Have a look at the Prototype Supra's engine

[justbake]

I was just saying while Toyota will make sure this Iron block will invoke both nostalgia from the mkiv days of throwing insane amounts of power without it blowing up and still be the reliable drivetrain that we expect of a Toyota brand , some people really are picky and wouldn't be happy with the car, even if all the checkmarks were ticked off.

It could be all Toyota, new I6 cast iron, impressive handling and be 55k and somehow, people would complain about the price or say, eh, I might as well get a Lexus or get this car or such and such.

I'm exaggerating but if this new I6 can hold more power than the B58 aluminum block, I'm all for it and can't wait to see it. Plus, people are timid about anything BMW related so a supra product with more Toyota involvement and heavier R&D should suggest a better vehicle.

Oh yeah I see what you're saying, people are definitely too quick to hate.

I don't think Toyota will let this be a let down, especially after spending so much time/money/effort on this project but others do not see it that way

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[PerformanceSound]

It could be all Toyota, new I6 cast iron, impressive handling and be 55k and somehow, people would complain about the price or say, eh, I might as well get a Lexus or get this car or such and such.

I've said it from the beginning (if you all want to look back at my older posts), that I could care less what the body looks like or what chassis they use. I have been a HUGE proponent of Toyota using Toyota drive-trains. Period. The A60/A70/A80 were all special because they were Toyota engineered and built cars. To release a car only to call it a Toyota with absolutely no Toyota components in it, does not make it a Toyota, I don't care how cool it makes someone feel or the "spirit of the Supra is there." I have said from the beginning, that if Toyota develops and incorporates their own drive-train in the MKV Supra, I would seriously consider it. I am not a Supra fanboy, and only really love the MKIV for one reason and one reason only....the MKIV's Toyota drive-train.

 

[justbake]

To release a car only to call it a Toyota with absolutely no Toyota components in it, does not make it a Toyota

You're reaching.

There is absolutely nothing that states everything is made by BMW

 

[HKz]

You're reaching.

There is absolutely nothing that states everything is made by BMW

well considering it is going to be made in Austria at BMW's contractor and it would make absolutely no sense for Toyota to ship parts from Japan think it is fair to say everything will be technically built by BMW...but it still doesn't mean nothing will be developed or engineered by Toyota which is the more important aspect..

 

[Modal170]

I've said it from the beginning (if you all want to look back at my older posts), that I could care less what the body looks like or what chassis they use. I have been a HUGE proponent of Toyota using Toyota drive-trains. Period. The A60/A70/A80 were all special because they were Toyota engineered and built cars. To release a car only to call it a Toyota with absolutely no Toyota components in it, does not make it a Toyota, I don't care how cool it makes someone feel or the "spirit of the Supra is there." I have said from the beginning, that if Toyota develops and incorporates their own drive-train in the MKV Supra, I would seriously consider it. I am not a Supra fanboy, and only really love the MKIV for one reason and one reason only....the MKIV's Toyota drive-train.

Guess we have to wait and see. I was just bringing up the idea that people would find something to nitpick. either Toyota is afraid of what they had gotten themselves into by not releasing a single lick of information after all these years, or they are ready to do a massive pr stunt and show they have full intentions to take out the competition. I would imagine the Le Mans win would be enough of a reason to show they don't take racing lightly or performance cars.

 

[justbake]

well considering it is going to be made in Austria at BMW's contractor and it would make absolutely no sense for Toyota to ship parts from Japan think it is fair to say everything will be technically built by BMW...but it still doesn't mean nothing will be developed or engineered by Toyota which is the more important aspect..

Magna Steyr manufactuers cars for several companies, not just BMW.

With that being said, BMW isnt having all their raw material shipped to them, turned into parts, and then shipped to Austria either

 

[Guff]

Just to level with you guys, I have no idea what motor is going to be in the production car at launch. But I do know, without a doubt, that there is a different motor, made of some type of iron, with a redesigned head, that has made big power, and that has been in development for some time. I have more than enough evidence of this engine's existence from my dealings with Toyota and others.

But what is baffling me now is why many signs point to the production motor being a B58TU of some sort. There is no way that the new motor was scrapped as it looked extremely promising, and no doubt costed a ton of development money. The one thing that sticks out, as A70 mentioned, is us getting the new motor in a GRMN/Special Edition version of the car (of which we have no guarantee/confirmation of getting). And while the B58 no doubt is a competent motor, I begrudgingly have to join the dark side and ask, why not launch the Supra with a new engine that will make a significant impact, assuming it is as thoroughly developed as we've heard it is? It seems asinine to expect early adopters like us to buy a car with an "okay" motor while we wait 2-3 years for the "wow" motor.

Sadly, at this point in time, I struggle to get anything from any Toyota, BMW, or even 3rd party contacts. We're too close to launch perhaps and PR teams are no doubt getting strict about what knowledge goes where. I can't help but feel a bit frustrated with our current situation. As much as I love to put my trust in Toyota, I also know that Toyota USA focuses heavily on the financial aspect of bringing lower production models here, and generally, that ends with us consumers having very few options for cars. I'm just hoping that doesn't mean we miss out on the version of the car that we were all waiting for.

 

[supraboi]

So I have read that the prototype at Goodwood was a US spec model.

Since the 4 cylinder may or may not be coming here, maybe that means the B58TU = 2JZ-GE. Cheaper, gets the job done, and still retains the straight six tradition.
While the new motor/GRMN version will fill in the shoes left by the 2JZ-GTE?

 

[GT-Four]

Just to level with you guys, I have no idea what motor is going to be in the production car at launch. But I do know, without a doubt, that there is a different motor, made of some type of iron, with a redesigned head, that has made big power, and that has been in development for some time. I have more than enough evidence of this engine's existence from my dealings with Toyota and others.

But what is baffling me now is why many signs point to the production motor being a B58TU of some sort. There is no way that the new motor was scrapped as it looked extremely promising, and no doubt costed a ton of development money. The one thing that sticks out, as A70 mentioned, is us getting the new motor in a GRMN/Special Edition version of the car (of which we have no guarantee/confirmation of getting). And while the B58 no doubt is a competent motor, I begrudgingly have to join the dark side and ask, why not launch the Supra with a new engine that will make a significant impact, assuming it is as thoroughly developed as we've heard it is? It seems asinine to expect early adopters like us to buy a car with an "okay" motor while we wait 2-3 years for the "wow" motor.

Sadly, at this point in time, I struggle to get anything from any Toyota, BMW, or even 3rd party contacts. We're too close to launch perhaps and PR teams are no doubt getting strict about what knowledge goes where. I can't help but feel a bit frustrated with our current situation. As much as I love to put my trust in Toyota, I also know that Toyota USA focuses heavily on the financial aspect of bringing lower production models here, and generally, that ends with us consumers having very few options for cars. I'm just hoping that doesn't mean we miss out on the version of the car that we were all waiting for.

Could it not be that this iron block motor developed by Toyota is exactly what we're seeing under that hood? And that it's been designed to work with as many parts from BMW engines as possible so as to reduce overall costs thereby somewhat resembling the B58? To be fair, it would be insanely heavy on costs if they designed every external component outside of the long block from scratch. Maybe this new motor was designed from the start to be as close to the B58 as possible hence why even bmw is considering it for the Z4.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

As much as I love to put my trust in Toyota, I also know that Toyota USA focuses heavily on the financial aspect of bringing lower production models here, and generally, that ends with us consumers having very few options for cars. I'm just hoping that doesn't mean we miss out on the version of the car that we were all waiting for.

Are you worried that we won't be getting a hotter version?

 

[Modal170]

Are you worried that we won't be getting a hotter version?

See how long it took for Toyota USA to give us a Toyota 86 GT or a GT black and the TRD. No GRMN version and the works that was around since 2016 or 15 if I recall.

While 86 doesn't move units, it makes me wonder if this would be just a car with low trims to meet profits and the occasional GRMN for ig dealers like Toyota Texas and Toyota NY.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Just to level with you guys, I have no idea what motor is going to be in the production car at launch. But I do know, without a doubt, that there is a different motor, made of some type of iron, with a redesigned head, that has made big power, and that has been in development for some time. I have more than enough evidence of this engine's existence from my dealings with Toyota and others.

And while the B58 no doubt is a competent motor, I begrudgingly have to join the dark side and ask, why not launch the Supra with a new engine that will make a significant impact, assuming it is as thoroughly developed as we've heard it is? It seems asinine to expect early adopters like us to buy a car with an "okay" motor while we wait 2-3 years for the "wow" motor.

First off all Guff, I appreciate your honesty...it truly sucks that us loyal enthusiasts have to wait so long to get any info on this cars drive-train.

Second, as much as I hate to bring up older topics, I mentioned this a while back about why a better version or top trim version wouldn't be released at launch. It doesn't make sense for a manufacturer nowadays to do this. Even Corvette marketing teams admitted that creating a trend of making the most powerful Vette at the end of every series can negatively impact the sales throughout the production run.

Lastly, "IF" there is another motor, are you sure it's not exclusively for off-road racing? Lexus is notorious for doing this with their F cars, and we hardly see any of those goodies into the production versions.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

See how long it took for Toyota USA to give us a Toyota 86 GT or a GT black and the TRD. No GRMN version and the works that was around since 2016 or 15 if I recall.

While 86 doesn't move units, it makes me wonder if this would be just a car with low trims to meet profits and the occasional GRMN for ig dealers like Toyota Texas and Toyota NY.

Well yeah, but correct me if I'm wrong. But none of those make anymore power over the normal 86, no? All show and no go?

Back to the Supra. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but the Turbo A80 outsold the NA by a good margin.

http://mkiv.com/specifications/sales_numbers/retail_sales.html

We we're also the second largest market for A80. I think ToyotaUSA would be really stupid by not offering a higher performance Supra.

http://mkiv.supras.org.nz/specs.htm#PRODUCTION

 

[PerformanceSound]

Could it not be that this iron block motor developed by Toyota is exactly what we're seeing under that hood? And that it's been designed to work with as many parts from BMW engines as possible so as to reduce overall costs thereby somewhat resembling the B58? To be fair, it would be insanely heavy on costs if they designed every external component outside of the long block from scratch. Maybe this new motor was designed from the start to be as close to the B58 as possible hence why even bmw is considering it for the Z4.

A cast iron block is actually cheaper to manufacture. The aluminum motors are the $$$ nowadays. Especially for boosting applications with high tensile strength liners and machining. Going the aluminum route is not cheap at all...

 

[Guff]

First off all Guff, I appreciate your honesty...it truly sucks that us loyal enthusiasts have to wait so long to get any info on this cars drive-train.

Second, as much as I hate to bring up older topics, I mentioned this a while back about why a better version or top trim version wouldn't be released at launch. It doesn't make sense for a manufacturer nowadays to do this. Even Corvette marketing teams admitted that creating a trend of making the most powerful Vette at the end of every series can negatively impact the sales throughout the production run.

Lastly, "IF" there is another motor, are you sure it's not exclusively for off-road racing? Lexus is notorious for doing this with their F cars, and we hardly see any of those goodies into the production versions.

Yeah, I definitely understand the business case for the hotter version later. I guess maybe I felt as though the "new motor" should have been the base version, and any hotter versions should have been built on top of that. Perhaps that was wishful thinking on my part.

And as far as the racing case, that's certainly possible, but I also know that the motor was tested in production mules, so it seems less likely that it would be a race-only version. Also, many of my dealings with Toyota did imply this was a production engine. This is definitely something I will ask about though, as racing series do have many regulations, so maybe this is something we can potentially confirm or eliminate.

Could it not be that this iron block motor developed by Toyota is exactly what we're seeing under that hood? And that it's been designed to work with as many parts from BMW engines as possible so as to reduce overall costs thereby somewhat resembling the B58? To be fair, it would be insanely heavy on costs if they designed every external component outside of the long block from scratch. Maybe this new motor was designed from the start to be as close to the B58 as possible hence why even bmw is considering it for the Z4.

Of course, it's certainly possible. And it's not the engine bay photos exactly that has me stressed, its more the various BMW technical documentation, the information given out at focus groups, the ZF tech sheets, etc etc. It's just a lot of random things that all seem to mention the B58 and nothing else. Of course, I haven't given up entirely on the idea of us getting the right motor, but it's just getting tougher to keep faith with no assurance from Toyota.

For what its worth, every single one of my contacts at Toyota has listened to me emphatically explain the enthusiasts view of the Supra, and even sat through me pointing out the specifics of what you guys (people of the forums) have said is their ideal Supra, and they've always been receptive and, more importantly, have always been aware. My meeting at Toyota HQ in Plano earlier this year left me feeling extremely confident that we were in the right hands, and I am still holding onto that. It just gets harder with the recent leak lockdown and conflicting information coming from various angles.

Are you worried that we won't be getting a hotter version?

I am, but not necessarily because of anything tangible per se. We've gotten far less information about a GRMN version than we have of even the new motor, so I just don't have the confidence to rely on it being the Supra model we've been waiting for. If that makes sense? Don't take my statement as an indication of its existence or availability though, I'm just thinking out loud here.

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