2021 Lexus IS Sedan + IS500 F SPORT

[justbake]

The 2GR-FSE had 306hp and was used in the IS350 from 2006-2017, and was replaced by the 311hp 2GR-FKS for 2018-2021.

Lexus does seem to be playing things a bit too conservatively on the engine front these days, but really when haven't they? Lexus used the 1UZ/3UZ engine relatively unchanged for 21 years from 1989 to 2010, ditto for the 2JZ-GE for 14 years from from 1991 to 2005, and the 1MZ/3MZ for 15 years from 1993 to 2008.

Jeff

The difference is that those engines were competitive.

The worst part is that they have competitive motors developed, but they are in the wrong vehicles.

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[CSUfiend]

The difference is that those engines were competitive.

The worst part is that they have competitive motors developed, but they are in the wrong vehicles.

Agreed. If you look at one example, the 1UZ-FE, it gained about 50 HP when you look at the first application in the LS400 in 1990, to the last application in the 1998 GS400. That was an example of Lexus keeping a powertrain competitive, and I don’t think anyone would complain if Lexus did that with the IS.

Since the 3IS, and not counting lower production V8 variants, how much HP has the IS gained? Probably ~7HP? And that was 15 years ago. Since 2005 when the 3IS debuted, even bread and and butter cars like the Camry have gained 80+ HP. Even the lowliest 4cyl Camry has gone from 140HP to 200HP since then (+60HP).

IMO, it doesn’t matter how many cylinders or turbos the car has, or whether or not the engine is new from the ground or an improvement of an old motor. But a class competitive 2021 Lexus IS (Non “F” variant) should have about 400HP. Even a 350HP 2021 IS would be more acceptable (although not class competitive) as opposed to the 311HP model that Lexus has right now.

 

[justbake]

Agreed. If you look at one example, the 1UZ-FE, it gained about 50 HP when you look at the first application in the LS400 in 1990, to the last application in the 1998 GS400. That was an example of Lexus keeping a powertrain competitive, and I don’t think anyone would complain if Lexus did that with the IS.

Since the 3IS, and not counting lower production V8 variants, how much HP has the IS gained? Probably ~7HP? And that was 15 years ago. Since 2005 when the 3IS debuted, even bread and and butter cars like the Camry have gained 80+ HP. Even the lowliest 4cyl Camry has gone from 140HP to 200HP since then (+60HP).

IMO, it doesn’t matter how many cylinders or turbos the car has, or whether or not the engine is new from the ground or an improvement of an old motor. But a class competitive 2021 Lexus IS (Non “F” variant) should have about 400HP. Even a 350HP 2021 IS would be more acceptable (although not class competitive) as opposed to the 311HP model that Lexus has right now.

This isn’t just limited to the IS either.

The GS already died because of this.

The ES is a joke as a GS replacement.

There is no mid level RC to compete with mid level Germans or even Infiniti.

The LS still doesn’t have a V8 which is almost mandatory as a flagship.

The LC still doesn’t have an F version, 5 years is a rather ridiculous gap for a performance trim.

The worst part is that we live in a time where every other company has performance SUVs and Lexus has 0 response to this. BMW has 7 SUV trims over 5 different models with over 500hp.

Lexus doesn’t have to be the best of the best for their fans to buy their vehicles but atleast try.

 

[CSUfiend]

It is as if Lexus just stopped trying to give a damn


I’m afraid for Lexus in the future. The average Lexus buyer is in their 50’s/60’s. I am a high school teacher in California and talk to kids every day about cars. In general, I think Lexus really doesn’t have an identity with the young at all, other than an RX350 that parents pick up their kids with.


I grew up in the generation that wanted the SC400 that I saw regularly on MTV, bought a GS400, wanted the IS-F when I was in grad school. Now out of grad school, the car that interests me most is a Toyota with a BMW motor. Even thought Lexus is already sort of dead to me, I think it’s even more dead to those that are younger

 

[Jeff Lange]

Agreed. If you look at one example, the 1UZ-FE, it gained about 50 HP when you look at the first application in the LS400 in 1990, to the last application in the 1998 GS400. That was an example of Lexus keeping a powertrain competitive, and I don’t think anyone would complain if Lexus did that with the IS.

I suppose that's true, 250hp to 260hp for the non-VVT-i and then up to 290/300hp for the VVT-i version, depending on model.

Since the 3IS, and not counting lower production V8 variants, how much HP has the IS gained? Probably ~7HP? And that was 15 years ago. Since 2005 when the 3IS debuted, even bread and and butter cars like the Camry have gained 80+ HP. Even the lowliest 4cyl Camry has gone from 140HP to 200HP since then (+60HP).

The 2IS debuted in 2005 with the 2GR-FSE and 306hp, the same engine continued into the 3IS in 2013 with 306hp, and was replaced by the 2GR-FKS in 2017 with 311hp. I agree a 5hp bump isn't the greatest after 12 years.

The Camry 4-cylinder went from 154hp in 2005 to 169hp in 2009 to 203hp in 2017, not quite 50hp, but the point stands.

The V6 on the other hand went from 268hp in 2005 to 295hp in 2015 to 301hp in 2017. Again, still more impressive than the 5hp of the IS.

IMO, it doesn’t matter how many cylinders or turbos the car has, or whether or not the engine is new from the ground or an improvement of an old motor. But a class competitive 2021 Lexus IS (Non “F” variant) should have about 400HP. Even a 350HP 2021 IS would be more acceptable (although not class competitive) as opposed to the 311HP model that Lexus has right now.

I suppose that's likely true, and for many people it may be a big part of the decision, but I also suspect a lot of Lexus purchases aren't contingent only because of the power output.

Lexus may have decided to toss the IS line, and it's on its last legs, who knows. I definitely question some decisions being made at the moment, but also still like a lot of what they're doing. If they were truly giving up on the IS, I don't think the amount of revision given to the suspension would have happened. It's quite the update for a mid-model-change.

Jeff

 

[CSUfiend]

Actually, I think the Camry V6 in 2005 (5th gen) still used the 1MZFE, a power plant that dated to the 1990’s that was 200HP. it may have been about 210HP in SE trim, I’m not sure about that one though. The Camry didn’t use the 2GR Until 6th gen, but I think that was after the 3IS.

I do think we are all in agreement that the Lexus brand has been stagnant for many years now. A couple of things that baffle me though:

1: There has been some attempts at making the brand more sports oriented. When you compare the models from 2005 to the ones today (LS430 to LS500, RX330 to RX350, ES330 to ES350, etc) they have firmer suspensions and handle better.

2: The RC and LC were both introduced during this time period, and we all know that coupes are dying so this does mean that they made an effort at targeting a niche market. These cars were no doubt meant to inject excitement into the brand. Also, why weren’t these new models (with new Never before used platforms) introduced with new powertrain options?

I know that they like keeping a proven powertrain, so I wonder if they have experimented with using forced induction on the 2GR motor? It wouldn’t make sense from an Emissions/Fuel Economy perspective, but it would at least satisfy those of us who want more than the standard 306HP but don’t want the V8.

What Lexus should have done IMO

• 2006 - introduction of 2006 IS (306 HP and comparable performance to class leading competitors (with better acceleration numbers than class leaders, according to some publications))

• 2010 - Major refresh: power bumped to ~330HP to keep up with competition

• 2013 - 4IS debut

• 2015 - RC debut with ~350HP. IS power gets bumped up with the debut of RC to ~350HP to keep up with competition

• 2021 - IS major refresh with power bumped up to ~400HP to keep up with competition

Horsepower may not be everything, but it does bring excitement to a brand as a buyer and an outsider to a brand. I remember the excitement in 2005 when the 3IS was compared to the e92, which was also new as well. Both cars were head to head and could do 0-60 in <5 secs.
I also remember back in 1998 when the GS400 had 300HP while the e39 540i had 282HP and the GS and 6spd e39 did 0-60 in <6 seconds. Back then I didn’t own a Lexus, but it played into my perception of the brand and I eventually did buy a Lexus because of that excitement.

I think that is the type of excitement that Lexus should bring back

 

[justbake]

Actually, I think the Camry V6 in 2005 (5th gen) still used the 1MZFE, a power plant that dated to the 1990’s that was 200HP. it may have been about 210HP in SE trim, I’m not sure about that one though. The Camry didn’t use the 2GR Until 6th gen, but I think that was after the 3IS.

I do think we are all in agreement that the Lexus brand has been stagnant for many years now. A couple of things that baffle me though:

1: There has been some attempts at making the brand more sports oriented. When you compare the models from 2005 to the ones today (LS430 to LS500, RX330 to RX350, ES330 to ES350, etc) they have firmer suspensions and handle better.

2: The RC and LC were both introduced during this time period, and we all know that coupes are dying so this does mean that they made an effort at targeting a niche market. These cars were no doubt meant to inject excitement into the brand. Also, why weren’t these new models (with new Never before used platforms) introduced with new powertrain options?

I know that they like keeping a proven powertrain, so I wonder if they have experimented with using forced induction on the 2GR motor? It wouldn’t make sense from an Emissions/Fuel Economy perspective, but it would at least satisfy those of us who want more than the standard 306HP but don’t want the V8.

What Lexus should have done IMO

• 2006 - introduction of 2006 IS (306 HP and comparable performance to class leading competitors (with better acceleration numbers than class leaders, according to some publications))

• 2010 - Major refresh: power bumped to ~330HP to keep up with competition

• 2013 - 4IS debut

• 2015 - RC debut with ~350HP. IS power gets bumped up with the debut of RC to ~350HP to keep up with competition

• 2021 - IS major refresh with power bumped up to ~400HP to keep up with competition

Horsepower may not be everything, but it does bring excitement to a brand as a buyer and an outsider to a brand. I remember the excitement in 2005 when the 3IS was compared to the e92, which was also new as well. Both cars were head to head and could do 0-60 in <5 secs.
I also remember back in 1998 when the GS400 had 300HP while the e39 540i had 282HP and the GS and 6spd e39 did 0-60 in <6 seconds. Back then I didn’t own a Lexus, but it played into my perception of the brand and I eventually did buy a Lexus because of that excitement.

I think that is the type of excitement that Lexus should bring back

They don’t even have to experiment with turbocharging the 2gr, they already have a TT V6 in the V35a.

They could even have different tunes of the V35a at different power levels and price points to satisfy different buyers, like how Infiniti has 300hp and 400hp variants of the same VR30 motor with very few mechanical changes.

They could have the 414hp IS500 and a ~500hp IS-F with a tuned V35a. This would satisfy the limited market of performance compact sedans without much additional overhead.

Especially if the Supra had a V35a and they sold sedans and SUVs with the V35a, they could be sold a “4 door Supras” and “Supra SUVs” the same way people bought IS/GSs and SCs as “4 door Supras” and “Supra in a fat suit.” This stuff markets itself.

 

[Jeff Lange]

Actually, I think the Camry V6 in 2005 (5th gen) still used the 1MZFE, a power plant that dated to the 1990’s that was 200HP. it may have been about 210HP in SE trim, I’m not sure about that one though.

Sorry, I was a bit loose on the dates as I was using production years and not model years and was sort of grouping the the Avalon/Camry/Solara together.

The 2005 model year Camry used either the 1MZ-FE (3.0L, 210hp) or the 3MZ-FE (3.3L, 225hp) in the SE. That said, the 2GR debuted in the 3rd gen Avalon in January 2005 (2005 model year) and the 6th generation Camry in January 2006 (2007 model year).

The Camry didn’t use the 2GR Until 6th gen, but I think that was after the 3IS.

Camry production with the 2GR started in January 2006, the 2IS (not the 3IS), started production in August 2005. For North America, Avalon was first, then 2IS, then Camry.

Horsepower may not be everything, but it does bring excitement to a brand as a buyer and an outsider to a brand. I remember the excitement in 2005 when the 3IS was compared to the e92, which was also new as well. Both cars were head to head and could do 0-60 in <5 secs.
I also remember back in 1998 when the GS400 had 300HP while the e39 540i had 282HP and the GS and 6spd e39 did 0-60 in <6 seconds. Back then I didn’t own a Lexus, but it played into my perception of the brand and I eventually did buy a Lexus because of that excitement.

I think that is the type of excitement that Lexus should bring back

2IS, haha.

I think Lexus is a bit confused as to what they're doing. Is it about ultimate luxury, is it about sportiness, is it about power, is it about performance? It seems to me that it used to be about high quality and luxury, then it became about sportiness, and all of a sudden there were F-Sport packages for everything. Now they seem to be trying to play the styling game without giving as much substance (with some exceptions).

They really need to think about what they want to be, and go from there.

Jeff

 

[Supra93]

https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/190311

Although existing in the predecessor, the IS F, whose settings have been postponed in the current model, will be revived. It is prepared as a hidden ball at the timing of the minor changes introduced above. The engine demonstrates 481ps/54.6kgm with V8 and 5L NA, which is also installed in RC F.

Lexus IS F (scheduled to appear in November 2020, image is the best car expected CG)

 

[CSUfiend]

Lexus IS F (scheduled to appear in November 2020, image is the best car expected CG)

After reading about the news regarding the LC-F, LS-F, and now this, I am skeptical of this latest Lexus news due to the timeline that is given by Bestcar.

Granted, it won’t take as much R&D to give the IS the old 5.0 V8 in the RC-F, it makes me doubtful that after debuting the refreshed IS, they would wait half a year and show us the IS-F If true, was this a reaction after that car was practically tarred and feathered by everyone? Was it planned all along?

It doesn’t make sense when you think about. It means that they threw a tantrum during the worse days of COVID-19, declared that they would no longer have V8’s, and now suddenly... everything is good to go again after that short term tantrum? I’m not so sure about that

November is less than 3 months away. In this COVID-19 world where COVID-19 is the standard excuse to delay anything and everything., Lexus is now ready to have the IS-F to show us??


Maybe I’m wrong and all of this Lexus news has me down, but...


If it sounds too good to be true...

 

[vb22]

 

[vb22]

 

[Supra93]

https://www.modellista.co.jp/en/product/is/

 

[antonio88x]

Looks nice. But Lexus/Toyota has fallen so far behind their rivals when it comes to infotainment. The BMW system in the Supra was a huge plus for me. If it had the typical infotainment you see in the RAV4s, it would've been a HARD pass for me.

Lexus won't wow buyers anymore until they really commit to improving their interior technology. For most people buying a daily, the inside of the car is most important. Having features that are intuitive and make your life easier with an interface that makes sense is what seals the deal. IS/3series/C-class buyers don't really care as much about HP and TQ and brake rotor sizes, tire compound, weight distribution, transmission technology, etc. Is it comfortable and feature packed? Okay, sold.

 

[supraboi]

Teased: New Lexus F SPORT Model on the Way

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2021/02/14/teased-new-lexus-f-sport-model-on-the-way/

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