Just Curious - B58 vs 2J

[mk5_ricola]

I'm just genuinely curious, no hate.

Some spend some $60,000 - 100,000 on mods to push 1,000+ HP on a 2J.

With that much money I can rebuild a entire Mk5 powertrain to probably make more no?

What makes the 2J that much more special? Maybe my idea of the cost of a Mk4 build is incorrect.

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[zrk]

I'm just genuinely curious, no hate.

Some spend some $60,000 - 100,000 on mods to push 1,000+ HP on a 2J.

With that much money I can rebuild a entire Mk5 powertrain to probably make more no?

What makes the 2J that much more special? Maybe my idea of the cost of a Mk4 build is incorrect.

There are current 1,000whp MKVs. 60-100k seems.. high but right for that build.

 

[Cptnslo]

Honestly I’ll say a huge part of it is the sound. The 2J has an incredibly unique sound.

 

[mk5_ricola]

There are current 1,000whp MKVs. 60-100k seems.. high but right for that build.

That's fair.

Honestly I’ll say a huge part of it is the sound. The 2J has an incredibly unique sound.

Very true the sound is special.

 

[reNeglect]

Honestly I’ll say a huge part of it is the sound. The 2J has an incredibly unique sound.

i think a top mount turbo kit and single exit sounds pree good for a modern engine. But yeah 2J and RB26 just sound legendary

 

[zrk]

I much prefer the sound of an RB to a 2J.

 

[YOTA_IL]

What’s a 2J?

 

[mk5_ricola]

What’s a 2J?

Slang for "slow"

 

[Guff]

100k to build a 2J? Honestly I'm having trouble even trying to imagine how to spend that much. Even a billet block is only 12-14k, and with everything else top-tier, you'd be hard pressed to crest 40k when its all said and done.

I built a 700whp Supra for about 8k in parts, machining, etc. It was abused for years and had nary an issue.

Nobody (realistically) is spending 6 figures building a 2JZ outside of a pro racing environment.

The 2JZ is a good motor, its also an old motor. The aftermarket is well developed, but there is little innovation.

The B58 is a new motor, very technologically advanced, and still has plenty on the table for development.

Will people start swapping old chassis' with B58s like they do 2JZs? Maybe? But not anytime soon because B58s and their accessories are still too expensive. Economy of scale hasn't caught up to it, and to run it at an OE level requires top notch engine management, which is additional cost on top.

I know the cultural zeitgeist requires us to compare the B58 to the 2JZ, to see if its worthy of a "3JZ" title, but honestly its far too much time gone. 30 years of technology have made these engines so different that they just simply serve different purposes, both good in their own rights.

Now, If Toyota made a 3JZ, it absolutely wouldn't be like the B58. Not because it would be better or worse, but because Toyota's engine design philosophy is different. It would have D4S, it would probably be square, it wouldn't use Valvetronic. Again, not better or worse, just different. But we got what we got, and its a good motor, so let's enjoy it.

 

[mk5_ricola]

100k to build a 2J? Honestly I'm having trouble even trying to imagine how to spend that much. Even a billet block is only 12-14k, and with everything else top-tier, you'd be hard pressed to crest 40k when its all said and done.

I built a 700whp Supra for about 8k in parts, machining, etc. It was abused for years and had nary an issue.

Nobody (realistically) is spending 6 figures building a 2JZ outside of a pro racing environment.

The 2JZ is a good motor, its also an old motor. The aftermarket is well developed, but there is little innovation.

The B58 is a new motor, very technologically advanced, and still has plenty on the table for development.

Will people start swapping old chassis' with B58s like they do 2JZs? Maybe? But not anytime soon because B58s and their accessories are still too expensive. Economy of scale hasn't caught up to it, and to run it at an OE level requires top notch engine management, which is additional cost on top.

I know the cultural zeitgeist requires us to compare the B58 to the 2JZ, to see if its worthy of a "3JZ" title, but honestly its far too much time gone. 30 years of technology have made these engines so different that they just simply serve different purposes, both good in their own rights.

Now, If Toyota made a 3JZ, it absolutely wouldn't be like the B58. Not because it would be better or worse, but because Toyota's engine design philosophy is different. It would have D4S, it would probably be square, it wouldn't use Valvetronic. Again, not better or worse, just different. But we got what we got, and its a good motor, so let's enjoy it.

Yeah I can't imagine spending that much. I was watching this one video and he said he was well over $100k in mods: youtube

$100k in mods and I can build you a 1,600 whp Prius haha.

Absolutely both are great motors, I love em both. I just never understood how so many say the B58 could never match the 2JZ when I see people pushing 650-700 wheel on pure turbos which don't cost more than a full exhaust system.

 

[zrk]

$100k in mods and I can build you a 1,600 whp Prius haha.

I mean, the chassis isn't important if we're going in that direction. You can throw an LS in anything for < 20k.

 

[zrk]

650-700 wheel on pure turbos which don't cost more than a full exhaust system.

Ehh.. Reliably getting 650+ requires at least 12-15k. You can just slap a pure on it and get that much power. You need supporting fuel, port for example. Then axles, trans, and some decent tires if you wanna put that power down.

 

[XtremeMaC]

Yeah I can't imagine spending that much. I was watching this one video and he said he was well over $100k in mods: youtube

$100k in mods and I can build you a 1,600 whp Prius haha.

Absolutely both are great motors, I love em both. I just never understood how so many say the B58 could never match the 2JZ when I see people pushing 650-700 wheel on pure turbos which don't cost more than a full exhaust system.

Well 2JZ proved itself to be bulletproof pushing 1000+ whp mostly with factory guts, easily took on Italian and German exotics. Saying is out there because it's legendary engine and people don't want a German engine besting it... It's a master art piece or a milestone. Kindda like Windows XP

 

[mk5_ricola]

I mean, the chassis isn't important if we're going in that direction. You throw throw an LS in anything for < 20k.

Yeah his $100k probably replaced almost every stock part of that powertrain and suspension.

Ehh.. Reliably getting 650+ requires at least 12-15k. You can just slap a pure on it and get that much power. You need supporting fuel, port for example. Then axles, trans, and some decent tires if you wanna put that power down.

Yeah you're right, would definitely need to rebuild that transmission and some meth or E.

Axles, send it till they snap

 

[mk5_ricola]

Well 2JZ proved itself to be bulletproof pushing 1000+ whp mostly with factory guts, easily took on Italian and German exotics. Saying is out there because it's legendary engine and people don't want a German engine besting it... It's a master art piece or a milestone. Kindda like Windows XP

I actually didn't know they can reach that on mostly factory guts. B58 definitely cannot.

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