Analysis, Comments & Reactions from the Web about the new Supra

[JasonO]

I’m glad we are making progress here.

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[Z8AKU]

These claims and/or assertions here about someone or multiple people contacting Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH to question their relationship with Toyota in regards to the development and engineering phases of the 2ZJ-GTE motor are absolutely preposterous.

The first post I could find online of anyone stating or challenging that Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH wasn't involved in the 2JZ-GTE development is dated from 2011 on the Supra Forums here:

https://www.supraforums.com/threads/help-with-2jz-history-origin.641663/

Yet, here we have a link dated from June 6, 2007 stating the following;

"The 2JZ-GTE was outsourced to German firm Johann A. Krause Maschinenfabrik GmbH to refine and make suitable for use in the Japanese Grand Touring Car Championship "JGTC" which required the motor to be homologated in a production car. The Engine was to power the fourth generation of the Supra sports car. It was based on the 2JZ-GE, but differed in its use of sequential twin turbochargers and the use of an intercooler."
http://mypowerofengine.blogspot.com/2007/06/toyota-jz-engine.html

And again here on October, 22, 2010
http://kp-gasket.blogspot.com/2010/10/toyota-2jz-gte-engine.html

Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH was acquired through an acquisition deal in 2006 and was moved under the umbrella of ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd. as a result (public information and documented under SEC). Therefore how could anyone as you have asserted here have contacted Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH directly in 2011 if the firm had been acquired and under ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd for 5 years prior? This debunks your claim in one swift blow alone with merit I might add.

http://www.krause.co.uk

More importantly how does anyone from the public simply make a call in to a major engineering firm they have no affiliation to and obtain sensitive information about their multi-billion dollar clients without the company breaking any NDA or NCC agreements that are almost always in place during development and engineering between two companies? Hint... they don't!

Let's assume someone did happen to call or email ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd back in 2011 asking if they were involved in the development or engineering of the 2JZ-GTE they most likely would have stated no if they did allegedly offer this information to begin with. As the company ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd and Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH were two separate companies prior to 2006. So technically, ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd didn't have any account with Toyota regarding the 2JZ-GTE development however, this doesn't discredit or disprove that Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH did.

There is more supporting evidence that would lead anyone with common sense that Toyota did in fact source out their 2JZ-GTE block for development and engineering to Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH then there is to debunk it. It's a known fact that Toyota has sourced some of their motors and has indeed utilized outside engineering firms for co-development on many of their platforms from other companies over the course of 55 years now.

The burden of proof lies on those who claim a contradiction. Where are these alleged phone call recordings, emails or letters from Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH stating they denied working with Toyota on the 2JZ-GTE?

 

[JasonO]

All this drama about the 2JZ’s mama.

 

[Z8AKU]

. . .

I cant even argue with you. Your information is so incorrect it's baffling.

You couldn't argue your way out of a wet paper bag, that's why you respond with thoughtless responses. The burden of proof lies on those who claim a contradiction. Where are these alleged phone call recordings, emails or letters from Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH stating they denied working with Toyota on the 2JZ-GTE?

These claims and/or silly assertions here about someone or multiple people contacting Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH to question their relationship with Toyota in regards to the development and engineering phases of the 2ZJ-GTE motor are absolutely preposterous.

The first post I could find online of anyone stating or challenging that Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH wasn't involved in the 2JZ-GTE development is dated from 2011 on the Supra Forums here:

https://www.supraforums.com/threads/help-with-2jz-history-origin.641663/

Yet, here we have a link dated from June 6, 2007 stating the following;

"The 2JZ-GTE was outsourced to German firm Johann A. Krause Maschinenfabrik GmbH to refine and make suitable for use in the Japanese Grand Touring Car Championship "JGTC" which required the motor to be homologated in a production car. The Engine was to power the fourth generation of the Supra sports car. It was based on the 2JZ-GE, but differed in its use of sequential twin turbochargers and the use of an intercooler."
http://mypowerofengine.blogspot.com/2007/06/toyota-jz-engine.html

And again here on October, 22, 2010
http://kp-gasket.blogspot.com/2010/10/toyota-2jz-gte-engine.html

However here is the nail in the coffin for people like you who are still wet behind the ears. Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH was acquired through an acquisition deal in 2006 and was moved under the umbrella of ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd. as a result (public information and documented under SEC). Therefore how could anyone have contacted Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH directly in 2011 if the firm had been acquired and under ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd for 5 years prior?

http://www.krause.co.uk

More importantly how does anyone from the public simply make a call in to a major engineering firm they have no affiliation to and obtain sensitive information about their multi-billion dollar clients without the company breaking any NDA or NCC agreements that are almost always in place during development and engineering between two companies? Hint... they don't!

Let's assume someone did happen to call or email ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd back in 2011 asking if they were involved in the development or engineering of the 2JZ-GTE they most likely would have stated no if they did allegedly offer this information to begin with. As the company ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd and Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH were two separate companies prior to 2006. So technically, ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd didn't have any account with Toyota regarding the 2JZ-GTE development however, this doesn't discredit or disprove that Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH did. Meanwhile idiots like you like to sit back from behind a screen with such arrogance and condescending tones to assume no one will challenge your assertions on subjects like this. Ha!

There is more supporting evidence that would lead anyone with common sense that Toyota did in fact source out their 2JZ-GTE block for development and engineering to Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH then there is to debunk it. It's a known fact that Toyota has sourced some of their motors and has indeed utilized outside engineering firms for co-development on many of their platforms from other companies over the course of 55 years now.

 

[Z8AKU]

Because Toyota isn't going to produce something that says they made themselves. Did they produce a document saying they designed the exterior or interior, or a document saying they engineered the chassis and suspension? No because they aren't Marc Jacobs.

Yes they do moron. What planet have you been living on? Even the latest Lexus commercials spout off about how they designed and what materials they use on their Lexus LC500 models as well as their RC-F models. Jesus Christ!

We aren't talking about Yamaha, we are talking solely about Johann krause GmbH. Strawman. You're talking to the wrong person if you think I blindly support "my iconic movie car"

If the claims that Toyota used Johann Krause GmbH for engineering and development weren't true don't you think one of their many publicists would address the allegations and lay to rest a rumor? Why would anyone just make up a rumor like this? There is nothing to gain from it. You people don't think much do you? Hello Mcfly! Think Mcfly, think.

 

[Z8AKU]

All this drama about the 2JZ’s mama.

Misinformed and ignorant nation of zombies. No wonder the liberals have gotten away with murder this long. Too stupid for their own good.

 

[jm6k]

Well that was a hell of a leap.

 

[Z8AKU]

You're blinded by your own ignorance. Its actually spectacular how terrible you are at forming an argument backed by nothing other than a disproved Google search. Dont believe everything you read on the internet.

Far from the contrary. You have objected but have not substantiated your position with anything, and you haven't disproved shit from Shinola.

Wrap your little insect brain around this one and get back to me when you can refute with something other than responding with mindless and useless opinions about my online persona.

These claims and/or assertions here about someone or multiple people contacting Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH to question their relationship with Toyota in regards to the development and engineering phases of the 2ZJ-GTE motor are absolutely preposterous.

The first post I could find online of anyone stating or challenging that Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH wasn't involved in the 2JZ-GTE development is dated from 2011 on the Supra Forums here:

https://www.supraforums.com/threads/help-with-2jz-history-origin.641663/

Yet, here we have a link dated from June 6, 2007 stating the following;

"The 2JZ-GTE was outsourced to German firm Johann A. Krause Maschinenfabrik GmbH to refine and make suitable for use in the Japanese Grand Touring Car Championship "JGTC" which required the motor to be homologated in a production car. The Engine was to power the fourth generation of the Supra sports car. It was based on the 2JZ-GE, but differed in its use of sequential twin turbochargers and the use of an intercooler."
http://mypowerofengine.blogspot.com/2007/06/toyota-jz-engine.html

And again here on October, 22, 2010
http://kp-gasket.blogspot.com/2010/10/toyota-2jz-gte-engine.html

Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH was acquired through an acquisition deal in 2006 and was moved under the umbrella of ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd. as a result (public information and documented under SEC). Therefore how could anyone have contacted Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH directly in 2011 if the firm had been acquired and under ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd for 5 years prior?

http://www.krause.co.uk

More importantly how does anyone from the public simply make a call in to a major engineering firm they have no affiliation to and obtain sensitive information about their multi-billion dollar clients without the company breaking any NDA or NCC agreements that are almost always in place during development and engineering between two companies? Hint... they don't!

Let's assume someone did happen to call or email ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd back in 2011 asking if they were involved in the development or engineering of the 2JZ-GTE they most likely would have stated no if they did allegedly offer this information to begin with. As the company ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd and Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH were two separate companies prior to 2006. So technically, ThyssenKrupp System Engineering Ltd didn't have any account with Toyota regarding the 2JZ-GTE development however, this doesn't discredit or disprove that Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH did.

There is more supporting evidence that would lead anyone with common sense that Toyota did in fact source out their 2JZ-GTE block for development and engineering to Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH then there is to debunk it. It's a known fact that Toyota has sourced some of their motors and has indeed utilized outside engineering firms for co-development on many of their platforms from other companies over the course of 55 years now.

The burden of proof lies on those who claim a contradiction. Where are these alleged phone call recordings, emails or letters from Johann Krause Maschinefabrik GmbH stating they denied working with Toyota on the 2JZ-GTE? Post 'em up.

 

[Z8AKU]

Some of you diehard MKIV fans want to discredit the history of Johann Krause GmbH firm for having a part in the development of the 2JZ-GTE motor but fail to provide any evidence whatsoever to support some silly tale of someone from the Supra Forums calling into a Johann Krause in 2011 when the company had already been bought out by Thyssenkrupp 5 years prior. The biggest bullshit to ever hit the Supra community.

Of course people want to safeguard the purity of the famed 2JZ-GTE and God forbid that they discover the Germans had a hand in the development and engineering in their prized work horse of an engine. What's there to be worried about? That's a good thing as Germans invented the combustion motor anyway. What better people to have a hand in the development of your car's motor than a nation of men who created it in the first place duh!

I grow tired of the stupid rumors and this whole 2JZ fanaticism needs to take a back seat for fuck's sake. It's a good motor we get it. But damn, here we are 27 years later and people are still bench racing that motor to everything new that comes out and it's fucking old. Give it a rest. LOL

 

[Matador]

Well. This thread escalated quickly...

unsubbed.

 

[justbake]

Yes they do moron. What planet have you been living on? Even the latest Lexus commercials spout off about how they designed and what materials they use on their Lexus LC500 models as well as their RC-F models. Jesus Christ!

That’s not the same thing at all.

If the claims that Toyota used Johann Krause GmbH for engineering and development weren't true don't you think one of their many publicists would address the allegations and lay to rest a rumor? Why would anyone just make up a rumor like this? There is nothing to gain from it. You people don't think much do you? Hello Mcfly! Think Mcfly, think.

Where are these publications?

Feel free to provide a source that doesn’t repeat the same sentence I posted earlier.

You’re attacking me as a MKIV fanboy whose opinion wouldn’t change, but I’m here open to change my opinion yet you can’t even provide me a credible source.

 

[JasonO]

Misinformed and ignorant nation of zombies. No wonder the liberals have gotten away with murder this long. Too stupid for their own good.

And there it is.

I have no clue what the murderous liberal zombies have to do with this, but hey, maybe I eat brains and need to hide a bunch bodies.

You do know the saying about when you feel that everyone around you is an asshole right?

BRAINS!

 

[XtremeMaC]

Holy hell. Seems I completely ignored this topic for a long while. Things escalated so quickly.

Sounds like someone needs to create a personal blog and rant about the engine there or join the guys over at SF.

My personal opinion: I'm in automotive industry. There are so many decisions, trials, outsourcing, external consultations... No matter what position you hold in the company unless you were in/directly involved in these or have 1st, close 2nd hand info, you can only have limited "educated" guesses, which I'll be bashed for, but who cares?
After development ends, even the engineers barely remember the cumbersome steps they took to get there. People here trying piece together a puzzle of history whilst calling names... just funny.

 

[Z8AKU]

That’s not the same thing at all.



Where are these publications?

Feel free to provide a source that doesn’t repeat the same sentence I posted earlier.

You’re attacking me as a MKIV fanboy whose opinion wouldn’t change, but I’m here open to change my opinion yet you can’t even provide me a credible source.

It was claimed that someone called Johann Krause firm in 2011 and spoke to someone there that allegedly denied any involvement with Toyota or the 2JZ-GTE development when questioned about the publicized statements all over the internet. I never asserted or made any claims that Johann Krause did or didn't have involvement. I'm pointing out that whomever made such silly claims that Johann Krause didn't are full of shit. Johann Krause was acquired by Thyssenkrupp AG in 2006 so whomever stating that they called in or emailed back in 2011 couldn't have possibly spoke to anyone within Johann Krause firm as they had been bought out 5 years prior. So the evidence is very clear here.

1. We have many claims of such an involvement between Toyota with Johann Krause from many sources all over the internet.
2. We have historical evidence that Toyota has indeed sourced out their motors and various parts for co-development before and even have done so on several model Supras prior to even the A80 MKIV.
3. We have evidence that Johann Krause went out of business in 2006 that debunks the claim that someone spoke to them in 2011 and obtained a statement from them that they had no involvement.
4. We have evidence that Johann Krause engineered many other various auto manufactures motors and parts for years prior to 2006 and were indeed involved in many auto manufactures race engine developments especially in the early 90's and there are tons of news articles all about that history.
5. Not one person has shown evidence that substantiates that Toyota solely developed and engineered the 2JZ-GTE and most have known for years that the origin of the JZ line motors have been from the 3M GT motor from Yamaha.

Now then where is your evidence that supports what you think? Do you believe the 2JZ-GTE was solely developed and engineered by Toyota? Then please by all means nows your chance to prove it. You have an entire forum that is watching and eagerly awaiting these answers.

The floor is yours. I'll be waiting for your response. Make sure you do your homework first.

 

[Viselord]

Don't mind me. I'm just waiting for this:

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