A90 Supra life cycle: Incremental updates? New variants coming? What's next?

[Mikias]

Good info, but gotta respect Toyota. Good things come to those who wait.

@PerformanceSound Low key, I get it. How about this, per your insights for the upcoming model year:

In the year 2024, if I was sitting in the newest Supra on sale at the time, and I wanted to yawn and stretch, is there a good chance I would be able to fully extend my arms above my head?

Thanks
(From someone who almost bought an A91 MT and is now considering a C7Z but who still wants a Supra, especially one that has a 6MT and enough room to reach for the stars )

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[AayVeee]

targa seems super unrealistic given the development costs and how late into the production cycle we are. hoping @PerformanceSound can give us insight into the facelift changes and what we can expect

 

[KahnBB6]

Didn't someone with info from the BMW Z4 info side of things mention that a minor revision to the B58D would possibly include both direct and port injection sometime before both cars ended production?

Perhaps I misinterpreted what I had read and no, sorry, I couldn't even begin to find the thread it was posted in. Maybe that holds water? Maybe not? I don't know.

Probably not GRMN related but such a change would be welcome on the regular 3.0 Supras.

.....

A targa version has always been a request almost as much as the manual transmission.
More options and variations are ALWAYS better for special models. I know nothing to tell but that's certainly a big request from people.

However I'd just hope that IF it were to be added to the order sheets it weren't the 90's all over again with 90% of the Supra 3.0's being targa while the 2.0's suddenly become the majority of factory hardtops available.

That was often the case with North American MKIV allocations (most U.S. Turbos were targa with far fewer Turbo hardtops while NA's were more often hardtops... while in Japan *most* customers direct ordered their MKIV Supra Turbos in hardtop trim).

It should be an option for those who want it so long as it doesn't become optioned on the majority of allocated U.S. new Supra 3.0's (as happened in the 1990's).

 

[GRMan]

Didn't someone with info from the BMW Z4 info side of things mention that a minor revision to the B58D would possibly include both direct and port injection sometime before both cars ended production?

Perhaps I misinterpreted what I had read and no, sorry, I couldn't even begin to find the thread it was posted in. Maybe that holds water? Maybe not? I don't know.

Probably not GRMN related but such a change would be welcome on the regular 3.0 Supras.

.....

A targa version has always been a request almost as much as the manual transmission.
More options and variations are ALWAYS better for special models. I know nothing to tell but that's certainly a big request from people.

However I'd just hope that IF it were to be added to the order sheets it weren't the 90's all over again with 90% of the Supra 3.0's being targa while the 2.0's suddenly become the majority of factory hardtops available.

That was often the case with North American MKIV allocations (most U.S. Turbos were targa with far fewer Turbo hardtops while NA's were more often hardtops... while in Japan *most* customers direct ordered their MKIV Supra Turbos in hardtop trim).

It should be an option for those who want it so long as it doesn't become optioned on the majority of allocated U.S. new Supra 3.0's (as happened in the 1990's).

It's the B58TU2

Some key takeaways

1. DI + PI
2. Intercooler is a lot bigger
3. Redesigned intake ports and combustion chambers
4. Electronically controlled Vanos variable camshaft timing system

BMW B58 Inline Six Receives Second Technical Update - BimmerLife

 

[GRMan]

You guys will not be disappointed.

OK, I will ask in a differently way. Will the MY24 Supra narrow down the performance delta to the S58 M2 vs MY23 Supra?

 

[KahnBB6]

It's the B58TU2

Some key takeaways

1. DI + PI
2. Intercooler is a lot bigger
3. Redesigned intake ports and combustion chambers
4. Electronically controlled Vanos variable camshaft timing system

BMW B58 Inline Six Receives Second Technical Update - BimmerLife

That is it! Thank you!

 

[Marsone]

That is it! Thank you!

This new b58 also includes a mild hybrid system, which would increase weight, complexity, and cost. I’m interested to see how the community would react to that. That being said, an a90 with that engine and zf8 could prob get to 60 in 3.5 seconds in ideal conditions, and that’s pretty cool.

 

[BMWAF]

That is it! Thank you!

The question is will this be the MY24 update or will this be the fabled Japan only GRMN?

 

[AayVeee]

is it easy for BMW to incorporate manual transmission with this mild hybrid B58?

 

[mmspider]

Didn't someone with info from the BMW Z4 info side of things mention that a minor revision to the B58D would possibly include both direct and port injection sometime before both cars ended production?

That would be awesome news. I know Ford does this with their 5.0L V8 engine. In my opinion its the best way to do it.

 

[KahnBB6]

The question is will this be the MY24 update or will this be the fabled Japan only GRMN?

I don't think that a B58 update with direct and port injection (and presumably a little more power...?) would constitute a GRMN Supra. That's just not enough to sufficiently wow people and earn the badge. Great for the regular Supra 3.0 if it happens though.

Whatever the GRMN will be it has to have much more than that going for it.

That said I'd like to know as much as you do.

 

[BMWAF]

I don't think that a B58 update with direct and port injection (and presumably a little more power...?) would constitute a GRMN Supra. That's just not enough to sufficiently wow people and earn the badge. Great for the regular Supra 3.0 if it happens though.

Whatever the GRMN will be it has to have much more than that going for it.

That said I'd like to know as much as you do.

Respectfully, I disagree.

Now admittedly I haven't been paying much attention but doesn't the GR Yaris and the GRMN Yaris have the exact same engine; putting out the exact same power figures? Unless there is some non-compete agreement between BMW and Toyota (which there very well may be), I think it is a far more logical proposition that we will see a targa before we see a full engine swap!

Here's my reasoning:

1. A targa will sell in greater numbers. This car, like every other car, is about making money. The small number of people who want more power just aren't worth the effort. Sorry. There's far more regular regular people interested in a targa than there are track focused rich kids. And yes, that's why the automatic came out first - more people were likely to buy it because driving a manual is a skill not all people have. Deal with it.

2. If the Yaris is anything to go by, GRMN is about exclusivity and halo factor and not actually putting additional power into the hands of the average buyer. Look at the bullshit Morizo edition. I know the fanboys will cry but Toyota doesn't care about you. Just like the bullshit A90/A91 standard in the US. It's about money and pretend exclusivity, not actual increased performance. And beyond this, the Yaris proves the unwritten rule that Japanese manufcaturers always reserve something special for Japan only.

3. A targa has actually been built.. b y Toyota. Apart from baseless rumors, there is zero hard evidence Toyota has entertained using an S58, let alone actually engine swapped the Supra.

4. Not really a valid point, but I'm pretty sure GRMN is pronounced GERMAN which is kind funny considering the Supra's underpinnings.

Of course, I could be wrong.. and often am.. and I know there are some good counter arguments, but I think at the very least, my reasoning here is pretty sound.

 

[StevesMK5]

BMW mind set from what I see is the chassis on the mkv should accommodate all engines in the b58-s58 engine family. just like other new BMW cars. Toyota swapped engines in 2021 like it was nothing. mt transmission option in 2023. For example, BMW x3 and x5 a few other models use these b58 engines based on trim and can accommodate s58 painlessly. the car is due for a power bump option. Imo S58 is the elephant in the room.

 

[mkivalex]

https://www.motor1.com/news/653961/toyota-supra-electric-successor-report/amp/

 

[Ryanthetemp]

https://www.motor1.com/news/653961/toyota-supra-electric-successor-report/amp/

“Rumors of a Supra GRMN have been swirling around for years and yet there's no sign of the spicy derivative”

* Author proceeds to state information like it’s fact*

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