Toyota Teases GR Line Up: Supra MK6, Celica MK8, MR2 MK4, 86 MK3 and GR GT

[bk5]

A repurposed and stripped down current LC platform with a smaller engine sounds great...

Yuck. The LC is too big and too floppy as it is, and the engine is has now isn't doesn't even get it up to $50k sports car standards, much less $100k. The LC is an objectively terrible sports car. People are just so enamored with its looks to notice.

"but it's a GT car" = making excuses. Caddy can make cars that handle well, GLH, and be comfortable enough to take on a date.

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[PerformanceSound]

Yuck. The LC is too big and too floppy as it is, and the engine is has now isn't doesn't even get it up to $50k sports car standards, much less $100k. The LC is an objectively terrible sports car. People are just so enamored with its looks to notice.

"but it's a GT car" = making excuses. Caddy can make cars that handle well, GLH, and be comfortable enough to take on a date.

All the previous generation Supra’s were big and floppy, and they were GT cars….they seemed to work pretty good, and are still sought after even by today’s standards.

I didn’t say they should use the V8. I said if they can repurpose the platform with substantially less weight, and a lighter more powerful turbo engine….it would do very well. Also, unlike some “modern” sports cars, the LC still has double wishbones on all four corners. Just sayin.

 

[KahnBB6]

Yuck. The LC is too big and too floppy as it is, and the engine is has now isn't doesn't even get it up to $50k sports car standards, much less $100k. The LC is an objectively terrible sports car. People are just so enamored with its looks to notice.

"but it's a GT car" = making excuses. Caddy can make cars that handle well, GLH, and be comfortable enough to take on a date.

It was never designed as a sports car chassis or thought of as a sports car. It is precisely a traditional style "GT" luxury coupe and there's no "excuses" to put on that. You're looking at the LC500 as something it was never intended to be.

Cadillac has done well with their sedans of late but they haven't done a proper coupe since the CTS-V two door. But those cars are not in the same categories and are doing very different things.

For a more direct comparison, Cadillac *should have* already produced the stillborn Ciel and Elmiraj two door GT cruisers... because they're exactly what Cadillac is and embodies at the flagship level... but nope. They couldn't be bothered.

Instead we get the enormously expensive and butt-ugly outside AND inside Cadillac Celestiq. BARF. Hard pass.

As far as taking someone on a date in an LC... I don't think that has ever been a problem. It's a stunningly beautiful car with a great V8 with a gorgeous leather-everywhere interior.

...

The V8 twin turbo LC-F model was halted midway through development because it was deemed unsuitable for the role (because as you said, it doesn't have the rigidity the engineers truly wanted and it weighs a lot to start out). And that prompted shifting focus onto the GR GT3/LFR with its totally bespoke chassis and heavily revised V8.

So I do see the LC500 chassis architecture as being unique and cool... and although I have zero idea how it would be effectively scaled down enough in size and weight into a potentially lower cost performance Lexus product or non-luxury Toyota RWD performance product... especially with all the other more agile and focused sportscar platforms currently in development at Toyota/Lexus... I'd *like* to see them do something else with it.

I'm just not sure what that would be or how it would fit in the lineup amidst all the other upcoming next-gen performance platforms from the entry level up to the deep six-figure halo GT3/LFR. It's hard to imagine where it might fit in as one more additional product.

 

[KahnBB6]

Hmmm makes you wonder why Toyota just didn't use the LC chassis for the MK5.

This would probably be because both cars had very different design parameters.

The LC500 began development in 2011 and was intended as a big luxury GT cruiser as its mission. Powerful... but not a track car.

The Supra MKV began development sometime around then and was going in the opposite direction as a sportscar with an inline-six intended as being even more focused as a pure track machine than the MKIV was/is.

Had different decisions been made... it's possible that both cars could have shared the platform with very different engines and very different wheelbases, curb weights, stripped out features in the case of the Supra.

The question I have is if the LC (which shares its platform with the very big LS500 btw) could do all of that AND be made rigid enough for what a Supra design requires.

Either way both cars were being designed independently with different teams with totally different targets in the same timeframes.

 

[jmikes]

Hmmm makes you wonder why Toyota just didn't use the LC chassis for the MK5.

Toyota wanted to make a car that matches the Cayman's performance on the track but for much less than a comparably equipped Cayman. I'm not convinced the LC chassis would have got them there on both fronts, let alone either.

 

[not_howard]

Didnt it lose to the Cayman in every comparison test?

 

[PerformanceSound]

I always go back to this clip (see below) of one of the Toyota engineers referring to the LC500 as the “Supra.” This was from 7 or 8yrs ago, before the MKV Supra was released. I believe that the plan was (at that time) to make a LC500 for Lexus that shared its underpinnings with the MKV Supra. However, some financial politics forced them to collab with BMW last minute.

 

[SupraYYJ]

I always go back to this clip (see below) of one of the Toyota engineers referring to the LC500 as the “Supra.” This was from 7 or 8yrs ago, before the MKV Supra was released. I believe that the plan was (at that time) to make a LC500 for Lexus that shared its underpinnings with the MKV Supra. However, some financial politics forced them to collab with BMW last minute.

Thanks for sharing that. I think the fact the engineers on the LC were expecting it to be the next Supra is often overlooked.

I don't think the change in direction was financial. I suspect Akio Toyoda drove what would become the LC, realized it was a boat, and decided a hard reset was needed to demonstrate to his engineers what an actual sports car is.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Thanks for sharing that. I think the fact the engineers on the LC were expecting it to be the next Supra is often overlooked.

I don't think the change in direction was financial. I suspect Akio Toyoda drove what would become the LC, realized it was a boat, and decided a hard reset was needed to demonstrate to his engineers what an actual sports car is.

I get what you’re saying about Akio Toyoda’s driving impressions possibly influencing the LC’s final direction, but I think the timing and circumstances point to more than just a “hard reset” from the top.

Yes, the LC in production form ended up as a heavy GT, but Toyota’s history with the SC300/400 into the MKIV Supra proves they know how to strip weight and sharpen dynamics from a luxury platform. The FT-1’s proportions lined up far more with the LC than the Z4, which makes me think the design was originally aimed at a Toyota-developed chassis.

Where it gets interesting is the Nobuo Nakamura piece. Him working on a completely different Toyota/BMW project before getting pulled into FT-1 design revisions is a pretty big tell. If BMW needed a partner to justify the Z4’s manufacturing costs, and Toyota needed to revive the Supra name without footing the entire R&D bill, a deal like that makes perfect sense…but it also explains the abrupt platform swap. That was the “financial politics” im referring to…it was a deal breaker.

To me, the LC still looks like the spiritual blueprint for what Toyota internally imagined a MKV could be before that BMW deal reshaped the whole thing. I still believe there is hope for repurposing the LC platform into a really nice new gen Supra.

 

[redspencer]

Didnt it lose to the Cayman in every comparison test?

No

 

[Stvee]

From the official Lexus FB page. It looks way better than I was expecting based on the camo.

 

[redspencer]

I wonder if we'll end up seeing two variations released for production (Lexus LFR and Toyota GR GT3)

 

[jmikes]

From the official Lexus FB page. It looks way better than I was expecting based on the camo.

Oh yeah, that's $300K minimum on release. I look forward to never seeing one in person because they'll all be scooped up by car collectors who buy cars as investments...

 

[Bryster]

I always go back to this clip (see below) of one of the Toyota engineers referring to the LC500 as the “Supra.” This was from 7 or 8yrs ago, before the MKV Supra was released. I believe that the plan was (at that time) to make a LC500 for Lexus that shared its underpinnings with the MKV Supra. However, some financial politics forced them to collab with BMW last minute.

you have to wonder what a Rebadged LC Supra would look like with the design the fecelifted GT86 had

 

[Mimosa]

From the official Lexus FB page. It looks way better than I was expecting based on the camo.

So... I'm confused. That's definitely not the production car that was being shown off at Goodwood...

I'm guessing this is an update to their electric sport concept from a few years ago. I highly doubt that V8 they are showing off will be branded a new Toyota halo car.

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