BMWAF
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The whole concept of having both these cars in a manufacturer's line-up makes absolutely no sense. I think we're either missing something, or perhaps the 86 is going away.
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Toyota Teases GR Line Up: Supra MK6, Celica MK8, MR2 MK4, 86 MK3 and GR GT! (Bonus: Lexus LFA)
jmikes
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Could work if this new car is in the $55K+ price bracket and the GR86 stays below $40K.
Even if they do end up similarly priced, the market for actually decent sports cars (and not just "fat slow sedans with a slightly faster motor" or muscle cars that have a shitty 4-banger or V6) is so empty below $40K at this point that I almost want to say Toyota actually can sell two 2-door sports cars in the same price bracket and be fine.
KahnBB6
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I think it would be far more likely to be the other way around: if a four door GR were to be in the lineup the odds might be higher that such a model would be the 3rd gen 86 rather than the new Celica.
Toyota is going to have the Celica coupe (2+2 hopefully?), Supra MKVI coupe (two seater again probably) and two-door MR2 (two seater). Lexus is going to have some new coupe sharing its core architecture with the Supra MKVI.
The Corolla is about to become very different from the current one and a true GR model is a question mark right now. This leaves room in the core GR lineup for something that has four doors and rear seats larger than the ones in the GR86.
--In their anime video series Toyota already teased the 98-05 Altezza (Lexus IS 1st gen) RS200 compact RWD sport sedan sitting very prominently in one episode. In RS200 trim it came with a 2.0L 200hp 3S-GE BEAMS (dual vvt-i) engine mated to pretty much the same Aisin 6-speed manual that the current GR86 uses. Both cars also share the same rear differential design. Toyota will probably keep using some form of the Aisin AZ6/TL-70 6-speed manual and the rear differential (which they have used since the '86 Supra MKIII models) in whatever the new car becomes.
--The Altezza was designed as a four door successor to the 83-87 AE86 Corolla by the same guy who designed the 80's 86. Toyota would consider this to be canon if they were to do it.
--Unless they've done some extremely expensive magic to make the Subaru flat four centric 1st and 2nd gen platform crashworthy worldwide with a longitudinal and much taller G20E engine (compared to the FA20 & FA24 the 1st and 2nd gen platforms were designed around) they have no small RWD coupe platform.
--But they do have a small/mid RWD sedan platform in the Lexus IS architecture which they can strip down and downsize. They certainly could spend the money on a whole new 2-door small RWD platform. Yet... what else would that small RWD architecture be used for since Toyota only does single use chassis architectures for extremely expensive limited production models (ie: GR GT). If they do end up using the IS architecture as a starting point they will be stripping a lot out of it to reduce weight and meet their targets.
--The new Celica either shares its engineering with the new MR2 prototypes or it will be based on a version of the GR Corolla core chassis architecture with a front engine layout. But it will certainly have two doors either way.
The current GR86 made it into a 2027 model year. I was surprised to see even that with it being limited to only a few markets now in this generation. I will be even more surprised if the successor 3rd gen isn't announced for the 2028 model year.
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Ron L
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I don't care which way they go, I just wish they'd get on with it and bring something out soon rather than 2029!
not_howard
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Matador
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Ooo that's interesting.
May just be the camera angle (But what a great angle though). I'm not sure what format the new regulations will make advantageous, but for a while now, shorter cars have had the edge (hence why they are all hatchbacks now). Keep in mind also that since 2022 the top class cars are now silhouette cars built on a tube frame and not a production monocoque and as such can be built to a different size/scale than the car it's based on, see the current Ford Puma for example.
I don't think the GR86 and the Celica will be batting in the same price bracket, so in my opinion having both makes absolute sense. The Celica has not been a lightweight rwd sports car for literal generations.
supraboi
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Recalling the Miata/86 joint project rumor; IMO, with the return of the Celica it would make sense for 3th gen 86 to become a smaller 2 seater. It would also make a good business case to split the R&D cost with Mazda. Lastly, to avoid cannibalism or overlapping buyers, an agreement could be made like in the case with BMW where the Mazda version is only offered as a convertible and the Toyota as a fixed coupe.
Captain_Kirk
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The older and smaller mule could be for the Starlet.
Old vid, but I don't think Toyota needs Mazda. It could be in house with their subsidiaries.
jmikes
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I dunno about most people, but I'd much rather have Toyota partner with BMW again to put a B48 in the next-gen GR86 than to partner with Mazda and give it some economy sedan N/A 4-cyl with no torque. (If we had to get a collab car with a non-Toyota motor again instead of something fully in-house.)
Lorre
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I agree althought I think that’s probably highly unlikely.
Although the collaboration was a success in my opinion, it was said to be a challenging one. And it was only possible because BMW was desperate to have peek at how Toyota’s fuel cell technology. I doubt they will do another one.
26StratMT
Well-Known Member
I think the collab gave us a great car.
Better than we would have gotten from a pure Toyota or a pure BMW.
Are there some minor complaints?
Sure, but every car has something to complain about.
Purists will disapprove but I’ve never been one of those pure brand loyalists.
While I may have some preferences, I appreciate a great car regardless of who makes it.
KahnBB6
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The last I read on this rumor branch the potential collaboration was likely still on the table but not for the very next generation. Rather for the one after the very next. This was supposed to have been because Mazda still wanted to pursue the very next Miata MX-5 as a non-hybrid (one would guess with their "Lambda -1" Skyactiv approach that would be very similar to Porsche recently designing some 911's with Lambda -1 air/fuel ratio tuning for emissions). Whereas Toyota is now looking into going mild hybrid (?) with their new G20E engine. Both companies also wish to retain a manual transmission option for their respective cars.
Toyota and Mazda were reported to have committed to investing substantially in the Miata platform to allow both their vehicle needs to be met. But that was before Mazda wanted to try to keep the Miata non-hybrid for a bit longer.
Hard to say on what timeframe any of this lands now. There hasn't been much recent news on how either near term next gen car will be handled especially regarding the potential platform collaboration.
From what was reported months ago regarding the potential collaboration it was pretty likely that it was to be exactly as you said as to differentiation: the Miata MX-5 would remain the convertible while the GR86 would remain the coupe. The bigger question was as to how or if the GR86 would retain a 2+2 seating layout while still allowing (on a potential shared platform) the Miata to remain a two seater.
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