2021 Toyota Supra 2.0 Dyno Results

splv

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https://www.motor1.com/news/414380/toyota-86-subaru-brz-upgrade/

217 hp. 12 more than current. I tend to believe this more than the rumored 250 horsepower. Toyota is not going to sell a 255 hp car for $40k and then a 250 hp car somewhere in the high $20k range.

Same goes for Subaru. If they were to sell a 250hp BRZ their (non STI) WRX sales would hurt.

So a small bump in power seems logical to me.
Sounds about right. Gonna be hard to improve on the next-gen 86/BRZ with the WRX and 2.0 Supra creating a ceiling. The current car is excellent for what it was designed for so might as well continue with more of the same. Will be more evolutionary than revolutionary, that's for sure.

I could afford the 3.0, but I'm more interested in the 2.0 because 200 lb. lighter and less nose-heavy.

But it's not like expanding sales to those who can't afford the 3.0 is a bad idea anyway, seems like a no-brainer to me.
You might be in the minority. From the marketing perspective, it's obvious the strategy is to go after the buyer who wants the Supra but at a lower price point, and that is the only reason for the 2.0 Supra. Has nothing to do with creating a lighter, better-balanced Supra or one that is cheaper to swap into. That's like saying you can afford the real thing but chose to buy a Chinese knock-off Louis Vuitton bag for your wife because the thinner and lighter material saves her shoulder. Try selling that idea to your wife.





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Captain_Kirk

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I could afford the 3.0, but I'm more interested in the 2.0 because 200 lb. lighter and less nose-heavy.

But it's not like expanding sales to those who can't afford the 3.0 is a bad idea anyway, seems like a no-brainer to me.
I think it depends on how they price it. With the GS there was only a $4k price differences between the 2.0t and 3.5 V6. For an extra $4k I could see why people went with the latter.

Now with the Supra if Toyota priced the 2.0 at $40k and the 3.0 at $50k I can see more of a business case for a cheaper entry level model. Of course, this is just speculation on my part. We'll see how all of this will play out in the near future.
 

ZDan

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You might be in the minority.
I'm sure I am!
From the marketing perspective, it's obvious the strategy is to go after the buyer who wants the Supra but at a lower price point,
Obviously.

and that is the only reason for the 2.0 Supra.
But it's not the only reason it's a good idea...

Has nothing to do with creating a lighter, better-balanced Supra or one that is cheaper to swap into. That's like saying you can afford the real thing but chose to buy a Chinese knock-off Louis Vuitton bag for your wife because the thinner and lighter material saves her shoulder. Try selling that idea to your wife.
I don't think this analogy works, at all... If anything this would be a smaller Louis Vuitton bag made in the same place by the same people with the same quality from the same materials. Just less of it for less $$$.
3200 lb. is for many enthusiasts legitimately *better* than 3400 lb. for sports car.
 

splv

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3200 lb. is for many enthusiasts legitimately *better* than 3400 lb. for sports car.
A 215whp 3200lb car is only "better" than a 330whp 3400lb car by pricetag. You make it seem like the 200lbs saved puts the 2.0 Supra in Lotus Elise class. Regardless of trim/grade, the Supra is not the car if you're after lightweight sports car. Again, you want a Supra but are looking for ways to justify why you're in the 2.0 and not the 3.0. Just like the MKIII guys love to tell everyone that they own a Supra but struggle for words when asked which MK they have and why the MKIII and not the MKIV.
 

ZDan

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A 215whp 3200lb car is only "better" than a 330whp 3400lb car by pricetag.
No, 200 lb. lighter is inherently better because a: more grip (all else equal) and b: less massive "feel" (subjective and not appreciated by all).

STrictly going by power/weight, of course it's a lower-performance car. But there *are* benefits other than lower price.
Unless you are a muscle-car fan and power/weight is all and being massive doesn't bother you at all. In which case USDM has come cars for you...

You make it seem like the 200lbs saved puts the 2.0 Supra in Lotus Elise class.
??? Of course it's not. All I'm saying is that for some of us, 3200 lb. is *better* than 3400 lb.

Regardless of trim/grade, the Supra is not the car if you're after lightweight sports car. Again, you want a Supra but are looking for ways to justify why you're in the 2.0 and not the 3.0.
I'm not trying to justify anything. I could buy a 3.0 outright with cash. I'm just not interested in a 3400 lb. "sports" car. It was legit off my radar until they decided to bring the 2.0 to the U.S. Now I'm going to at least have a test drive.

Just like the MKIII guys love to tell everyone that they own a Supra but struggle for words when asked which MK they have and why the MKIII and not the MKIV.
Never a big fan of the MkIV. World's fastest potato...
 

Dannyvandelft

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3200 lbs means it's 6% lighter than it's 3400 lbs brother. Put in a 200 lbs driver in each and it gets to a 5% difference. You will never feel the difference between those weights.

The 3.0 has 50% more power, not to mention a better suspension and braking setup easily overcoming the weight difference. And in today's world where most cars creep closer to, or even beyond 4000 lbs, 3400 is still light.
 

vb22

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I think Toyota USA is only projecting a 20% sale rate for the 4 banger model.
I'm a little surprised that its that high. Most polls on the forum only show about 10% potential buyer would be interested in the 4 cylinder.
 

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3200 lbs means it's 6% lighter than it's 3400 lbs brother. Put in a 200 lbs driver in each and it gets to a 5% difference. You will never feel the difference between those weights.
I think I would, but agree that it shouldn't be that profound a difference, really. But for sure I'm more interested in the car at 3200 lb. than at 3400 lb., more so than I'm interested in 50% more horsepower.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to test-driving one of these days...

The 3.0 has 50% more power, not to mention a better suspension and braking setup easily overcoming the weight difference. And in today's world where most cars creep closer to, or even beyond 4000 lbs, 3400 is still light.
Suspension would likely get swapped out for track work anyway. Brakes, I'm not too worried about with track-appropriate pads and fluid. Are fixed-piston calipers going to be available on the 2.0? I'd be on the fence if they required 19" wheels, but for sure I'd like them if only for ease of pad swaps vs. sliders...
 

2JZ-No-Sh*t

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I think it depends on how they price it. With the GS there was only a $4k price differences between the 2.0t and 3.5 V6. For an extra $4k I could see why people went with the latter.

Now with the Supra if Toyota priced the 2.0 at $40k and the 3.0 at $50k I can see more of a business case for a cheaper entry level model. Of course, this is just speculation on my part. We'll see how all of this will play out in the near future.
I would agree that pricing is key to the success or failure of the 4 banger. A70 hinted at $42k, assuming the 3.0 remains the same the two have only a 16% differences in price.

I'm a little surprised that its that high. Most polls on the forum only show about 10% potential buyer would be interested in the 4 cylinder.
Gotta love the polls. 90% of people say that wanted a MT, and only 10% for the 4 banger. So what does Toyota do.. :rolleyes:
 

Dannyvandelft

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I would agree that pricing is key to the success or failure of the 4 banger. A70 hinted at $42k, assuming the 3.0 remains the same the two have only a 16% differences in price.



Gotta love the polls. 90% of people say that wanted a MT, and only 10% for the 4 banger. So what does Toyota do.. :rolleyes:
It's all about the 0-60 numbers. No way a manual would even come close to a 4 second run to 60. Then you'd have a bunch of people crying "$57k for car 0-60 in 5 seconds... whaaaaat #fakesupra" and so on.

It's a performance car, and manuals just can't keep up. It's sad, because I love a manual.
 

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The GT 86 would be an interesting comparison for the 2.0 Supra

It is less than half to cost of the 3.0 Supra here, 550 lbs lighter, more practical, handles better & has 6 MT

But it has way less horsepower & uses more fuel than the 3.0

I doubt we will get the 2.0 here, not enough sales of the 3.0 or GT 86
 

Dannyvandelft

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The GT 86 would be an interesting comparison for the 2.0 Supra

It is less than half to cost of the 3.0 Supra here, 550 lbs lighter, more practical, handles better & has 6 MT

But it has way less horsepower & uses more fuel than the 3.0

I doubt we will get the 2.0 here, not enough sales of the 3.0 or GT 86
I'm not so sure if the Supra is less practical. The "backseat" is virtually unusable unless the driver is a midget. It's more cramped for the driver. The dealer had a Supra and a GT86 Hakone edition side by side so I stepped from one into the other and I was more comfortable in the Supra.
Main selling point of the 2.0 vs 86 are the looks of the Supra and the quality of the interior. Obviously the Supra has much nicer materials and looks more upscale on the inside.

The GT86 is a car aimed at people somewhere in their 20's while the Supra ticks more boxes in the 30's crowd I think.
 

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I'm not so sure if the Supra is less practical. The "backseat" is virtually unusable unless the driver is a midget. It's more cramped for the driver. The dealer had a Supra and a GT86 Hakone edition side by side so I stepped from one into the other and I was more comfortable in the Supra.
Main selling point of the 2.0 vs 86 are the looks of the Supra and the quality of the interior. Obviously the Supra has much nicer materials and looks more upscale on the inside.

The GT86 is a car aimed at people somewhere in their 20's while the Supra ticks more boxes in the 30's crowd I think.
Yes the back seats are rubbish in the 86, still better than the ones in the Supra though :D

But folded down you can get so much more stuff in the back of an 86

I had to get really creative & take less in the Supra than the 86 to go to Benchrest shooting competitions

IMG_4949_zpsdnf6ilfj.jpg


That's all the shooting gear, rifles behind the seats, I couldn't take the cleaning rods, not much room for luggage either

Not sure of your average income over there, it was 52K here last year, the 86 is $49K & 3.0 is 100K fair chunk of change

I've had two 86s & now the Mk5 & I;m in the 50s crowd :), don't see many youngies driving these cars here
 

Dannyvandelft

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Yes the back seats are rubbish in the 86, still better than the ones in the Supra though :D

But folded down you can get so much more stuff in the back of an 86

I had to get really creative & take less in the Supra than the 86 to go to Benchrest shooting competitions

IMG_4949_zpsdnf6ilfj.jpg


That's all the shooting gear, rifles behind the seats, I couldn't take the cleaning rods, not much room for luggage either

Not sure of your average income over there, it was 52K here last year, the 86 is $49K & 3.0 is 100K fair chunk of change

I've had two 86s & now the Mk5 & I;m in the 50s crowd :), don't see many youngies driving these cars here
Those prices are crazy. People here in the U.S. like to complain a lot, but prices here are great. The cost of living isn't high. And most people here get in trouble by overspending. Hell the economy is based on it. Everyone is a slave to their credit cards. Once I found that out, and got rid of it, it was like a whole new world opened up. Anyway I'm going off track.
I breed and show Great Danes as a hobby so I have a minivan I haul them around in which doubles as a cargo carrier at times. Only thing I put in my car is a gym bag or a backpack when I go to work.
Back home in the Netherlands prices are more like they are in your area. The Supra starts there around €82k. Crazy prices.
 

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