do with the GRMN version. So far, it seems that the B58 engine is holding up well and the S58 seems like it's a beast. It seems to me that if they did a GRMN version, it would have a detuned version of the S58 or a really hotted-up version of the B58 although I don't think a hotted-up version of the B58 is likely since I don't see this in any other BMW and to create a hotted-up B58 for just one application seems very unlikely.

The only thing about this is that A70 mentioned the Supra MKV GRMN project is being done entirely in-house by the Gazoo Racing division and Toyota Motorsports Germany. No other detail as to what may be new or just re-engineered and tuned differently but that might support an entirely GR/TMG modified B58D that is exclusive to the Supra MKV GRMN only for much lower volume production.

It's entirely possible that the way it might work is that select finished MKV 3.0's would be pulled from the main assembly line after finishing and modified after the fact in Japan. Many car companies have used this strategy in the past for limited production special editions. I believe this is also what Subaru Technica International does with their "S" cars.

My thinking on that may be entirely wrong but special edition models have been done that way for decades. For instance: Kar Kraft's work on '69-'70 Mustang Boss 429's and Shelby American's work to create the 1965-1968 GT350/500's from just-produced Mustangs with the basic option packaged they needed to start the process with. Same with just-produced 1987 Buick Grand Nationals being sent to ASC-McLaren for all the modifications needed to create a few hundred GNXs out of those standard cars.

Granted things have become FAR more complicated today but there's no reason this isn't a possible general approach that Toyota's GR is taking with the GRMN Supra.

Although... that DME image with the Supra illustration is the first suggestion that an S58 might actually be a thing. Very interesting. If an S58 is in the MKV's future then I think it would have to be a shared engine with the Z4.

I agree with the coronavirus concerns though. Hopefully this passion project will still be able to go through and hang through all of the A90's production run.

 

[justbake]

Although... that DME image with the Supra illustration is the first suggestion that an S58 might actually be a thing. Very interesting. If an S58 is in the MKV's future then I think it would have to be a shared engine with the Z4.

Even if the S58 is going in the Supra, I don't think we will see a high performance Z4 since there is no high performance Boxster.

 

[supraboi]

Even if the S58 is going in the Supra, I don't think we will see a high performance Z4 since there is no high performance Boxster.

I believe BMW has said there wouldn't be much of a market for a "Z4 M".

 

[KahnBB6]

So does this mean that the Supra MKV might be allowed a major drivetrain configuration that the Z4 does not have to also share? If so that would be huge.

 

[CarGuy11]

Even if the S58 is going in the Supra, I don't think we will see a high performance Z4 since there is no high performance Boxster.

The 6cyl Boxster Spyder is the performance model.

 

[kappa_md]

Toyota will definitely make a one off or limited production of the GRMN or high performance version Supra. You just need to take a look and get cues from the little brother, 86. There were two lines that evolved in-house from the Toyota 86.
Launched in 2013. They made the TRD Griffon 86. Time attack performance. Sub-minute at Tsukuba Circuit. After that came limited editions, 14R-60 86 (track) and the 14R 86 (street), albeit only in Japan.

Another line is the GRMN 86. Launched in 2015. Limited 100 units. High performance for circuit. Honed in the “Green Hell” Then it had the GR 86 and the GR Sport 86 versions.

Both of these performance lines were made in Toyota’s Motamichi Factory where the LFA was also born or developed in TMG (and not in Subaru’s plant where production and volume units are made)

Both the 86 and Supra are Tada-san’s boys so we can all expect and hope for an all out Supra version made by Toyota, hopefully soon. Not entirely sure if it needs to have the BMW sourced S58 engine or tweaked version of the B58. Race engine builder Stephan Papadakis has already rebuilt the engine with more than 1000hp and remember, he is Toyota USA factory backed.

 

[justbake]

The 6cyl Boxster Spyder is the performance model.

I was referring to a GT4 model which would compete with a theoretical S58 Z4.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

Awful translation from Google.

https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/127683

■ Supra GRMN (scheduled for debut in November 2021)
-There is also a GRMN model in Supra that will be strengthened by full-scale tuning by GAZOO Racing!

　Supra, which made its debut in May last year after a 17-year hiatus, has three models: the SZ with a 197ps 2L turbo, the SZ-R with a 258ps 2L turbo, and the RZ with a 340ps 3L turbo. Introduced in grade.

　In particular, orders are concentrated on the highest grade "RZ", and it is popular that the delivery time is said to be from half a year to one year, but Supra is adopted as "BMW M340i x Drive" as a further higher grade There is information to add a 387ps 3L straight 6 turbo mounted vehicle.

　That is not all. Furthermore, the "evolution model" by GAZOO Racing will be in production in 2021.

The GR series comes in three types, from the one with the lowest tuning level, GR Sport, GR, and GRMN, but Supra has the strongest GRMN available.

　The tuning is not only lightweight but also strengthens the body and suspension, and the engine can be handed. The engine was changed from normal to the same 340ps 3L straight 6 turbo as the M340i.

　Furthermore, with GRMN tuning, it is expected that it will eventually power up to near 400ps.
The picture is a 3L turbo of RZ, but GRMN is tuned based on a powerful engine of 380ps
■ Supra GRMN Expected specifications
Length x Width x Height: 4410mm x 1880mm x 1285mm
Wheelbase: 2470mm
Vehicle weight: 1370kg
Engine: In-line 6-cylinder DOHC 3L + Turbo
maximum output: 395ps / 5800rpm
Maximum torque: 52.0kgm / 1800-5000rpm
Expected price: 8 million to 9 million yen

 

[kappa_md]

Awful translation from Google.

https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/127683

GRMN will be using a tuned version of the 382ps 2021 GR Supra B58M30O engine going to a healthy >400ps with more rigidity & lightweight components as expected (vs the 2020 GR Supra B58B30C engine making 335ps stock) As always, too much boost and over-tuning it to the limit will almost always loses the over-all reliability.

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