2023 A90 Supra manual vs 718 Cayman vs 981 GT4 3.8

[Lorre]

Hi everyone,

At the moment I have a 2021 Honda Civic Type R and I love everything about it. The chassis, the gearbox, the engine, the control weights are all spot on. I struggle to find a car that does everything better in a package within this price range.

That said, I can't help wanting a larger and more sonorous engine with rear wheel drive with a manual gearbox. Especially since cars like these are fast becoming extinct.

I've followed the GR Supra's launch back in 2019 but was disappointed that it did not have a manual box available. Needless to say, when the GR Supra was available with a manual box, It certainly got my attention.

I've narrowed down to a few choices and thought I could get some opinions.

1) New GR Supra manual - Unfortunately I can only try the controls and sitting position as there are no demonstrators that I can take for a drive. (Gearbox feels like somewhere between the FK8 Type R and the M2. Doesn't have the FK8's well-oiled shifts but definitely much better than the BMW's slightly rubbery and disconnected feel. Clutch pedals seem to be slightly offset to the right for a RHD) Love the sitting position. Feels more sports car than the M2 for sure.

I managed to sample a stage 1 2019 Supra 3.0AT and I was frankly shocked at the way the car pulls! It wasn't perfect though. I honestly thought the steering although very sharp and direct was a little lacking in feel and the highway stability wasn't as good as the FK8s.

2) New 718 Caymen 2.0T manual - Proper sports car platform, Porsche dynamics - which appears to be a class leader from the reviews I've read. But I'll be back to a 4 cylinder which is not what I really want. Anyone had or still have a 718 base Cayman manual?

3) 981 Cayman GT4 3.8 6MT - Initial impressions are very good. Driving position is perfect. Pedal placement is also spot on. Clutch is heavy though. Shifts are just as good as a FK8 but has a bit more heft in its action. Steering is very direct but felt a little light as compared to the FK8's. The moment I took it out onto a main road, pulling in 2nd, the induction note was quite addictive, but I honestly thought the car felt slow. Probably due to the long gear ratios. I didn't have the chance to rev it out, but it does feel special but feels less enjoyable on the streets.

I've sorta ruled out the F87 M2C 6MT, but wouldn't mind any input.

3) F87 M2 competition manual - Clutch pedal feel even more offset to the right as compared to the Supra's. Chassis feels more raw and old school. The S55 engine down low feels a slightly flatter than the B58, but feels pretty brutal past 3,000rpm. Gearbox just doesn't feel very nice to be honest.

All opinions welcomed!

Thanks!

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[Nocturnal]

I love the Supra as much as the next person on this forum. But if you’re cross shopping a GT4, this is easily case closed. The GT4 is nothing short of perfection, albeit you pay for it.

 

[Lorre]

I love the Supra as much as the next person on this forum. But if you’re cross shopping a GT4, this is easily case closed. The GT4 is nothing short of perfection, albeit you pay for it.

I might be part of a minority here, or maybe the one I sampled wasn't in the greatest shape. It frankly wasn't as good as I expected. At least not on the stretch of road that I tried it on. Being NA, I know it won't punch like a Supra, but it really felt a little slow.

I can't stretch for 718 GT4 4.0 or a GTS 4.0 for that matter. It would be out of my price range. And used GT4 manuals are rare in my country. There's only one 981 3.8 GT4 at the moment and it's not in the greatest condition.

Anyone has any experience with a base 718 cayman manual?

 

[alan7467]

I might be part of a minority here, or maybe the one I sampled wasn't in the greatest shape. It frankly wasn't as good as I expected. At least not on the stretch of road that I tried it on. Being NA, I know it won't punch like a Supra, but it really felt a little slow.

I can't stretch for 718 GT4 4.0 or a GTS 4.0 for that matter. It would be out of my price range. And used GT4 manuals are rare in my country. There's only one 981 3.8 GT4 at the moment and it's not in the greatest condition.

Anyone has any experience with a base 718 cayman manual?

It wasn’t a manual, but I did take a base 718 Cayman on a long test drive years ago. Honestly, it was pretty boring driving around town. Gearing was a little too long even with the PDK, and the engine was completely gutless down low. Reving it out was fun though, and I’m sure it’d be great on a back road. Didn’t like it as a potential all rounder. What was telling to me was how much more fun my VW GTI at the time was when I hopped back in it after the test drive.

After that test drive I immediately went and drove a F87 M2C (auto). It was much more fun around town and a better all rounder IMO.

 

[SupraGTS]

Found myself in a similar situation. Had a Lotus Exige V6 S but wanted something easier to live with. Personally I would never buy a 4 cylinder Cayman so that was never something I looked at but I did look at/drive the 981 GT4 before buying the Supra. The problem with the 981 GT4 is exactly as you say, they are pretty slow and there isnt much you can do about it. The gearing is whack as well. I guess changing the final drive would help a lot though. In my case I went with a Manual Supra... So far, no regrets, engine feels much stronger than my V6 Exige or the GT4. The sound is a bit disappointing but other than that I am finding it hard to fault the car.

 

[razorlab]

GT4’s look awesome and sound awesome. For street fun use, I can see getting it over a Supra if you have the money.

For track use, the Supra can surpass the GT4 and can hang/get close to GT3 RS’s…

The Supra in #3 is stock power even.

 

[Schang105]

GT4’s look awesome and sound awesome. For street fun use, I can see getting it over a Supra if you have the money.

For track use, the Supra can surpass the GT4 and can hang/get close to GT3 RS’s…

The Supra in #3 is stock power even.

Dat Miata in #1 tho!!

718 Caymans are more exciting when pushing mechanical limits, so street driving feels mostly very sedate. On the street the F82 M2 comp is better suited.

 

[Sharocks]

I ALMOST sold my A91 with delivery miles for a 981 GT4.

Thankfully I drove my NA M3 over to the dealership where I got to test drive the GT4.

The 981 ain't it.

Chassis, shifter, brakes and suspension = Great

Engine = Nah

M2C is the compromise car for you in this case. If you need backseats effectively coming from a Type R.

The manual Supra, even though you can't test drive them new, was the better bang for buck compared to both of those cars.

The only 718 to consider is a GTS 4.0 or a GT4.

Friend of mine just picked up a 718 GT4 and it's a rowdy but very different kind of car, you have to work for the power just like an older M car.

 

[razorlab]

Dat Miata in #1 tho!!

Yea, that’s either an unlimited car with little resemblance to the original Miata or someone putting their Garmin in a 911 cup car or something and not changing the account.

 

[SupraCess]

I love the Supra as much as the next person on this forum. But if you’re cross shopping a GT4, this is easily case closed. The GT4 is nothing short of perfection, albeit you pay for it.

I agree, I'll pick the GT4.

 

[johnnyskids]

I'm in a similar situation and I think we have somewhat similar tastes. I currently drive a 2022 Honda Civic Si and it by far is the best manual I have ever owned. It's rather hard to find great manuals nowadays. I'm coming from back to back performance VW's, which I felt had decent manuals, but just lacked a lot of the mechanical precision that Honda puts into their performance manuals.

I'm almost certainly going to buy a manual Supra. I have crossed off the current gen BMW M2, too ugly, too expensive, too heavy, don't need the rear seat (as I will keep my Civic as my daily driver), and the manual is just typical BMW poor.

I think you should likely cross the base model 718, you just aren't getting the full Porsche experience and I feel like you'd grow to regret that decision over time. Their manual is very good though and better than any other German manual out there. But without that fantastic 6 cylinder sound, it just doesn't feel or sound like a Porsche.

The older Boxster/Cayman are decent, I'm not sure if you'd like it more than the current manual Supra, but I wouldn't fault you for going that route.

I see that you are in Singapore, so I'm not overly familiar with what options you might have that we don't get in Canada, and that goes for comparable pricing.

For me personally the best attainable sports car out there right now is likely the Lotus Emira, but it just has pushed a bit too far outside my comfort level for spending.

With how much you love your Civic Type R, have you thought about keeping it and just adding a fun RWD vehicle instead of putting all your eggs in the Supra basket? If the rumors are true and Toyota puts the 3 cylinder turbo from the GR Yaris/Corolla into their GR86, that could give you a great second vehicle to pair with your Civic Type R. It'll have around 300hp, be light, have a unique sound as it's a 3 cylinder, and a decent manual to boot.

Getting back to the Supra. I test drove an automatic 2021 6 cylinder version and it certainly had more than enough power to keep someone entertained. But I did prefer the 2023 Subaru BRZ on the back road section of the test drive. But I'm attributing it to the lack of a manual in the Supra I drove.

So in summary, if you can't afford a new 6 cylinder Porsche or the Lotus Emira supercharged V6 manual, and you only want one car, I'd recommend the a 6 cylinder Supra manual.

 

[Schang105]

I'm in a similar situation and I think we have somewhat similar tastes. I currently drive a 2022 Honda Civic Si and it by far is the best manual I have ever owned. It's rather hard to find great manuals nowadays. I'm coming from back to back performance VW's, which I felt had decent manuals, but just lacked a lot of the mechanical precision that Honda puts into their performance manuals.

I'm almost certainly going to buy a manual Supra. I have crossed off the current gen BMW M2, too ugly, too expensive, too heavy, don't need the rear seat (as I will keep my Civic as my daily driver), and the manual is just typical BMW poor.

I think you should likely cross the base model 718, you just aren't getting the full Porsche experience and I feel like you'd grow to regret that decision over time. Their manual is very good though and better than any other German manual out there. But without that fantastic 6 cylinder sound, it just doesn't feel or sound like a Porsche.

The older Boxster/Cayman are decent, I'm not sure if you'd like it more than the current manual Supra, but I wouldn't fault you for going that route.

I see that you are in Singapore, so I'm not overly familiar with what options you might have that we don't get in Canada, and that goes for comparable pricing.

For me personally the best attainable sports car out there right now is likely the Lotus Emira, but it just has pushed a bit too far outside my comfort level for spending.

With how much you love your Civic Type R, have you thought about keeping it and just adding a fun RWD vehicle instead of putting all your eggs in the Supra basket? If the rumors are true and Toyota puts the 3 cylinder turbo from the GR Yaris/Corolla into their GR86, that could give you a great second vehicle to pair with your Civic Type R. It'll have around 300hp, be light, have a unique sound as it's a 3 cylinder, and a decent manual to boot.

Getting back to the Supra. I test drove an automatic 2021 6 cylinder version and it certainly had more than enough power to keep someone entertained. But I did prefer the 2023 Subaru BRZ on the back road section of the test drive. But I'm attributing it to the lack of a manual in the Supra I drove.

So in summary, if you can't afford a new 6 cylinder Porsche or the Lotus Emira supercharged V6 manual, and you only want one car, I'd recommend the a 6 cylinder Supra manual.

Would you stretch for a Type R? Either FK8 or newest gen?

 

[kaj]

I don't understand why you would consider any of those cars over a GT4.
P.S. 4 cylinder caymens sound like dog poop.

 

[johnnyskids]

Would you stretch for a Type R? Either FK8 or newest gen?

Me personally? My ideal two car garage would be Acura Integra Type S and a manual Supra, but it’s a bit too much. But the Civic Type R would be pretty decent also, I just really want a powerful RWD sports car.

 

[Boataur]

I'm in a similar situation and I think we have somewhat similar tastes. I currently drive a 2022 Honda Civic Si and it by far is the best manual I have ever owned. It's rather hard to find great manuals nowadays. I'm coming from back to back performance VW's, which I felt had decent manuals, but just lacked a lot of the mechanical precision that Honda puts into their performance manuals.

I'm almost certainly going to buy a manual Supra. I have crossed off the current gen BMW M2, too ugly, too expensive, too heavy, don't need the rear seat (as I will keep my Civic as my daily driver), and the manual is just typical BMW poor.

I think you should likely cross the base model 718, you just aren't getting the full Porsche experience and I feel like you'd grow to regret that decision over time. Their manual is very good though and better than any other German manual out there. But without that fantastic 6 cylinder sound, it just doesn't feel or sound like a Porsche.

The older Boxster/Cayman are decent, I'm not sure if you'd like it more than the current manual Supra, but I wouldn't fault you for going that route.

I see that you are in Singapore, so I'm not overly familiar with what options you might have that we don't get in Canada, and that goes for comparable pricing.

For me personally the best attainable sports car out there right now is likely the Lotus Emira, but it just has pushed a bit too far outside my comfort level for spending.

With how much you love your Civic Type R, have you thought about keeping it and just adding a fun RWD vehicle instead of putting all your eggs in the Supra basket? If the rumors are true and Toyota puts the 3 cylinder turbo from the GR Yaris/Corolla into their GR86, that could give you a great second vehicle to pair with your Civic Type R. It'll have around 300hp, be light, have a unique sound as it's a 3 cylinder, and a decent manual to boot.

Getting back to the Supra. I test drove an automatic 2021 6 cylinder version and it certainly had more than enough power to keep someone entertained. But I did prefer the 2023 Subaru BRZ on the back road section of the test drive. But I'm attributing it to the lack of a manual in the Supra I drove.

So in summary, if you can't afford a new 6 cylinder Porsche or the Lotus Emira supercharged V6 manual, and you only want one car, I'd recommend the a 6 cylinder Supra manual.

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