Can you help me diagnose a log?

[razorlab]

You can absolutely make more than 500nm/368lbft without an xHP flash, if that is what is being eluded to here.

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[mkv_ppf]

If you have the 383hp version then there is something wrong.
The factory spread should be within the 5% limit, i.e. in the range 360-400 HP crank.
The BMWs are more like +5%, so let's say you should have about 400HP without tune (I don't want to start any discussion about WHPs from dynos with optimistic readings here!)
What I can see from your log is just a small plus, but a Stage 1 should be stronger ( +30HP and only in the upper range).
That's why I have a stupid question: Is it possible that you don't use xHP or some other transmission tune?
Because in your protocol there are 3 torque values, one is different from the other two. I created a chart for you with the values from your log.
There you can see the two values. I think the orange one is what you should have. That would be around 680 Nm and 472 HP@6200rpm (that's what I would expect from a BM3 on your engine ).
The blue line corresponds almost 1:1 to the values that I generated from your log in my previous post ( I mean the dyno chart). There is a peak of 432HP@6200 and my log told 431@6080,
As you can see, the torque seems to be limited in the 500 Nm range.
So I would guess that your tuner is trying to produce more power but your TCU is limiting this.
Is it possible to flash back to Stage 0 (~Stock) in BM3? I would be really interested to see what a standard log looks like.

I’m not using any transmission tune actually, any benefits other than faster shifting?

As for the stock tune on the bm3 it feels like it emulate a stock tune and not the original one because it feel much less powerful then the real stock one.

Next week when I’ll get back to my car I’ll send another log like you’ve asked

 

[kfer]

@kfer am pretty sure I am making more than 600 Nm at the clutch but that's what the log says. Plus my maf pretty much stays pegged out at 1020 kg/hr while in boost.

Sure you can do a lot more then 500NMm without xHP. You could even try to do more the 750Nm but it would lead to a slip.
The limiter sits at about 550NM (?) , but the official specification of your gearbox is 510 NM.
Therefore I'm pretty sure, that BMW will not go over that value ( or at least not significantly).
My Z4 e.g. send exactly 510Nm @3334rpm with the stock software.

The problem is that platforms like BM3, MHD, MGFlasher, etc. can only overwrite one part, the so-called calibration part and not the software part of the DME .
In order for the tune to remain "smooth", they have to use tricks.
The first is torque limitation. If they want to produce more power, they have to misinform the transmission to avoid the 550 Nm (?) limit.
But sooner or later this leads to problems because the transmission receives significantly higher torque than expected. however the line pressures are prepared for the value that the TCU gets.
Result: slip or increased wear.
I also have a hybrid turbo (without WMI, on RON100) and it was a really hard battle (over 9 revisions) to get a custom tune where the torque values were correct.
So you can make a way over 750Nm even if your torque value suggest to be at 600NM. And I would bet you do it with Upgradeturbo + WMI. ( You should be way over 600Hp)
But we can determine approximately how much power you have from a simple log.
(But I also bet you have already seen the 10D000 "Combustion engine torque limitation" code.)

The values with the MAF are still interesting to me. The AFR values should be calculated from the MAF and it should not be limited. But it should be measured in g/s and I could imagine that an internal conversion results in it ending up at 1020 (it's close to 1024 ), so it's maybe just a display error.

Now more and more tuners offer the option to choose Manual/xHP before flash if you have a TCU tune. The flag is used to send the actual or at least higher torque values to the TCU. That's why I asked the topic creator if it wasn't possible in his case.
And the other reason is that a strange limit code appears exactly when the torque goes way over 500NM, and that is exactly the point where the ignition correction begins .
Beside that he has other limitation codes too, so there I would bet again on the 10D000 code.

 

[kfer]

I’m not using any transmission tune actually, any benefits other than faster shifting?

As for the stock tune on the bm3 it feels like it emulate a stock tune and not the original one because it feel much less powerful then the real stock one.

Next week when I’ll get back to my car I’ll send another log like you’ve asked

For me the benefit of xHP ( or any transmission tune) is not the faster shifting (however it's really a bit faster), but the chance to have my transmission with me for a longer time.
The transmission in the Supra/Z4/M340i is a ticking timebomb.
Sure, it holds more than specified, but the key is proper line pressure (that's the force that compresses the clutches).
Without TCU tune you can't go higher then the TCU limit. Or you can go higher if the numbers to the TCU are incorrect ( so it operates with lower line pressure as it should be).
The tuner will always say, don't worry, the pressures are already built up from 3000rpm and nothing bad will happen after that, it is not a problem if you drive with incorrect line pressures.
But it is... they aren't particularly interested in your gearbox.
It's no coincidence that many people report transmission problems.

 

[mkv_ppf]

For me the benefit of xHP ( or any transmission tune) is not the faster shifting (however it's really a bit faster), but the chance to have my transmission with me for a longer time.
The transmission in the Supra/Z4/M340i is a ticking timebomb.
Sure, it holds more than specified, but the key is proper line pressure (that's the force that compresses the clutches).
Without TCU tune you can't go higher then the TCU limit. Or you can go higher if the numbers to the TCU are incorrect ( so it operates with lower line pressure as it should be).
The tuner will always say, don't worry, the pressures are already built up from 3000rpm and nothing bad will happen after that, it is not a problem if you drive with incorrect line pressures.
But it is... they aren't particularly interested in your gearbox.
It's no coincidence that many people report transmission problems.

Do you know anything about drifting with xhp? I do a lot of drifting events and heard that the clutches are always engaging while drifting
Im not that familiar with the software so I don’t really know if it’s true

 

[razorlab]

For me the benefit of xHP ( or any transmission tune) is not the faster shifting (however it's really a bit faster), but the chance to have my transmission with me for a longer time.
The transmission in the Supra/Z4/M340i is a ticking timebomb.
Sure, it holds more than specified, but the key is proper line pressure (that's the force that compresses the clutches).
Without TCU tune you can't go higher then the TCU limit. Or you can go higher if the numbers to the TCU are incorrect ( so it operates with lower line pressure as it should be).
The tuner will always say, don't worry, the pressures are already built up from 3000rpm and nothing bad will happen after that, it is not a problem if you drive with incorrect line pressures.
But it is... they aren't particularly interested in your gearbox.
It's no coincidence that many people report transmission problems.

All of this is incorrect.

 

[7sstreet]

Sure you can do a lot more then 500NMm without xHP. You could even try to do more the 750Nm but it would lead to a slip.
The limiter sits at about 550NM (?) , but the official specification of your gearbox is 510 NM.
Therefore I'm pretty sure, that BMW will not go over that value ( or at least not significantly).
My Z4 e.g. send exactly 510Nm @3334rpm with the stock software.

The problem is that platforms like BM3, MHD, MGFlasher, etc. can only overwrite one part, the so-called calibration part and not the software part of the DME .
In order for the tune to remain "smooth", they have to use tricks.
The first is torque limitation. If they want to produce more power, they have to misinform the transmission to avoid the 550 Nm (?) limit.
But sooner or later this leads to problems because the transmission receives significantly higher torque than expected. however the line pressures are prepared for the value that the TCU gets.
Result: slip or increased wear.
I also have a hybrid turbo (without WMI, on RON100) and it was a really hard battle (over 9 revisions) to get a custom tune where the torque values were correct.
So you can make a way over 750Nm even if your torque value suggest to be at 600NM. And I would bet you do it with Upgradeturbo + WMI. ( You should be way over 600Hp)
But we can determine approximately how much power you have from a simple log.
(But I also bet you have already seen the 10D000 "Combustion engine torque limitation" code.)

The values with the MAF are still interesting to me. The AFR values should be calculated from the MAF and it should not be limited. But it should be measured in g/s and I could imagine that an internal conversion results in it ending up at 1020 (it's close to 1024 ), so it's maybe just a display error.

Now more and more tuners offer the option to choose Manual/xHP before flash if you have a TCU tune. The flag is used to send the actual or at least higher torque values to the TCU. That's why I asked the topic creator if it wasn't possible in his case.
And the other reason is that a strange limit code appears exactly when the torque goes way over 500NM, and that is exactly the point where the ignition correction begins .
Beside that he has other limitation codes too, so there I would bet again on the 10D000 code.

BM3 writes the whole entire DME and change software too not just tables/calibration. This is how they add all the crazy nice features called CustomROM that they released for things like map switching using the steering wheel buttons, flex fuel, antilag, etc.

 

[kfer]

BM3 writes the whole entire DME and change software too not just tables/calibration. This is how they add all the crazy nice features called CustomROM that they released for things like map switching using the steering wheel buttons, flex fuel, antilag, etc.

This depends on when your car was produced and which DME is equipped with it.
Since 2020/6 it's not so easy to do that. There are two unlock options: normal and custom. And yes, with custom you can also do mapswitching, remove limiters, etc.
This wasn't a problem before (before the DME lock), both BM3 and MHD had this option. BM3 was the first to make it possible on the newer models. MHD is now bringing it onto the market, but unfortunately DME is supposed to be cracked again by Femto to install the new version.

But I don't think the theme creator is on Custom ROM with all that features and limiter removals.
1. in this case he would make much more power
2. It would have no limit codes if the entire software area were adapted
I think BM3 is one of the best platforms and I doubt they would do something like that. An OTS Map should be clean and without any error codes (also not shadow codes) .
(By the way, I also wanted to start with BM3, but there are few tuners in Europe who deal with it - especially with CustomTune).

I also have a Femto unlock, so quoting his details:
"
- **** DME needs to be sent to us for the initial unlock ****
After that:
- Remote Software Update / Over-The-Air updates must be disabled by yourself because any official update will remove our unlock completely.
- Flashing is available with use of our own femto obd flasher beta ONLY (Purchased separately. If you want other flashers to work with our unlock - you'll have to ask their developers to add this option)
- Only map (calibration/swfk) area is available for OBD writing (*)
- We can flash asw (software/swfl) area only while your DME is at our labs upon your request (*)
- Another option (petrol only!): MGFlasher / MHD or Bm3 app (purchased separately) - you can flash your car using their phone app after our unlock. Please explicitly indicate if you wish to use this option. Check 'unlocking options' (below) for details.
- Prices are: EUR 750/each ECU for the M series cars, EUR 600/each ECU for others
- V8 Engines are eqipped with 2xECUs
- Shipping cost NOT included
- If we are taking you into our beta program, we'll be asking you to mention us (@femtoevo) in your upcoming Instagram posts/stories.

(*) If you're not quite sure what this means, please consult with your tuner/workshop.

Unlocking options:
1. Regular unlock - you can upload calibration (ONLY!) area using femto obd flasher beta (a), mgflasher (b), mhd (c) and bm3 (d) (CHOOSE ONE OF)

2. Custom unlock - requires preloading of custom code for each of the flashers (if applicable, such as torque limiter removal, map switching etc).
Currently we can preload:
- mgflasher custom code: app adjustable torque limiter patch;
- mhd: torque limiter removal patch;
- bm3/S58 engines only: CustomROM including map switching, flex fuel, antilag, in-dash ethanol content check on rpm gauge, etc;
- bm3/other engines: torque limiter removal patch.
WARNING! BM3 license + VIN MUST BE ACTIVATED PRIOR SENDING US YOUR CAR'S ECU. We won't be able to upload CustomROM code if your BM3 license is not activated and VIN of your car is not in their database.

"

 

[mkv_ppf]

This depends on when your car was produced and which DME is equipped with it.
Since 2020/6 it's not so easy to do that. There are two unlock options: normal and custom. And yes, with custom you can also do mapswitching, remove limiters, etc.
This wasn't a problem before (before the DME lock), both BM3 and MHD had this option. BM3 was the first to make it possible on the newer models. MHD is now bringing it onto the market, but unfortunately DME is supposed to be cracked again by Femto to install the new version.

But I don't think the theme creator is on Custom ROM with all that features and limiter removals.
1. in this case he would make much more power
2. It would have no limit codes if the entire software area were adapted
I think BM3 is one of the best platforms and I doubt they would do something like that. An OTS Map should be clean and without any error codes (also not shadow codes) .
(By the way, I also wanted to start with BM3, but there are few tuners in Europe who deal with it - especially with CustomTune).

I also have a Femto unlock, so quoting his details:
"
- **** DME needs to be sent to us for the initial unlock ****
After that:
- Remote Software Update / Over-The-Air updates must be disabled by yourself because any official update will remove our unlock completely.
- Flashing is available with use of our own femto obd flasher beta ONLY (Purchased separately. If you want other flashers to work with our unlock - you'll have to ask their developers to add this option)
- Only map (calibration/swfk) area is available for OBD writing (*)
- We can flash asw (software/swfl) area only while your DME is at our labs upon your request (*)
- Another option (petrol only!): MGFlasher / MHD or Bm3 app (purchased separately) - you can flash your car using their phone app after our unlock. Please explicitly indicate if you wish to use this option. Check 'unlocking options' (below) for details.
- Prices are: EUR 750/each ECU for the M series cars, EUR 600/each ECU for others
- V8 Engines are eqipped with 2xECUs
- Shipping cost NOT included
- If we are taking you into our beta program, we'll be asking you to mention us (@femtoevo) in your upcoming Instagram posts/stories.

(*) If you're not quite sure what this means, please consult with your tuner/workshop.

Unlocking options:
1. Regular unlock - you can upload calibration (ONLY!) area using femto obd flasher beta (a), mgflasher (b), mhd (c) and bm3 (d) (CHOOSE ONE OF)

2. Custom unlock - requires preloading of custom code for each of the flashers (if applicable, such as torque limiter removal, map switching etc).
Currently we can preload:
- mgflasher custom code: app adjustable torque limiter patch;
- mhd: torque limiter removal patch;
- bm3/S58 engines only: CustomROM including map switching, flex fuel, antilag, in-dash ethanol content check on rpm gauge, etc;
- bm3/other engines: torque limiter removal patch.
WARNING! BM3 license + VIN MUST BE ACTIVATED PRIOR SENDING US YOUR CAR'S ECU. We won't be able to upload CustomROM code if your BM3 license is not activated and VIN of your car is not in their database.

"

My car is 6/2020 with the 6 port
So it’s the 383 Hp version and I didn’t need to send the DME to femto.
My tune is OTS stage 1 with map switching, limit remover and etc

 

[kfer]

Do you know anything about drifting with xhp? I do a lot of drifting events and heard that the clutches are always engaging while drifting
Im not that familiar with the software so I don’t really know if it’s true

The 8HP has 5 clutches, some open and some closed - depending on the gear. Drifting is like driving with slipping tires, so yes, the clutches are closed.
If you need some info on xHP and generally how it works, read through their blogs :
https://www.xhpflashtool.com/blog/
There are some interesting articles e.g. about LinePressure vs. tuned cars ;-)
But you can email them if you have specific questions. They are very competent and helped me a lot and answered all my questions very fast (they supported me during my CustomTune process when I was struggling with different limit codes).

 

[kfer]

My car is 6/2020 with the 6 port
So it’s the 383 Hp version and I didn’t need to send the DME to femto.
My tune is OTS stage 1 with map switching, limit remover and etc

Then you are one of the lucky ones.
But if you have CustomROM with limiters removed and fully customized software, then you shouldn't have any limit codes, right? There is eg. code "4" at every gear change, which means that the gearbox requires less torque from the DME to be able to shift up cleanly (or to avoid a slip when declutching). However, I don't think BM3 has partially reprogrammed the TCU like xHP. I think they have rather removed the limiters to be able to work cleanly with the tuning.

Here you can see the codes :
https://ecutek.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/SUPPORT/pages/469270529/BMW+Limit+Flags+States

But upload the log in 4th gear if you have it, I would be really interested now what it shows.

 

[7sstreet]

This depends on when your car was produced and which DME is equipped with it.
Since 2020/6 it's not so easy to do that. There are two unlock options: normal and custom. And yes, with custom you can also do mapswitching, remove limiters, etc.
This wasn't a problem before (before the DME lock), both BM3 and MHD had this option. BM3 was the first to make it possible on the newer models. MHD is now bringing it onto the market, but unfortunately DME is supposed to be cracked again by Femto to install the new version.

But I don't think the theme creator is on Custom ROM with all that features and limiter removals.
1. in this case he would make much more power
2. It would have no limit codes if the entire software area were adapted
I think BM3 is one of the best platforms and I doubt they would do something like that. An OTS Map should be clean and without any error codes (also not shadow codes) .
(By the way, I also wanted to start with BM3, but there are few tuners in Europe who deal with it - especially with CustomTune).

I also have a Femto unlock, so quoting his details:
"
- **** DME needs to be sent to us for the initial unlock ****
After that:
- Remote Software Update / Over-The-Air updates must be disabled by yourself because any official update will remove our unlock completely.
- Flashing is available with use of our own femto obd flasher beta ONLY (Purchased separately. If you want other flashers to work with our unlock - you'll have to ask their developers to add this option)
- Only map (calibration/swfk) area is available for OBD writing (*)
- We can flash asw (software/swfl) area only while your DME is at our labs upon your request (*)
- Another option (petrol only!): MGFlasher / MHD or Bm3 app (purchased separately) - you can flash your car using their phone app after our unlock. Please explicitly indicate if you wish to use this option. Check 'unlocking options' (below) for details.
- Prices are: EUR 750/each ECU for the M series cars, EUR 600/each ECU for others
- V8 Engines are eqipped with 2xECUs
- Shipping cost NOT included
- If we are taking you into our beta program, we'll be asking you to mention us (@femtoevo) in your upcoming Instagram posts/stories.

(*) If you're not quite sure what this means, please consult with your tuner/workshop.

Unlocking options:
1. Regular unlock - you can upload calibration (ONLY!) area using femto obd flasher beta (a), mgflasher (b), mhd (c) and bm3 (d) (CHOOSE ONE OF)

2. Custom unlock - requires preloading of custom code for each of the flashers (if applicable, such as torque limiter removal, map switching etc).
Currently we can preload:
- mgflasher custom code: app adjustable torque limiter patch;
- mhd: torque limiter removal patch;
- bm3/S58 engines only: CustomROM including map switching, flex fuel, antilag, in-dash ethanol content check on rpm gauge, etc;
- bm3/other engines: torque limiter removal patch.
WARNING! BM3 license + VIN MUST BE ACTIVATED PRIOR SENDING US YOUR CAR'S ECU. We won't be able to upload CustomROM code if your BM3 license is not activated and VIN of your car is not in their database.

"

My only point for posting what I did is to respond that BM3 writes the whole dme as you said its just calibration. Also BM3 has had this for over 2 years and this Femto thing was their 2nd update they did since then. MHD has teased they’d do it since way back then too but never actually did it.

 

[kfer]

My only point for posting what I did is to respond that BM3 writes the whole dme as you said its just calibration. Also BM3 has had this for over 2 years and this Femto thing was their 2nd update they did since then. MHD has teased they’d do it since way back then too but never actually did it.

Yes, you're right. And I admit that I thought the topic creator was also using a regular unlock, which only allows calibration files.
But he has a Supra, where the unlock is not necessary at all.
MHD also has a MHD+ with custom ROM, but unfortunately does not work with the newer models (G-series), only with the F-series.
And they always promise that is coming for the G, but apparently they have technical problems.
BM3 is miles ahead, because it already works there.

But tuning takes place by changing the so-called calibration tables. DME uses these tables to get the necessary information to control the engine.
These are mostly in the SWFL part and there are additional calibrations that are in the SWFK part.
The so-called „calibration files“ are there to change some table values. Why is it necessary?
Because of course you don't develop a new DME Logic for every model. In principle, an M3 works no differently than a 320i, but the general conditions are of course different. And with the content of the tables you can change the conditions.

So the tuners basically have two options: they change very deep in the DME (it's complicated) or they change only the calibrations in the SWFK.
Or they make changes in both areas and call it CustomROM.
The CustomROM not only changes the SWFK, but also some tables in the SWFL part. This makes it possible to work with multiple maps.
So with a CustomROM you have the possibility to use several „calibration files“ (mapswitch) and to change some tables of these calibrations.
I quote BM3:
"Map Switching - On-The-Fly using steering wheel cruise control buttons. Flash the vehicle once and have access to 4 switchable maps on the steering wheel changing the calibration entirely from one map slot to the next"

But at the end of the day, we're both talking about calibrations.

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