2023 Toyota GR Supra Manual Review Thread!!!

[Sub-MkV]

Should of been 3 pedals from release date… they could of up charged for the auto. What a sad time, most people bitching about slow don’t even know how to drive a manual, nothing beats a clutch dump and getting some smoke

Upcharging for the auto would've been completely stupid considering the take rate for both transmissions would be like 75/25 in favor of the auto. The transmission that folks aren't buying in larger margins should be the one with the upcharge as a business case to justify its existence rather than make a auto only sports car. After early adopters(like you) of the 2023 Supra manual buy the car the hype of the manual will wane in this particular car by the 2024+ models going forward and they had to spend more money to reconfigure the center tunnel among other things.

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[Sub-MkV]

This.

Unfortunately the MKV community is made up mostly of early adopters who ended up in an auto. And that auto is the greatest.. just ask them. Interestingly I’ve never seen any one with the “insert city traffic” or “been driving manual for 20 years and I’m over it” or “aUtOs ArE FaStEr” bullshit when discussing a manual only car, ala the Type R.

I wonder how different these conversations would be if the Supra was manual only.. as it should be.

If the Supra was manual only it would've failed at a catastrophic level worse than Mk4 and probably worse than the S2000 which was a massive sales disaster. The Civic Type R can afford to be manual only because the bread and butter Civics which the platform is based on sells in big numbers to the masses with mostly automatic gearboxes.

 

[Joker328]

Wow, this thread has gone completely off the rails. Anyway, here is more fuel for the fire:

 

[xkyo23]

Upcharging for the auto would've been completely stupid considering the take rate for both transmissions would be like 75/25 in favor of the auto. The transmission that folks aren't buying in larger margins should be the one with the upcharge as a business case to justify its existence rather than make a auto only sports car. After early adopters(like you) of the 2023 Supra manual buy the car the hype of the manual will wane in this particular car by the 2024+ models going forward and they had to spend more money to reconfigure the center tunnel among other things.

I' m not a business guy or in the business of selling cars so your probably right? what im tryna say is they could of sold 75/25 from the beginning with 25% (or even less) being manuals. Not sure what ya tryna say with early adopters like me but i can tell you from my purchase experience the dealerships will not be able to fulfil all their manual demands this year unless toyota start pumping them 6 speeds out like hot cakes. what i also intended to say is all these salt boys continuously validating the auto is faster which im sure it is, but the reality is the deeper pocket is going to win or electric. It be your own kinds that always be suppressing each other instead of being happy theres options under the same platform to expand the same namesake.

anyways... to promote the thread, the shifting experience in my hundreds of miles of roaming around town has been amazing. For reference, i learned manual on a 350z, then drove a 370z, moved on to a sti, and m4. So i understand the BMW rubber feeling, the supra does have those characteristics but its a very nice welcomed one in my view. Best way for me to describe is if you ever had one of those giant rubber band balls you made in class and bounced it hard but it came back to the palm of your hand dead center, thats how the supra shift feels like. Not loose like the STI short shifter, not notchy and sound broken like the Zs, or rubbery but not confident inspiring like the BMW.

 

[BMWAF]

The new Supra is in fact the hardtop version of the quite pleasant BMWZ4. So aside from body panels, there isn't much Toyota about the car save for tuning”

Umm.. you just glossed over these two sentences you quoted which are actually 100% accurate. Bias is everywhere, especially in the eye of the beholder!

 

[BMWAF]

If the Supra was manual only it would've failed at a catastrophic level worse than Mk4 and probably worse than the S2000 which was a massive sales disaster. The Civic Type R can afford to be manual only because the bread and butter Civics which the platform is based on sells in big numbers to the masses with mostly automatic gearboxes.

There's a lot of assumptions there and I sincerely doubt the validity of all of them. For one, Toyota has plenty of bread and butter cars to cover any poor Supra profits. Secondly, car sale disaster stories are usually a lot more compicated than a transmission choice!

In my inconsequential (and lets face it, unimportant) opinion, all ICE performance cars should be manual because once they're gone, they're gone. Properly gone.

Those of us who value (and by value I do not mean "can drive") manual, know that we have limited time left to enjoy these cars so buying an automatic when manuals are available is just.. well.. mind boggling.

 

[kappa_md]

Umm.. you just glossed over these two sentences you quoted which are actually 100% accurate. Bias is everywhere, especially in the eye of the beholder!

yup I have my own biases that’s for sure. But I’m not an automotive-motor journalist that people look up to reading & expecting there shouldn’t be one. What’s the point reading into their reviews if they are biased to begin with? Get my point?

 

[BMWAF]

yup I have my own biases that’s for sure. But I’m not an automotive-motor journalist that people look up to reading & expecting there shouldn’t be one. What’s the point reading into their reviews if they are biased to begin with? Get my point?

Ha! I do, but journalism is mostly opinion pieces nowadays. I take everything I read with a grain of salt and don't even get me started on YouTubers!

 

[Sub-MkV]

There's a lot of assumptions there and I sincerely doubt the validity of all of them. For one, Toyota has plenty of bread and butter cars to cover any poor Supra profits. Secondly, car sale disaster stories are usually a lot more compicated than a transmission choice!

In my inconsequential (and lets face it, unimportant) opinion, all ICE performance cars should be manual because once they're gone, they're gone. Properly gone.

Those of us who value (and by value I do not mean "can drive") manual, know that we have limited time left to enjoy these cars so buying an automatic when manuals are available is just.. well.. mind boggling.

Think about what you're saying? Toyota has had many bread and butter cars when the MK4 failed financially and the nameplate was out of commission for 20 plus years. Honda did as well when the S2000 failed yet we didn't get a 2nd gen because unlike the CTR the S2000 shared nothing with other Honda's to justify shared costs spread across platforms. Mazda was smart by comparison for having two transmission choices for the Mx5 along with a platform shared with the Rx8. A massive company like Toyota decided to do two sports cars with two different companies because they knew that if they failed the sting would'nt be as harsh by doing it all by themselves. They learned from past experiences(MR2 and Supra) so I can't ever fault them. Also automatics were trash in the 90's by comparison to the last 12 years.

You seem to think like an enthusiast who only care about your needs which is the needs of the few vs the many. As an enthusiast I try to think rational about why companies do what they do. I never liked the idea of companies like Porsche making non sports car but I understand why they had to do it. I personally think the Mk5 should've had both transmissions from the start but making it manual only would've made things worse to the point BMW would've probably backed out of the deal.

 

[BMWAF]

Think about what you're saying? Toyota has had many bread and butter cars when the MK4 failed financially and the nameplate was out of commission for 20 plus years. Honda did as well when the S2000 failed yet we didn't get a 2nd gen because unlike the CTR the S2000 shared nothing with other Honda's to justify shared costs spread across platforms. Mazda was smart by comparison for having two transmission choices for the Mx5 along with a platform shared with the Rx8. A massive company like Toyota decided to do two sports cars with two different companies because they knew that if they failed the sting would'nt be as harsh by doing it all by themselves. They learned from past experiences(MR2 and Supra) so I can't ever fault them. Also automatics were trash in the 90's by comparison to the last 12 years.

You seem to think like an enthusiast who only care about your needs which is the needs of the few vs the many. As an enthusiast I try to think rational about why companies do what they do. I never liked the idea of companies like Porsche making non sports car but I understand why they had to do it. I personally think the Mk5 should've had both transmissions from the start but making it manual only would've made things worse to the point BMW would've probably backed out of the deal.

I like cars. I like to drive them. If that makes me an enthusiast, so be it. I don't care about a car's "heritage" or its brand or how many cars are sold or which designer was responsible. If it's a great car, who gives a shit.

And this whole nameplate thing is ridiculous.. it's just marketing. There is no such thing as a real Supra.. it's just a car that Toyota has chosen to carry the name because.. marketing. If the bean counters thought it would sell better called the Toyota Fast As Fuck, they would've called it that.. And I would've bought it.

As for the manual thing, I just think there is a charm to driving a manual that cannot be replaced by an auto or a DCT. Ever. I don't care how many paddles they add to it or how many tenths quicker it is. It's just not for me. Ever.

 

[zrk]

I like cars. I like to drive them. If that makes me an enthusiast, so be it. I don't care about a car's "heritage" or its brand or how many cars are sold or which designer was responsible. If it's a great car, who gives a shit.

And this whole nameplate thing is ridiculous.. it's just marketing. There is no such thing as a real Supra.. it's just a car that Toyota has chosen to carry the name because.. marketing. If the bean counters thought it would sell better called the Toyota Fast As Fuck, they would've called it that.. And I would've bought it.

As for the manual thing, I just think there is a charm to driving a manual that cannot be replaced by an auto or a DCT. Ever. I don't care how many paddles they add to it or

1000%

how many tenths quicker it is. It's just not for me. Ever.

0%

 

[BMWAF]

0%

Unfortunately, if we take this argument to its logical conclusion, it is not unreasonable to suggest that eventually a fully automatic (robotic) car that just requires a push button to go really fast will likely be faster than any human operated system.

And then we all lose.

 

[zrk]

Unfortunately, if we take this argument to its logical conclusion, it is not unreasonable to suggest that eventually a fully automatic (robotic) car that just requires a push button to go really fast will likely be faster than any human operated system.

And then we all lose.

Isn't that exactly what delay boxes are?

Being a drag racer is more about being a mechanic than about anything else.

 

[BMWAF]

Isn't that exactly what delay boxes are?

Which begs the question: At what point do technological driver aids spoil the fun?

 

[Captain_Kirk]

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