What It Would Take to Give the 2020 Toyota Supra the Manual Gearbox It Deserves

2JZ-No-Sh*t

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https://jalopnik.com/what-it-would-take-to-give-the-2020-toyota-supra-the-ma-1832173633

What It Would Take to Give the 2020 Toyota Supra the Manual Gearbox It Deserves

Despite years of hype, the 2020 Toyota Supra comes with one major crushing disappointment: It’s only only available with an eight-speed automatic transmission. While we shouldn’t hold our breath for a manual Supra since no concrete plans have been shared, we can dig into the BMW parts catalog to see whether a manual swap would be possible.

The easiest path to our manual swap might be to look at the European spec 2019 BMW Z4 2.0i, which will be available with a manual transmission.

While that transmission is not a good choice for the Supra since it only comes mated to the four-cylinder engine, and in the U.S. market the Supra is six-cylinder only for now, the surrounding components can be useful.

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BMW 340i Shift Knob and Trim

One of the bigger pieces in doing a manual swap may have already been taken care of by BMW, as the manual version of the Z4 appears to use the exact same firewall as the Supra. This means that even though the Supra is not available with the manual, all the mounting points for a clutch pedal and clutch master cylinder should already be present.

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BMW Z4 and Supra Firewall. Part no: 41 11 7 479 621

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BMW Z4 Clutch Pedal and Brake Assembly. Part no: 35 00 6 873 116

Using the same firewall between cars is not unusual, especially in the case of BMW, as the E46 M3 had provisions for a clutch pedal even in the SMG version. Since we know that the Z4 clutch pedal and master cylinder will mount to the car, they can be ordered from European BMW dealers once the parts become available to solve that part of the equation.

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BMW Z4 Master and Slave Clutch Cylinders. Parts no: 21 52 6 876 370 and 21 52 6 795 711

The hydraulics that lead from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder can also be used and will likely mount in the Supra the same way that they mount in the Z4 so no custom lines should be required. The pieces are also very similar to the ones used on the last-gen 340i here in the U.S. so those could likely be also made to fit with some modifications.

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GS6-4BZ 6-Speed Manual Transmission. Part no: 23 00 7 643 881

That leads us into the next portion of the swap, which is choosing the right gearbox. Our answer may come from the 340i as it uses a variant of the same B58 3.0L engine and is available with a manual. The bellhousing pattern on the 340i engine and the Supra engine appears to be the same so the six-speed manual GS6-4BZ gearbox should bolt right up.

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BMW 340i Clutch Set. Part no: 21 20 8 631 999

While this is the best available choice at the moment, it is important to note that the Supra produces 33 more lb-ft of torque than the Euro-spec 340i. While it should be within the tolerance range of that gearbox, this is something to bear in mind.

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BMW 340i Shifter Linkage Prts

Supplementary pieces for the transmission such as the linkages and shifter can be grabbed from the 340i as they will bolt up directly to that gearbox but they may require some customization to be set at the correct length to match up to the shifter hole in the cabin. Alternatively, a Z4 shifter and linkages can be combined with the parts to minimize the fabrication once they are available for purchase.

The rest of the hardware, such as the driveshaft, will probably have to be customized since the new gearbox will most likely not be the same length but that part can be taken care of by most driveshaft shops for a few hundred dollars.

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The only unknown piece of the swap right now is the electronics, since the ECU in the Supra will be looking for an automatic transmission and will go into a limp once it doesn’t find one. But luckily, there is precedent for that modification as well. Since the Supra uses a standard BMW ECU, or DME as they call it, the coding for the transmission should be editable. Once tuners are able to access it, the automatic transmission settings can be removed.

Based on these pieces in the parts catalog it appears that a manual swap will be a fairly straightforward proposition on the Supra. I am sure that we’ll see some swapped cars fairly quickly after they start deliveries.
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KahnBB6

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Good article!

Tada-san and at least one other engineer were interviewed confirming a manual version of the Supra exists at least in prototype form and that it's intended to be sold in Japan and Australia (the wording of the answer from the other guy made it difficult to understand if it he was only referring to RHD or to all markets).

Seems that Toyota did leave everything on the table in this case. The question really is: are they going to actually listen to the demand from LHD customers and homologate the manual 6cyl version beyond Japan, Australia and any other shoo-in RHD markets?

If they're already planning to sell such a version in Japan... they had better do it here too.
 

Jeff Lange

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Glad the Z4 part numbers are now known. Fills in most of the gaps I was hoping it would. A console for the Supra would be nice. I certainly wouldn't be wanting to convert to a Z4 console I don't think.

Good, good.

Jeff
 

SupraFiend

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That Jalopnick article kinda glossed over the hardest part. That's a lot of assumptions right there about being able to write manual transmission code to the mk5 ecu from another ecu. I'm not sure this will ever work like a factory car with everything working the way you'd want. Also the cost would be pretty brutal. To buy one of these for 50k, then to order all that shit new from a BMW dealer and source a tranny, then figure out the electronics. Would be a 60k+ car pretty quick. But all reports suggest the real thing is on the way, let's hope no one has to actually go through with this.
 

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That Jalopnick article kinda glossed over the hardest part. That's a lot of assumptions right there about being able to write manual transmission code to the mk5 ecu from another ecu. I'm not sure this will ever work like a factory car with everything working the way you'd want. Also the cost would be pretty brutal. To buy one of these for 50k, then to order all that shit new from a BMW dealer and source a tranny, then figure out the electronics. Would be a 60k+ car pretty quick. But all reports suggest the real thing is on the way, let's hope no one has to actually go through with this.
GRMN pricing is at -80K,apparently
 

Jeff Lange

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Regarding the ECU and console, a manual is likely for the GRMN Supra. Adding to that the likelihood that it will still be using a B58, we will find ourselves with a publicly-available ECU/DME that exists for the Supra with a B58 and a manual. Pulling that factory software and calibration from a GRMN car and (assuming they use the same ECU) loading it onto an automatic Supra with a manual swap may possibly provide everything needed to convert non-GRMN cars into proper manual transmission models.

I assume people will probably try to swap it earlier, and have various amounts of success. Many of the parts needed exist today, I hope it's done well, I know what it takes to do something like this and it can be done properly or it can be done shoddily.

Jeff
 
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Kleanish

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That Jalopnick article kinda glossed over the hardest part. That's a lot of assumptions right there about being able to write manual transmission code to the mk5 ecu from another ecu. I'm not sure this will ever work like a factory car with everything working the way you'd want. Also the cost would be pretty brutal. To buy one of these for 50k, then to order all that shit new from a BMW dealer and source a tranny, then figure out the electronics. Would be a 60k+ car pretty quick. But all reports suggest the real thing is on the way, let's hope no one has to actually go through with this.
Regardind the ECU and console, a manual is likely for the GRMN Supra. Adding to that the likelihood that it will still be using a B58, we will find ourselves with a publicly-available ECU/DME that exists for the Supra with a B58 and a manual. Pulling that factory software and calibration from a GRMN car and (assuming they use the same ECU) loading it onto an automatic Supra with a manual swap may possibly provide everything needed to convert non-GRMN cars into proper manual transmission models.

I assume people will probably try to swap it earlier, and have various amounts of success. Many of the parts needed exist today, I hope it's done well, I know what it takes to do something like this and it can be done properly or it can be done shoddily.

Jeff
Yup and could sell the automatic for a decent chunk of change.
 

Pheonix

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What would it take? Initial sales. If the thing sells well, then they would bring out a manual next year. Plain and simple. All depends on how the public, press and enthusiasts embrace the car.
 

Pheonix

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GRMN pricing is at -80K,apparently
For that price the thing better run circles around cars like a ZL1 1LE, GT350, TTRS, Corvette Gran Sport, Cayman GTS, M3/M4, C63 AMG. And it better come with more than 330hp.
 

sedanlova

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I believe Toyota will bring in manual transmission with the 6-cylinder variant. Only time can tell, and depends on the reception of the car at launch.
The reception of this car at launch is related to Toyota's decisions on the car:
  • BMW Partnership
  • No details on Toyota implications on the development of chassis, engine, etc
  • Unknown realibility due to partnership
  • No details on engine, turbo capabilities
  • Prices taking into account the reality of different markets
  • Marketing strategy
  • Dealers mark ups
The name plate has been famous for a long while now...some people are buyers only because of this and, I feel Toyota is being over confident about it.
 

Philipangoo

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Unfortunately one of the key reasons manual will exist in those markets is because people actually buy them. If you have ever been to Japan literally the only automatic cars I saw were luxury sedans and mini vans. Everything else was manual. BMW on their M cars is even going away from manuals.

It costs money to do all the safety tests, crash tests, standardization for NA markets since tests have to be done for both manual and auto transmissions. It’s a huge reason why companies like Audi don’t bring a lot of their cooler variants and manual cars over to the states.

Seems that Toyota did leave everything on the table in this case. The question really is: are they going to actually listen to the demand from LHD customers and homologate the manual 6cyl version beyond Japan, Australia and any other shoo-in RHD markets?

If they're already planning to sell such a version in Japan... they had better do it here too.
 

AsupramkvC

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The reception of this car at launch is related to Toyota's decisions on the car:
  • BMW Partnership
  • No details on Toyota implications on the development of chassis, engine, etc
  • Unknown realibility due to partnership
  • No details on engine, turbo capabilities
  • Prices taking into account the reality of different markets
  • Marketing strategy
  • Dealers mark ups
The name plate has been famous for a long while now...some people are buyers only because of this and, I feel Toyota is being over confident about it.
The hype will definitely make a lot of people buy the Supra. Toyota has been aggressively marketing the Supra. Being an enthusiast car, though, I know and I believe they will bring out the manual version sooner than later. We just have to wait.....and keep waiting a little more. For sure the wait will be shorter than the 7 endless years we’ve waited for this new generation Supra to arrive. :drive:

In fact, we’re still waiting since the Supra hasn’t been officially available just yet. :rofl:
 
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SupraFiend

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What would it take? Initial sales. If the thing sells well, then they would bring out a manual next year. Plain and simple. All depends on how the public, press and enthusiasts embrace the car.
Would it though? I would think feedback and reviews will influence it more as sales could actually be very weak because of the lack of manual. If they do some market research and find out that there is a huge percentage of buyers waiting for a manual version, they may be more likely to do it.

Not that I'm implying we should boycott the car till they give us one (but I personally would never buy an auto supra).
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