2020 Supra Transmission Chat - Manual, Dual Clutch, or Auto?

[mkivalex]

I hope they are just teasing us. I don't know how they can say a manual is not important to Supra owners. The V160 was just as legendary as the 2JZ

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[Craigy]

That's really surprising considering the pricepoint and target market.

However, when you figure that they're likely using the same market research team that greenlighted the auto slushbox only option on cars like the ISF, RCF, etc., it's no surprise at all.

If we were talking about a dual clutch-only car, that makes sense when looking at trends upmarket. But again, at this price point, many buyers still want a manual. And no legitimate sportscar company that wants to be taken seriously only offers an old school slushbox automatic as their only option.

 

[Jeff Lange]

My main concern is that if there's no 3.0 + Manual config in any car, then fooling the ECU that the auto trans is fine after swapping it for a manual will be a bit of a challenge. With the rapid development of aftermarket CANBUS translators though, I'm sure it won't be too much of an issue, given enough time and money.

Yeah, for this specific purpose, I'm really hoping that the same engine setup and ECU are the same for the Z4 and Supra, allowing the use of a Z4 ECU and some wiring modifications and be good to go. Still, I was able to get my IS350 6MT setup working... I feel like it should be possible. The B58 (if that's what the Supra gets) has a manual transmission in the M240i and others, so the mechanical bits will exist at least. It would just be nice to have off the shelf components like a driveshaft, pedals, hydraulics, etc.

Jeff

 

[Gecko]

Surprising to me because at one point, I read that the take rate on manuals for the BR-Z/FR-S/86 was like 51-53%. Within the last 2 years, Tada was quoted as saying that any Toyota sports car would have a manual transmission because of the driver experience. I can't find the article now...

 

[Guff]

That's really surprising considering the pricepoint and target market.

However, when you figure that they're likely using the same market research team that greenlighted the auto slushbox only option on cars like the ISF, RCF, etc., it's no surprise at all.

If we were talking about a dual clutch-only car, that makes sense when looking at trends upmarket. But again, at this price point, many buyers still want a manual. And no legitimate sportscar company that wants to be taken seriously only offers an old school slushbox automatic as their only option.

Well for what it's worth, Alfa Romeo, BMW (sans M3/4), Aston Martin, Bentley, Jaguar, and Maserati all use the ZF 8HP almost exclusively in their sports cars.

But no manual still sucks ass.

 

[johnny_10196]

Surprising to me because at one point, I read that the take rate on manuals for the BR-Z/FR-S/86 was like 51-53%. Within the last 2 years, Tada was quoted as saying that any Toyota sports car would have a manual transmission because of the driver experience. I can't find the article now...

Yup, I think we both read the same article. It says all 3 Toyota sports car will be RWD and fun to drive and that they weren't going to be chasing lap time like with the GT-R.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

What fans has he been talking too? Someone needs to point him to our poll.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/how-would-you-build-your-supra.749/

 

[MA617M]

Without a manual, the auto will need to be visceral. The slushboxes in the euro muscle C63 and M3 etc are good, but not for a sports car. Suits the C63 well.... but if I imagine that trans in my JZA80.... ewww

 

[Blupra]

I hate to say it, but we can't really be surprised as all the rumors were pointing in this direction. As to why this is the case, I'd like somebody to grill Tada-San a little more about it. Specifically, is this from the input of the various meetings they had with Supra and 86 owners, or was this decided through some other means of market research?

I would assume market research from that segment, because it was already an auto by the time they started asking me a bunch of questions.

That said, you'd have to get an answer from Tada etc to be definitive.

I hope they are just teasing us. I don't know how they can say a manual is not important to Supra owners. The V160 was just as legendary as the 2JZ

That's really surprising considering the pricepoint and target market.

However, when you figure that they're likely using the same market research team that greenlighted the auto slushbox only option on cars like the ISF, RCF, etc., it's no surprise at all.

If we were talking about a dual clutch-only car, that makes sense when looking at trends upmarket. But again, at this price point, many buyers still want a manual. And no legitimate sportscar company that wants to be taken seriously only offers an old school slushbox automatic as their only option.

Surprising to me because at one point, I read that the take rate on manuals for the BR-Z/FR-S/86 was like 51-53%. Within the last 2 years, Tada was quoted as saying that any Toyota sports car would have a manual transmission because of the driver experience. I can't find the article now...

I was quoting above to ask if anyone knew the manual take rate on the FRS-BRZ-86 is... can someone confirm it’s close to 50%?

I assume the same type of buyer. If the take rate was 10% I could understand not offering it, but if it’s 50%, that’s just Toyota not listening to their current and potential buyers!!!

 

[Blupra]

so am I the only one still hoping for a back seat?

^ Yes, still hoping, though I don’t think we’ll see one.

 

[Guff]

I was quoting above to ask if anyone knew the manual take rate on the FRS-BRZ-86 is... can someone confirm it’s close to 50%?

I assume the same type of buyer. If the take rate was 10% I could understand not offering it, but if it’s 50%, that’s just Toyota not listening to their current and potential buyers!!!

I can't confirm with any data, but 50% was definitely what I read last as well.

 

[MA617M]

Check interior pics, 100% NO ROOM for back seat. rear bulkhead sits about half way up driver's seat

 

[Guff]

Check interior pics, 100% NO ROOM for back seat. rear bulkhead sits about half way up driver's seat

Yup, fuel tank is gonna be right there, squished in between the seats and the rear axle. Definitely no backseats happening.

 

[HKz]

I hate to say it, but we can't really be surprised as all the rumors were pointing in this direction. As to why this is the case, I'd like somebody to grill Tada-San a little more about it. Specifically, is this from the input of the various meetings they had with Supra and 86 owners, or was this decided through some other means of market research?

...indeed, this is very strange coming from him especially after all he said with the GT86. It is one thing for him to say the potentially smaller percentage of manual enthusiasts wasn't worth the extra development costs but it is another to claim it isn't necessary to have one in a performance car, especially one that is shaping up to be behind on outright power in its class like the 86....personally I think he is forced to say this to appease their board in order force feed consumers into thinking this way...

My main concern is that if there's no 3.0 + Manual config in any car, then fooling the ECU that the auto trans is fine after swapping it for a manual will be a bit of a challenge. With the rapid development of aftermarket CANBUS translators though, I'm sure it won't be too much of an issue, given enough time and money.

Will be sad tearing into the console iDrive and the BMW shifter will probably be sitting next to each other with no natural space for a stick.

 

[Guff]

Will be sad tearing into the console iDrive and the BMW shifter will probably be sitting next to each other with no natural space for a stick.

Nothing an angle grinder can't fix!

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