2023 A90 Supra manual vs 718 Cayman vs 981 GT4 3.8

[Boataur]

I had a 2019 Si and I agree that the shifter and clutch were both terrific. I then went to a GLI, and again agree that the shifter was good but not precise. I personally like the shifter on my Supra better than the Si, and I find the clutch take up to be very good as well. This car is incredibly easy to drive.

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[kaj]

Speaking of shifters, I once had an 2000 Integra Type R. I haven't driven anything that shifted as well. Honda engineering at it's best. I've also had a 2006 Mitsubishi Evolution. It obviously wasn't as good but I had a euro shift assembly and solid bushings, so felt gated. It was awesome in it's own way. Felt 100% mechanical and positive.
There's a lot to be said about how a car allows you to operate it.

 

[digicidal]

I remember when I went from my ~300K mile SiR (front clip swapped 91 CRX) to a brand new 350Z many years ago...

Nothing makes you appreciate how nearly perfect Honda manuals are until you drive something else. It's a shame they don't make more RWD/AWD options.

 

[Lorre]

It wasn’t a manual, but I did take a base 718 Cayman on a long test drive years ago. Honestly, it was pretty boring driving around town. Gearing was a little too long even with the PDK, and the engine was completely gutless down low. Reving it out was fun though, and I’m sure it’d be great on a back road. Didn’t like it as a potential all rounder. What was telling to me was how much more fun my VW GTI at the time was when I hopped back in it after the test drive.

After that test drive I immediately went and drove a F87 M2C (auto). It was much more fun around town and a better all rounder IMO.

I'm surprised the gearing felt long even with a PDK, and the low end felt gutless considering it's gotta a modern 4 cylinder turbo motor with a pretty low kerb weight.

I was definitely considering the F87 M2C and might have gotten it if a good example came about at the right price. Power delivery around normal roads was more than sufficient and it's gotta raw and old school feel about it which is what I like. But after getting into the Supra (even though it was an auto that I tried) It just felt more of an occasion and more special inside.

 

[Lorre]

Found myself in a similar situation. Had a Lotus Exige V6 S but wanted something easier to live with. Personally I would never buy a 4 cylinder Cayman so that was never something I looked at but I did look at/drive the 981 GT4 before buying the Supra. The problem with the 981 GT4 is exactly as you say, they are pretty slow and there isnt much you can do about it. The gearing is whack as well. I guess changing the final drive would help a lot though. In my case I went with a Manual Supra... So far, no regrets, engine feels much stronger than my V6 Exige or the GT4. The sound is a bit disappointing but other than that I am finding it hard to fault the car.

So it's not just me then. I think it will shine much brighter on a track/open road. I think I might like the 718 GT4 might be much better with the 4.0L motor.

 

[Lorre]

I ALMOST sold my A91 with delivery miles for a 981 GT4.

Thankfully I drove my NA M3 over to the dealership where I got to test drive the GT4.

The 981 ain't it.

Chassis, shifter, brakes and suspension = Great

Engine = Nah

M2C is the compromise car for you in this case. If you need backseats effectively coming from a Type R.

The manual Supra, even though you can't test drive them new, was the better bang for buck compared to both of those cars.

The only 718 to consider is a GTS 4.0 or a GT4.

Friend of mine just picked up a 718 GT4 and it's a rowdy but very different kind of car, you have to work for the power just like an older M car.

Agree on the chassis, shifter, brakes and suspension. Just felt it could do with more torque and doesn't rev up as fast as I would like. You are probably right. The GT4/GTS 4.0L might be the one to seriously consider. Have you driven your friend's 718 GT4?

I don't actually need backseats as I have another daily driver for that.

The Supra feels like the one that can sorta do it all. Enjoyable on streets out of the box and can be set up for track work if I do intend to.

 

[Lorre]

I'm in a similar situation and I think we have somewhat similar tastes. I currently drive a 2022 Honda Civic Si and it by far is the best manual I have ever owned. It's rather hard to find great manuals nowadays. I'm coming from back to back performance VW's, which I felt had decent manuals, but just lacked a lot of the mechanical precision that Honda puts into their performance manuals.

I'm almost certainly going to buy a manual Supra. I have crossed off the current gen BMW M2, too ugly, too expensive, too heavy, don't need the rear seat (as I will keep my Civic as my daily driver), and the manual is just typical BMW poor.

I think you should likely cross the base model 718, you just aren't getting the full Porsche experience and I feel like you'd grow to regret that decision over time. Their manual is very good though and better than any other German manual out there. But without that fantastic 6 cylinder sound, it just doesn't feel or sound like a Porsche.

The older Boxster/Cayman are decent, I'm not sure if you'd like it more than the current manual Supra, but I wouldn't fault you for going that route.

I see that you are in Singapore, so I'm not overly familiar with what options you might have that we don't get in Canada, and that goes for comparable pricing.

For me personally the best attainable sports car out there right now is likely the Lotus Emira, but it just has pushed a bit too far outside my comfort level for spending.

With how much you love your Civic Type R, have you thought about keeping it and just adding a fun RWD vehicle instead of putting all your eggs in the Supra basket? If the rumors are true and Toyota puts the 3 cylinder turbo from the GR Yaris/Corolla into their GR86, that could give you a great second vehicle to pair with your Civic Type R. It'll have around 300hp, be light, have a unique sound as it's a 3 cylinder, and a decent manual to boot.

Getting back to the Supra. I test drove an automatic 2021 6 cylinder version and it certainly had more than enough power to keep someone entertained. But I did prefer the 2023 Subaru BRZ on the back road section of the test drive. But I'm attributing it to the lack of a manual in the Supra I drove.

So in summary, if you can't afford a new 6 cylinder Porsche or the Lotus Emira supercharged V6 manual, and you only want one car, I'd recommend the a 6 cylinder Supra manual.

I think you're right. I'm considering the 718 base cayman manual partly because of the rave reviews it's got and I might be a bit swayed in that sense. Although I've not driven a base cayman and I don't think it's bad in any way, I don't think I would be happy with the 4 cylinder motor eventually.

Yes, I have thought about keeping the Type R and getting a cheaper RWD. It's a unique situation over here in Singapore. Car prices are just shooting up and I honestly think cars like the Supra or even the cayman might be priced out of my range in the future. And if the rumors are just rumors, I might miss the boat of getting something I want within my affordability in the next few years.

We have a pretty wide range of sports cars to choose from, but they are hardly ordered in manual versions and due to the tax system here, cars like the Emira 3.5 are way more expensive than a Cayman or Supra.

Before test driving any of these, it was in this order:

F87 M2C manual
Supra 6MT
718 Cayman manual

718 GT4s are a bit out of my price range, but one particular 981 GT4 has been on the market for a long time but isn't in the best condition.

After the trying some of them out, the Supra seems to be my first choice now.

Decisions decisions decisions....

 

[djmad]

Anyone has any experience with a base 718 cayman manual?

I've driven both a manual and PDK base 718 cayman. Took them on road trips from Arizona to Vegas and back.

The gearbox on the Porsche is definitely more refined IMO and handles better (I feel like I can enter & exit turns faster) probably due to the engine location. What I noticed the most is the clutch feel. In the manual cayman it's definitely more aggressive and engages near the bottom whereas the Supra engages near the top (more beginner friendly). As for the shifter it's similar to the Supra where the throws are short.

However, the Supra seems a bit more fun due to the torque and how quickly you can whip out the rear end (w/ VSC off). If you have the funds, I'd think a GT4 would be super fun but the consumables and maintenance is another story.

 

[alan7467]

I'm surprised the gearing felt long even with a PDK, and the low end felt gutless considering it's gotta a modern 4 cylinder turbo motor with a pretty low kerb weight.

I was definitely considering the F87 M2C and might have gotten it if a good example came about at the right price. Power delivery around normal roads was more than sufficient and it's gotta raw and old school feel about it which is what I like. But after getting into the Supra (even though it was an auto that I tried) It just felt more of an occasion and more special inside.

The gearing is too long for even the PDK 718 base model IMHO. A 2.0 turbo 4 like that needs pretty short gearing to not feel dead down low. It's both a negative and a positive depending on what you like. It certainly makes the top end more entertaining than a lot of turbo cars.

I’m also at high altitude. So off boost 4 cylinders can all feel slow here.

I often still consider the F87 as well, but agree that the Supra feels like much more of an occasion.

 

[johnnyskids]

I had a 2019 Si and I agree that the shifter and clutch were both terrific. I then went to a GLI, and again agree that the shifter was good but not precise. I personally like the shifter on my Supra better than the Si, and I find the clutch take up to be very good as well. This car is incredibly easy to drive.

Yeah I went from a MK7 Golf R manual to a manual 2020 GLI, then because the market was crazy I flipped it for a Civic Si. Loved the Golf R but never warmed up to the GLI. The Civic Si is my first Honda, I think it’s a much better match for my personality. I can only imagine how good the Type R and Type S are, but I really just want a RWD manual sports car (not many to choose from nowadays).

 

[johnnyskids]

I think you're right. I'm considering the 718 base cayman manual partly because of the rave reviews it's got and I might be a bit swayed in that sense. Although I've not driven a base cayman and I don't think it's bad in any way, I don't think I would be happy with the 4 cylinder motor eventually.

Yes, I have thought about keeping the Type R and getting a cheaper RWD. It's a unique situation over here in Singapore. Car prices are just shooting up and I honestly think cars like the Supra or even the cayman might be priced out of my range in the future. And if the rumors are just rumors, I might miss the boat of getting something I want within my affordability in the next few years.

We have a pretty wide range of sports cars to choose from, but they are hardly ordered in manual versions and due to the tax system here, cars like the Emira 3.5 are way more expensive than a Cayman or Supra.

Before test driving any of these, it was in this order:

F87 M2C manual
Supra 6MT
718 Cayman manual

718 GT4s are a bit out of my price range, but one particular 981 GT4 has been on the market for a long time but isn't in the best condition.

After the trying some of them out, the Supra seems to be my first choice now.

Decisions decisions decisions....

I don’t think your market is unique in that cars and sports cars in particular, are going up in prices. Heck even my Civic Si, bought in April 2022, at 2.99% financing, today the same exact car is $4,500 more and over 7% interest.

The problem I think you will find with a base model Cayman is that you will have a looooong wait to order a lower spec car, if you find a base Cayman on a lot you will find they all have expensive options. If you are going to buy a brand new Cayman, forget about the base model and try and find a T version. Think of it like a base Cayman with a value performance package and likely the best bet on ownership enjoyment. Options are very expensive on Porsche, and that’s why I like the Supra because the car is basically loaded from the get go.

 

[Lorre]

Ok, so after a fair bit of consideration, I made an appointment with the Toyota sales rep and handed over my credit card for a 2023 Supra manual.

I was leaning more towards the M2C because of the S55 engine as it's supposedly an M engine as opposed to the B58. But as the saying goes, 'First impression counts.' I can't deny that the moment I saw the car and I lowered myself into the driver's seat and tried the controls I found myself liking the Supra a bit more than the others. It just feels more special.

I'll be collecting it in about 3 weeks time! Exciting times ahead!

 

[Schang105]

Ok, so after a fair bit of consideration, I made an appointment with the Toyota sales rep and handed over my credit card for a 2023 Supra manual.

I was leaning more towards the M2C because of the S55 engine as it's supposedly an M engine as opposed to the B58. But as the saying goes, 'First impression counts.' I can't deny that the moment I saw the car and I lowered myself into the driver's seat and tried the controls I found myself liking the Supra a bit more than the others. It just feels more special.

I'll be collecting it in about 3 weeks time! Exciting times ahead!

How r u liking ur new Supra? Congrats on ur purchase OP! Share pics when u can. I don't know what kind of roads u have around u, but maybe can rev the engine outside shopping malls and pick up some girls lol.

 

[FLtrackdays]

If you have the funds, I'd think a GT4 would be super fun but the consumables and maintenance is another story.

This is pretty impressive for a BMW, not bad at all.

Ok, so after a fair bit of consideration, I made an appointment with the Toyota sales rep and handed over my credit card for a 2023 Supra manual.

Congrats Please track her at least once! Soooooo much fun

 

[Lorre]

Congrats Please track her at least once! Soooooo much fun

Thank you!

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