M2 vs Camaro vs Supra

[RenRed2]

I haven‘t… yet ? The Firm is a newer little track in northern Florida (far from me). But it’s cheap and on the 2023 *possibility list ?

Nice!! If you go - enjoy it. New is good lol!

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[94boosted]

Having owned an SS 1LE prior to my '23 Supra there are a couple major things the Chevy does way better than the Supra. Those Magnetic Ride Control (MRC) dampers, part of the 1LE pkg., are fan-freaking-tastic, that near 3700lb car stays flat on track/autocross when in track mode and in tour mode (aka comfort) the ride isn't overly harsh. The active dampers in the Supra are absolute trash compared to the Chevy MRC ones, such a lost opportunity IMO, especially considering the very soft spring rates our cars have. The second being the actual 1LE pkg. itself; tons of cooling, wider wheels, sticky tires, two-piece rotors, the ability to dial in -2.7° of static camber out of the box, and of course the aforementioned MRC shocks, why there isn't some sort of a "handling" pkg. on the GR Supra is beyond me.

But that outward visibility of the Camaro as well as its sheer size are serious drawbacks.

 

[AJRMKV]

Having owned an SS 1LE prior to my '23 Supra there are a couple major things the Chevy does way better than the Supra. Those Magnetic Ride Control (MRC) dampers, part of the 1LE pkg., are fan-freaking-tastic, that near 3700lb car stays flat on track/autocross when in track mode and in tour mode (aka comfort) the ride isn't overly harsh. The active dampers in the Supra are absolute trash compared to the Chevy MRC ones, such a lost opportunity IMO, especially considering the very soft spring rates our cars have. The second being the actual 1LE pkg. itself; tons of cooling, wider wheels, sticky tires, two-piece rotors, the ability to dial in -2.7° of static camber out of the box, and of course the aforementioned MRC shocks, why there isn't some sort of a "handling" pkg. on the GR Supra is beyond me.

But that outward visibility of the Camaro as well as its sheer size are serious drawbacks.

Agree with you on this one, although all those issues can be fixed with aftermarket parts except for the versatility of MRC. Toyota doesn't build the car, and I doubt BMW would allow them to have a handling package that would let the supra destroy their M cars in comparo tests on release.

I'm okay with the Supra's poor visibility because it's small, the camaro on the other hand, poor visibility + large car is a bad combination.

 

[PikkaGTR]

Having owned an SS 1LE prior to my '23 Supra there are a couple major things the Chevy does way better than the Supra. Those Magnetic Ride Control (MRC) dampers, part of the 1LE pkg., are fan-freaking-tastic, that near 3700lb car stays flat on track/autocross when in track mode and in tour mode (aka comfort) the ride isn't overly harsh. The active dampers in the Supra are absolute trash compared to the Chevy MRC ones, such a lost opportunity IMO, especially considering the very soft spring rates our cars have. The second being the actual 1LE pkg. itself; tons of cooling, wider wheels, sticky tires, two-piece rotors, the ability to dial in -2.7° of static camber out of the box, and of course the aforementioned MRC shocks, why there isn't some sort of a "handling" pkg. on the GR Supra is beyond me.

But that outward visibility of the Camaro as well as its sheer size are serious drawbacks.

Despite having no "handling package"
No wider wheels and cup2 tires, no 2 piece fancy rotors, no magic shocks , just trash active dampers and not having -2.7 camber factory
The little Toyota sports car on Pilot super sports circa 2014 tire tech managed a 112.17 vs a 111.58 on Throttle house track lap time
What is all the extra track handling stuff and the extra 73 horsepower doing ?
Apparently not that much
I'd wager a large sum of money that had the A91 Supra been on the
Cup2 as well, it would have beaten the Camaro
?

 

[94boosted]

Agree with you on this one, although all those issues can be fixed with aftermarket parts except for the versatility of MRC. Toyota doesn't build the car, and I doubt BMW would allow them to have a handling package the would let the supra destroy their M cars in comparo tests on release.

I'm okay with the Supra's poor visibility because it's small, the camaro on the other hand, poor visibility + large car is a bad combination.

Yah the soft springs, crappy dampers and lack of camber adjustment up front on the Supra are my biggest gripes. You're right that they can be mostly fixed with aftermarket parts, I just think it's a shame there isn't a factory option. Most other sports cars do have some sort of a "handling" package available. I was under the impression that Toyota was free to tweak/modify the BMW parts bin to suit the ride & handling they wanted with the car, the MT trans received just such a treatment.

The outward visibility in the Supra is so much better than in the Camaro, it's honestly night & day, no pun intended.

 

[gixxersixxerman]

Despite having no "handling package"
No wider wheels and cup2 tires, no 2 piece fancy rotors, no magic shocks , just trash active dampers and not having -2.7 camber factory
The little Toyota sports car on Pilot super sports circa 2014 tire tech managed a 112.17 vs a 111.58 on Throttle house track lap time
What is all the extra track handling stuff and the extra 73 horsepower doing ?
Apparently not that much
I'd wager a large sum of money that had the A91 Supra been on the
Cup2 as well, it would have beaten the Camaro
?

Them dodging puddles of water and cold when the 1LE was tested didnt help lol.


For a track car at around 45-47k OTD the SS 1LE can't be beat for the price and punches way way over its head.

For a DD it leaves much to be desired, hell you can't even use a drive through because the bag won't fit through the window.

 

[Supra Jr.]

I had a 350R. The car had a ton of potential. I was beaten by a full four seconds by one on streets of Willow. The spec sheet says he's on street tires. I don't know what else he had done to it, But I have also seen them run stupid fast at Buttonwillow.

I did not like driving the car, though. The Supra is so much more enjoyable. Even if the Supra is all out slower, I would still prefer it. The Mustang sure did look mean, though. Also, I loved the carbon fiber wheels.

Man the Gt350R is a legendary car man, tough to sell that, and unless you're talking about just on track, but just a tuned supra would leave it in a straight line race no problem.

 

[PikkaGTR]

Them dodging puddles of water and cold when the 1LE was tested didnt help lol.


For a track car at around 45-47k OTD the SS 1LE can't be beat for the price and punches way way over its head.

For a DD it leaves much to be desired, hell you can't even use a drive through because the bag won't fit through the window.

Puddles now huh?
Are those excuses rearing their ugly heads
Cup2 tires .........
I'm going to say it again
Cup2 tires..........
Vs. pilot super sport a 300UTQ daily summer tire

 

[94boosted]

Puddles now huh?
Are those excuses rearing their ugly heads
Cup2 tires .........
I'm going to say it again
Cup2 tires..........
Vs. pilot super sport a 300UTQ daily summer tire

Unless both lap times were set on the same day under the same conditions, you need to take lap time comparisons with a huge pinch of salt. Besides, nobody is saying the Supra is slow, but it is substantially more expensive than an SS 1LE, while being much smaller and much lighter, not exactly apples to apples.

 

[kaj]

Man the Gt350R is a legendary car man, tough to sell that, and unless you're talking about just on track, but just a tuned supra would leave it in a straight line race no problem.

I wish I still had the car because I think it was neat.. but that's it. I didn't like the seating position, the location of the shifter to the seat/wheel; it just wasn't comfortable for me. I didn't feel comfortable pushing it, either. I did like the fact that it had ALL the race car parts I could ever need other than the camber plates I added and some AJ Hartman aero, which in itself was NICE because ALL of it has CFD data back up, along with actual YouTube vids of the tests.
I even hated daily driving it because Mustang owners in my town are complete and utter douchebags hahaha.
I have much, much more fun in the Supra.

 

[PikkaGTR]

Unless both lap times were set on the same day under the same conditions, you need to take lap time comparisons with a huge pinch of salt. Besides, nobody is saying the Supra is slow, but it is substantially more expensive than an SS 1LE, while being much smaller and much lighter, not exactly apples to apples.

I don't know about substantially more expensive
Similar spec'd 2ss 1LE with the "track handling" package is around 54k + tax
That was 3k less than my 22 3.0 premium
While having a "substantialy" inferior interior, fit and finish and ergonomics
And it required 305 cup2 tires to eek out a half second win

SS 1LE on 305 rear Goodyear eagle F1 car and driver lightning lap MT: 2:54.8
2023 Supra MT on 275 rear PSS street tires car and driver lightning lap: 2:55.6

Again not much of a difference
I would still wager a large sum of. Money if you put PS4S on the Supra it would indeed be faster than the Camaro on that track too ?

And Cup2 it would destroy it

 

[94boosted]

I don't know about substantially more expensive
Similar spec'd 2ss 1LE with the "track handling" package is around 54k + tax
That was 3k less than my 22 3.0 premium
While having a "substantialy" inferior interior, fit and finish and ergonomics
And it required 305 cup2 tires to eek out a half second win

SS 1LE on 305 rear Goodyear eagle F1 car and driver lightning lap MT: 2:54.8
2023 Supra MT on 275 rear PSS street tires car and driver lightning lap: 2:55.6

Again not much of a difference
I would still wager a large sum of. Money if you put PS4S on the Supra it would indeed be faster than the Camaro on that track too ?

And Cup2 it would destroy it

When I build a 2SS 1LE online it’s $52.9K, a Supra Premium is $63K, so yah a fair bit more money.

Again you seem to be ignoring the fact the lap times were not set on the same day.

On the same tires, on the same day/conditions, with the same driver, which would be faster is anyone’s guess, but also separate from the point I was making about Magneride and a handling pkg.

 

[PikkaGTR]

When I build a 2SS 1LE online it’s $52.9K, a Supra Premium is $63K, so yah a fair bit more money.

Again you seem to be ignoring the fact the lap times were not set on the same day.

On the same tires, on the same day/conditions, with the same driver, which would be faster is anyone’s guess but also separate from the point I was making about Magneride and a handling pkg.

57,945

 

[jchadwell]

Gonna put my 2 cents in here. I know all about the same driver/same day/same conditions stuff BUT...

I spend a lot of "library time" reading car mags. Mostly Car and Driver. And I absolutely LOVE seeing all the cars with similar and less performance than my Supra that damn near always cost, often substantially, more, (looking at you Cayman/Boxter) and also nearly ALWAYS come from the factory on Cup2s. And those few that don't still have a newer/better factory tire than we do. Our tire isn't even the most recent version of Michelin's summer tires for crying out loud.

Hell, our Supras match, beat, or come damn close to outperforming cars that cost a lot more AND require tires that ARE NOT EVEN LEGAL in SCCA autocross street tires classes to even hang. The Supra is at or very near the top bang for buck car you can currently buy in my opinion.

It irritates me to no end when the Car and Driver editors talk about not changing tires to be on equal footing because it wasn't "designed for the car". Give me a fucking break. I've been swapping hotter tires for AX and track days and even just finding the best street tires possible for almost 40 years now. The only thing that has ever resulted is my car went faster, cornered harder, and stopped shorter. C/D acts like the damn thing will blow up or something.

I do really enjoy swapping my 200TW AX tires (currently using RE-71RS) and then spanking those same cars at autocross events!

 

[Joker328]

This is a dumb argument. The Camaro SS 1LE is an insane performance value and one of the last great V8 muscle cars the world is likely to ever see. Plus it sounds fucking amazing. If you can handle the size, cheapness of the interior, and the visibility issues, you will probably love it. I came real close to getting one as an upgrade from my econobox Fiesta ST. I ultimately decided that I couldn't live with those issues and wanted something lighter and a little more upscale without breaking the bank: enter the Supra. Both cars are amazing at what they do and still reasonably good value in today's market if you can find one at MSRP.

Now let's all go back to making fun of what a train wreck the new M2 is.

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