Why I'm NOT Hyped About The New Toyota Supra

[SS900]

I wonder if, somewhere out there, there's a McLaren F1 forum with everyone having a shitfit because it's a BMW engine

Or somewhere with the Audi R8/Lambo V10

Or Aston Martin/AMG

Not pointed at anyone in particular, but I find it's good perspective.

I’ll tell you what, put one of the engines you just mentioned in the new Supra and i’ll Have no issues with it. There a big difference in your comparisons. A Z4 engine in a Supra is just not impressive, sorry.

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[SS900]

I wonder if, somewhere out there, there's a McLaren F1 forum with everyone having a shitfit because it's a BMW engine

Or somewhere with the Audi R8/Lambo V10

Or Aston Martin/AMG

Not pointed at anyone in particular, but I find it's good perspective.

would you feel the same way if each of those cars had a twin made by the engine manufacturer? It would hurt those supercars and they won’t be as desirable. You got to learn to compare apples to apples my friend.

 

[adprokid]

I wonder if it will say BMW on the A90’s engine anywhere. There is a very good chance it will.

I hope so

 

[MA617M]

well, at this stage, it is apples/apples.

at this stage, we know that the Z4/A90 aren't twins

we have reason to believe that the engine in the Z4 is not going to be identical (in hardware or software) to that in the Z4.

if when more information comes to light, I am wrong, so be it. I will be disappointed if the A90 has a plain jane B58. Similarly, if the Z4 has the "Toyota" spec engine, I'll also be disappointed. differentiation is cool, but in the end, there's no business case for it like there was in the past.

But at this stage, we have no reason to believe that the cars will be twins (86/BRZ they aren't). the only evidence we have is straight from the CE's mouth.

similarly, the audi R8 and lambo huracan/gallardo are going to be about as "twins" as the A90 and Z4. The A90 is not a supercar and exclusivity is not a requirement of success. It's a sportscar with porsche capabilities, for the masses, with a throwback to some of the cool things the A80 had.

And the Supra has always had a sister car - the Soarer. (Z10, Z20, Z30 etc) With Lexus being so divergent from Toyota in direction these days, that internal 'sister car' was just never going to happen.

It just so happens that this time the sister car is a BMW.

in the end, it would have ultimately been a choice between no A90, or one with a partnership for development.

I'd rather have one than not. Anyone who would rather not have had one has either never driven any previous supra or simply fuelled by moronic, no-name ignorant youtube bloggers.

 

[PerformanceSound]

I’ll tell you what, put one of the engines you just mentioned in the new Supra and i’ll Have no issues with it. There a big difference in your comparisons. A Z4 engine in a Supra is just not impressive, sorry.

He’s got a very good point. I agree with him on this, I don’t think it’s so much that it’s a BMW engine, I think it’s more about the legendary Supra sharing a platform with an non-legendary Z4. The Z4 has historically been a “candy wrapper car”....you use it for a bit and it’s useless and on its way to the scrap yard. Can’t say that about a Supra, and so to face the reality that a Supra will potentially share the same drivetrain with a Z4 is somewhat uneasy to take in...especially us diehard fans. Yes, a McLaren has a BMW engine, but what other BMW has that same engine they used in the McLaren F1? Right?

 

[aeronSUPRAco]

He’s got a very good point. I agree with him on this, I don’t think it’s so much that it’s a BMW engine, I think it’s more about the legendary Supra sharing a platform with an non-legendary Z4. The Z4 has historically been a “candy wrapper car”....you use it for a bit and it’s useless and on its way to the scrap yard. Can’t say that about a Supra, and so to face the reality that a Supra will potentially share the same drivetrain with a Z4 is somewhat uneasy to take in...especially us diehard fans. Yes, a McLaren has a BMW engine, but what other BMW has that same engine they used in the McLaren F1? Right?

IMO, that’s why Toyota brought back Tada-san out of retirement to guide the Supra project. It will be Tada-san who will be able to make all these differences. I don’t really care much about BMW’s new Z4, but I believe it will improve in all aspects as well. Supra, on the other hand, will be a modern(and better) version of the MkIV.

 

[aeronSUPRAco]

Old vs. New. I’ll go with the old NSX, GTR, and new Supra.

 

[MA617M]

He’s got a very good point. I agree with him on this, I don’t think it’s so much that it’s a BMW engine, I think it’s more about the legendary Supra sharing a platform with an non-legendary Z4. The Z4 has historically been a “candy wrapper car”....you use it for a bit and it’s useless and on its way to the scrap yard. Can’t say that about a Supra, and so to face the reality that a Supra will potentially share the same drivetrain with a Z4 is somewhat uneasy to take in...especially us diehard fans. Yes, a McLaren has a BMW engine, but what other BMW has that same engine they used in the McLaren F1? Right?

I do see your point. I don't view it the same, but that's fine.

I guess I see it as a 'BMW sourced, Toyota-spec'ed" engine - based purely on what the forum insiders have told us. Having plenty of experience with BMW inline sixes - I am perfectly ok with this. I would have been more disappointed with a V6, even if of Toyota origin.

Again, if the engine ends up being a B58 cut and paste from a M240i... who wouldn't be a little disappointed?... Even if it is amazing, and great, and lives up to everything the A80 blah blah blah. That emotional aspect needs this car (I am a supra diehard, I've had 7 of them? 8? I have lost count.) to be something a little special.

Plus, A70 hinted at it not even being a B58 derivative. Perhaps it's an S55 derivative? The earliest mules did have the S55...

How would people feel knowing the Supra had a "toyota-ified" BMW M3 engine, rather than a plain jane B58? Feels much more special to me than a B58.

Just my two cents, and I'm going to stop there before adding more blogging crap to an already polluted thread lol

 

[aeronSUPRAco]

Fact? When is now? I can think of a few that have seen and been in the MKV during it's time as a mule/proto, not just here recently; that post here or are part of the MKIV community.

Some of you guys actually need to read these threads, before just having diarrhea of the mind/fingers, just to post something. We can all read, if we have something that is beneficial, we post it, but some of these comments, FFS.

I was skeptical about the new Supra, but people that have some actual real world experience or know people in the know, have made me gather my thoughts. My only gripe is the manual, but that hasn't been killed off, so there's some hope.

Most old cars used to have manual. Most modern cars now have automatic transmission. Even the high end cars, most of their offering are in AT. Only a few manufacturers offer MT on their high end sports cars like BMW, and Porsche. AT has become faster and more efficient than MT. Of course there are enthusiasts still wanting to row their own gears; but there are more cons than pros. There’s no business case to make MT as the market is small, unless customers would be willing to pay a premium for it to happen. But still, it would be great to have a choice whether AT or MT.

 

[EDub]

He’s got a very good point. I agree with him on this, I don’t think it’s so much that it’s a BMW engine, I think it’s more about the legendary Supra sharing a platform with an non-legendary Z4. The Z4 has historically been a “candy wrapper car”....you use it for a bit and it’s useless and on its way to the scrap yard. Can’t say that about a Supra, and so to face the reality that a Supra will potentially share the same drivetrain with a Z4 is somewhat uneasy to take in...especially us diehard fans. Yes, a McLaren has a BMW engine, but what other BMW has that same engine they used in the McLaren F1? Right?

True, but as far as the previous supras are concerned the driveline is pretty meh other then the Mk4.

Even though the mkv will be sharing parts with a Z4, I look at it more like, what BMW are both of those cars getting their parts from. Chances are they're more likely going to be M variants or high end models with the power the Mkv is supposed to be putting down. That excites me more then it worries me.

 

[SS900]

well, at this stage, it is apples/apples.

at this stage, we know that the Z4/A90 aren't twins

we have reason to believe that the engine in the Z4 is not going to be identical (in hardware or software) to that in the Z4.

if when more information comes to light, I am wrong, so be it. I will be disappointed if the A90 has a plain jane B58. Similarly, if the Z4 has the "Toyota" spec engine, I'll also be disappointed. differentiation is cool, but in the end, there's no business case for it like there was in the past.

But at this stage, we have no reason to believe that the cars will be twins (86/BRZ they aren't). the only evidence we have is straight from the CE's mouth.

similarly, the audi R8 and lambo huracan/gallardo are going to be about as "twins" as the A90 and Z4. The A90 is not a supercar and exclusivity is not a requirement of success. It's a sportscar with porsche capabilities, for the masses, with a throwback to some of the cool things the A80 had.

And the Supra has always had a sister car - the Soarer. (Z10, Z20, Z30 etc) With Lexus being so divergent from Toyota in direction these days, that internal 'sister car' was just never going to happen.

It just so happens that this time the sister car is a BMW.

in the end, it would have ultimately been a choice between no A90, or one with a partnership for development.

I'd rather have one than not. Anyone who would rather not have had one has either never driven any previous supra or simply fuelled by moronic, no-name ignorant youtube bloggers.

This is all speculation at best, nothing official from Toyota to back up anything you are saying. Leave that part to when real info is revealed. I still don’t think you understand what apples to apples even mean. It’s ok.

 

[SS900]

How great would it feel taking out your A90 and be just like any other BMW out there with that exact or very similar engine? Why is no one getting this? Taking out the A80 for a spin was and still is special every single time. I am just not getting the same vibe from the A90. It looks great, I am sure it will handle great but a grandpa in his 5 series parked next to me will remind me every single time it’s just a tuned bmw with a Toyota badge.

Whatever I can do to the A90 that grandpa can do to his 5 series. Yay, i’ll have the edge on him in the handling department. It’s just sad. Maybe if I was younger I could fool myself to believe I am driving something special. It’s like fake tits, they are nice to look at and play with when you are young and stupid but there is no substitution to the real thing. (That last part was just a joke, please let’s not get into real tits vs fake tits unless you provide pics to make your points)

 

[Nurburgring]

Whatever I can do to the A90 that grandpa can do to his 5 series. Yay, i’ll have the edge on him in the handling department. It’s just sad.

No, what’s really sad is that you have to keep regurgitating your hate for the A90. First time in a bazillion years on forums I’m adding someone to the ignore list.

 

[PerformanceSound]

How great would it feel taking out your A90 and be just like any other BMW out there with that exact or very similar engine? Why is no one getting this? Taking out the A80 for a spin was and still is special every single time. I am just not getting the same vibe from the A90. It looks great, I am sure it will handle great but a grandpa in his 5 series parked next to me will remind me every single time it’s just a tuned bmw with a Toyota badge.

Whatever I can do to the A90 that grandpa can do to his 5 series. Yay, i’ll have the edge on him in the handling department. It’s just sad. Maybe if I was younger I could fool myself to believe I am driving something special. It’s like fake tits, they are nice to look at and play with when you are young and stupid but there is no substitution to the real thing. (That last part was just a joke, please let’s not get into real tits vs fake tits unless you provide pics to make your points)

In all fairness to the reputable folks on this forum, we should probably wait for more concrete info before assuming it will be an identical car. I too believe it will be a "cookie-cutter car", sharing 90% of the Z4's components (not the other way around)...but, I should probably reserve judgement until the hard facts are out in public. A BMW manufactured Toyota engineered motor would be a god-send, but I just can't see that being financially possible. However, forged BMW straight sixes have proven to be demons on the streets...so maybe a beefed up variant of an existing BMW inline six? I dunno...all I'm saying is we are certainly entitled to our own opinions on this matter, but I think to be fair we should wait until more hard info is available before assuming too much. Let it be 1000HP capable on stock bottom-end, with a beefy rear end, and bulletproof transmission...then you will have my attention Toyota.

 

[SVHO]

How great would it feel taking out your A90 and be just like any other BMW out there with that exact or very similar engine? Why is no one getting this? Taking out the A80 for a spin was and still is special every single time. I am just not getting the same vibe from the A90. It looks great, I am sure it will handle great but a grandpa in his 5 series parked next to me will remind me every single time it’s just a tuned bmw with a Toyota badge.

Whatever I can do to the A90 that grandpa can do to his 5 series. Yay, i’ll have the edge on him in the handling department. It’s just sad. Maybe if I was younger I could fool myself to believe I am driving something special. It’s like fake tits, they are nice to look at and play with when you are young and stupid but there is no substitution to the real thing. (That last part was just a joke, please let’s not get into real tits vs fake tits unless you provide pics to make your points)

Great input. I agree with you.

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